Vrabel's Staff Discussion Thread (Discuss related news here)

[Huckleberry1]

This fanbase has hated every OC I can remember. Weis sucked, McDaniels sucked, Bob sucked, McDaniels sucked again, Patricia sucked (ok he did), Bob sucked again, AVP sucked.

Maybe the fans aren’t a good judge of who is and isn’t a good play caller lol?

I liked Weis and MacDaniels, I hated BOB. I have nothing against MacDaniels, and I’m not going to ***** about it if Vrabel picks him, I just don’t like the idea of changing systems. Let Maye master the system he’s in

 

[Stu Pidassle]

McDaniels said something interesting relative to his offense vs. the WC. He kept talking about the advantages and disadvantages and didn't really assess his as being much better than the WC, just different. BUT then at the very end he tossed in a hand grenade: he said that when it comes to playing late in a game in the playoffs and in championships, the ability of the QB to read and diagnose the defense is a huge advantage compared to the WC.

He made it seem like the only reason you'd run his system is a nitty-gritty moment in the playoffs when things get tight, and only then does it give you an added advantage.

This sounds like a good way to split the difference. Please bear in mind that my feeble understanding of the WC vs. EP is for discussion purposes only, LOL. WC is based on reacting during the play and therefore easier for the players to learn and execute. The downside is that good defenses can stop it at critical moments and the playoffs. The classic example is when BB was the Giants DC and stopped the 49ers from going for a threepeat. EP is based on pre snap recognition and is harder for players to learn and execute based. It puts tremendous pressure on the QB and WR/TEs see the field and react the same way. If executed well it is harder for defenses to stop. Using the simpler plays to more the ball and saving the more complicated plays for critical situations is the best of both worlds.

 

[Ring 6]

Lets have him learn Mandarin when he hasn't even mastered English.

And that explains why you are so off on this. It’s nothing close to that.
It’s more like let’s coach him with a guy with a New England accent instead of a southern accent.

 

[Huckleberry1]

At this point I would just worry about finding the best OC possible and having the team improve and grow on the offensive side.

Obviously a carousel of OCs would be bad for Maye's development, but we'll just have to see who Vrabel selects for OC and live with it. We're just posting opinions here. Now let's see how the ripple effect of the Vrabel choice affects the other top positions, OC, DC, etc.

I actually think the OL coach will also be a very important choice. Dante Scarnecchia was a huge part of why the Patriots dynasty flourished for two decades. He played as big a part as McDaniels imo in developing the talent to protect TB12.

I think all the coaches are important, and I was happy to hear Vrabel talking about developing players, because that’s what you have to do to become a great team. The draft was never Belichick’s strength, but developing players was.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Check out this draft class that Ryan took part in. And I'll be fair and disregard the obvious pick of Nabers.

Darn if only Nabers was available in this year's draft! What a stud he would be lining up on the outside as Maye's #1 target.

 

[Froob]

I liked Weis and MacDaniels, I hated BOB. I have nothing against MacDaniels, and I’m not going to ***** about it if Vrabel picks him, I just don’t like the idea of changing systems. Let Maye master the system he’s in

That’s kind of why I like Rees if he’s doing Browns system. But I wouldn’t keep him in same system if it’s going to really limit what we can do.

 

[Zuma]

And that explains why you are so off on this. It’s nothing close to that.
It’s more like let’s coach him with a guy with a New England accent instead of a southern accent.

It's not accent's if the terminology is literally completely different. McDaniels is a superior OC but this isn't the matrix where Maye downloads knowledge...their WILL be a learning curve.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

Vrabel said it in 3 interviews just today - they're not going to quickly fill the coord's.
That means we're going to sit around on pins & needles waiting to hear the news leak in about who's coming and going.

Hopefully they have their targets in mind and this more of a procedural thing. There is no reason to raise attention by looking like the team is trying to circumvent the Rooney rules.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Hopefully they have their targets in mind and this more of a procedural thing. There is no reason to raise attention by looking like the team is trying to circumvent the Rooney rules.

They can't fill them quickly. Have to fulfill the Rooney rules or we will lose draft picks, etc.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Hopefully they have their targets in mind and this more of a procedural thing. There is no reason to raise attention by looking like the team is trying to circumvent the Rooney rules.

F*ck the Rooney Rule, and f*ck the big mouths who cry about it. Treat it like the charade it is, bring in a few candidates so they get their names out there, then take the guys you actually want.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

I think it's a pile of ****. EP >>> WC in the playoffs...c'mon

Kinda helps when the QB running in in the playoffs was Tom Brady.

At the end of the day the players executing the scheme are more important than the scheme itself. Despite the prevailing wisdom and my earlier post, there are plenty of examples of WC teams winning the super bowl. An elite QB and unstoppable weapons are the magic formula that is difficult to find.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

F*ck the Rooney Rule, and f*ck the big mouths who cry about it. Treat it like the charade it is, bring in a few candidates so they get their names out there, then take the guys you actually want.

Isn't that what they are doing? Vrabel sent the right message today, that doesn't mean that they aren't moving forward as fast as possible. Same as when the team brought in Vrabel as HC.

 

[RobertWeathers]

And that explains why you are so off on this. It’s nothing close to that.
It’s more like let’s coach him with a guy with a New England accent instead of a southern accent.

Thats not true.

Formations: Coryell, Walsh, and Earhardt-Perkins Offense Terminology

LOOKING BACK By John Turney We showed last week the personnel groupings in a three of the offensive systems that were used in the NFL. ...

nflfootballjournal.blogspot.com

 

[Uptown]

 

[upstater1]

This sounds like a good way to split the difference. Please bear in mind that my feeble understanding of the WC vs. EP is for discussion purposes only, LOL. WC is based on reacting during the play and therefore easier for the players to learn and execute. The downside is that good defenses can stop it at critical moments and the playoffs. The classic example is when BB was the Giants DC and stopped the 49ers from going for a threepeat. EP is based on pre snap recognition and is harder for players to learn and execute based. It puts tremendous pressure on the QB and WR/TEs see the field and react the same way. If executed well it is harder for defenses to stop. Using the simpler plays to more the ball and saving the more complicated plays for critical situations is the best of both worlds.

I also think of it as what happens when the defense guesses right and yet it's a play you got to have. How do you react on the fly? You're in the middle of a play. This is do or die. You can't move onto the next play. You need to do something now.

The WC would require you have a QB that can escape the pocket and make a broken play into something good, like Mahomes does.

But McD is thinking that in such a situation, your QB has options. He can move in the pocket and look for open areas reacting together with the WR or he can try to pull off a Mahomes.

 

[Zuma]

Thats not true.

Formations: Coryell, Walsh, and Earhardt-Perkins Offense Terminology

LOOKING BACK By John Turney We showed last week the personnel groupings in a three of the offensive systems that were used in the NFL. ...

nflfootballjournal.blogspot.com

I don't expect you to know but how hard would it be for McDaniels to change his terminology to match closer to WC. Maybe it's impossible...apples and oranges...IDK.

 

[Huckleberry1]

This sounds like a good way to split the difference. Please bear in mind that my feeble understanding of the WC vs. EP is for discussion purposes only, LOL. WC is based on reacting during the play and therefore easier for the players to learn and execute. The downside is that good defenses can stop it at critical moments and the playoffs. The classic example is when BB was the Giants DC and stopped the 49ers from going for a threepeat. EP is based on pre snap recognition and is harder for players to learn and execute based. It puts tremendous pressure on the QB and WR/TEs see the field and react the same way. If executed well it is harder for defenses to stop. Using the simpler plays to more the ball and saving the more complicated plays for critical situations is the best of both worlds.

Andy Reid runs a west coast offense. They are a Dynasty.

 

[TommyD4207]

I don't expect you to know but how hard would it be for McDaniels to change his terminology to match closer to WC. Maybe it's impossible...apples and oranges...IDK.

It's apples and rocket ships. Especially considering the variants of the respective offenses. Both run a really old-school version of the offense (although McDaniels is a revision up from Weis, Van Pelt's a revision up from Walsh). If you brought someone in who had more of a hybrid approach, it might be easier.

 

[TomPatriot]

ROFL

The team had no one capable of making defensive play calls and no one to defvelop defensive game plans. Mayo refused to hire the doing those roles to continue as a DC

Belichick with the help of Belichick ran the Defense. Mayo thought that he was a defensive guru and that he and Covington could do the job. NOT!

None of this, whether true or not, refutes the fact that playcalling is overrated.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

Andy Reid runs a west coast offense. They are a Dynasty.

Thanks for the news flash. Players > scheme