Vrabel's Staff Discussion Thread (Discuss related news here)

[Love The Drake]

They have to interview candidates for the Rooney rule before hiring him.

Pep Hamilton
Byron leftwich

On speed dial.

 

[RobertWeathers]

McDaniels said something interesting relative to his offense vs. the WC. He kept talking about the advantages and disadvantages and didn't really assess his as being much better than the WC, just different. BUT then at the very end he tossed in a hand grenade: he said that when it comes to playing late in a game in the playoffs and in championships, the ability of the QB to read and diagnose the defense is a huge advantage compared to the WC.

He made it seem like the only reason you'd run his system is a nitty-gritty moment in the playoffs when things get tight, and only then does it give you an added advantage.

Yep. I'm not advocating one system over the other. I think both are excellent.

i'm advocating for Drake Maye and what is needed to ensure his development and trajectory isn't stymied by needing to learn a new system and furthermore running a new system he may not ever be comfortable with.

I don't like the risk. That's really it.

 

[SlowGettingUp]

This just reminded me of an old thread here discussing it. Just found it: Excellent Article On The Patriots And Erhardt-Perkins

and the article that inspired it explaining the EP offense: » Speak My Language

Don't know if this is still true, but interesting if it is. No huddle lets you freeze defensive personnel if you have a favorable match-up.

Other teams have dabbled in the no-huddle, but they can’t commit to it like the Patriots can, for one simple reason: terminology. No team that uses the Coryell or true West Coast systems can adapt easily to a fully functional up-tempo no-huddle because, simply, they can’t communicate that efficiently.

 

[SlowGettingUp]

 

[Love The Drake]

Daboll didn’t want Vrabel coming in person to ask for permission.
I wonder if they will let their DC out of his contract as well?

 

[Ring 6]

Other way around. They did not decide to implement WC because of AVP. They brought AVP in because the org wanted to run WC.

Look, if you can guarantee Maye goes 4k yds, 100 passer rating, 35/10, 70% comp and they are 10-7 w/ Josh and EP, sign me up.

Until then I remain unconvinced Maye will not have a steep learning curve

I don’t agree with that. They hired AVP because they couldn’t find a real OC who Mayo and wolf could sell on working for them. We got the system by default. It's up to Vrabel now to determine what system we use, not be stuck in what Mayo stumbled into by default


You can’t guarantee he will do that with some unknown guy who keeps the AVP system going. He wasn’t close to it this year.
You think that a 4-13 system is better than anything less than 10-7?
A 190 yards per game, 1.25 Td per game, 1.5 td/int, 88 passer rating is better than any short of 235 ypg, 2 TD per game, 3.5 TD/int, 100 passer rating?

You are essentially saying you are so married to Van Pelts system that produced the 30th ranked scoring offense, 31st ranked total offense and worst passing offense in the NFL, that you have to guarantee it will do more than twice as good to replace it.

There is no real reason to think Maye wouldn’t easily adapt.

Why are you so intent on sticking to failure?

 

[RobertWeathers]

I don’t agree with that. They hired AVP because they couldn’t find a real OC who Mayo and wolf could sell on working for them. We got the system by default. It's up to Vrabel now to determine what system we use, not be stuck in what Mayo stumbled into by default


You can’t guarantee he will do that with some unknown guy who keeps the AVP system going. He wasn’t close to it this year.
You think that a 4-13 system is better than anything less than 10-7?
A 190 yards per game, 1.25 Td per game, 1.5 td/int, 88 passer rating is better than any short of 235 ypg, 2 TD per game, 3.5 TD/int, 100 passer rating?

You are essentially saying you are so married to Van Pelts system that produced the 30th ranked scoring offense, 31st ranked total offense and worst passing offense in the NFL, that you have to guarantee it will do more than twice as good to replace it.

There is no real reason to think Maye wouldn’t easily adapt.

Why are you so intent on sticking to failure?

I think the WC offense has been proven to be a pretty good offense. Don't you? Plus Maye already knows it.

Why do you keep bringing this back to AVP? It's like you think the WC is HIS system when it isn't.

 

[Ring 6]

Yep. I'm not advocating one system over the other. I think both are excellent.

i'm advocating for Drake Maye and what is needed to ensure his development and trajectory isn't stymied by needing to learn a new system and furthermore running a new system he may not ever be comfortable with.

I don't like the risk. That's really it.

He didn’t exactly thrive in van punts system.
He may never be comfortable with that one.
What he needs is the best coaching he can get. Spending a few weeks off season learning new terminology isn’t going to scare him into a corner.

 

[RobertWeathers]

He didn’t exactly thrive in van punts system.
He may never be comfortable with that one.
What he needs is the best coaching he can get. Spending a few weeks off season learning new terminology isn’t going to scare him into a corner.

Sure. Bring in the best OC for the WC out there. That way Maye isn't ****ing around learning a new offense.

What if EP isn't a fit? You just f-ed up your 3rd overall pick. Great.

 

[Ring 6]

I think the WC offense has been proven to be a pretty good offense. Don't you? Plus Maye already knows it.

Why do you keep bringing this back to AVP? It's like you think the WC is HIS system when it isn't.

I think the WCO is sometimes good and sometimes ****. AVPs version is ****.
I’d like nothing more than for him to unlearn everything about AVP.

There are more versions of the WCO than I can name. Bringing in a new coordinator is going to require him to learn a new system. Being distantly related because it sprang from the same start 50 years ago doesn’t really change that.

Whoever is the offensive coordinator needs to remove the AVP thought process from his head, and install a better one. It doesn’t really matter if the terminology changes too.


Plus McDaniels system shares a lot of concept with the WCO, but it is a better fit for Maye conceptually. The WCO is designed for weaker armed mobile Qbs who throw on the run a lot. Maye is best pushing the ball down the field from the pocket.

 

[Love The Drake]

Sure. Bring in the best OC for the WC out there. That way Maye isn't ****ing around learning a new offense.

What if EP isn't a fit? You just f-ed up your 3rd overall pick. Great.

Maye is smart AF was called the smartest person in the building by his QB coach last season. I’m sure whatever offense we install he will have a tight grasp on it.

 

[signbabybrady]

I think the WC offense has been proven to be a pretty good offense. Don't you? Plus Maye already knows it.

Why do you keep bringing this back to AVP? It's like you think the WC is HIS system when it isn't.

Can you elaborate on why you like the WC offense for Maye?

I saw a QB with skill but I didn't see a cohesive offense. Maye struggled to score in it and struggled to win. They ran almost nothing creative to take advantage of his rushing skills.

Brissett was even worse.

Maybe Maye will be better in WC with a better WC coach but based on one year I think it's equally as big a question wether that system was the right one for him or if he could benefit from a different one.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Can you elaborate on why you like the WC offense for Maye?

I like it for Maye because he already knows it. Too much risk to have a young QB learn a new offensive system. They are already changing the HC and OC on him (justly I may add)

If he was a rookie and Josh was here and he learned EP I would advocate not making him learn WC his second year w a new HC and new OC.

I saw a QB with skill but I didn't see a cohesive offense. Maye struggled to score in it and struggled to win. They ran almost nothing creative to take advantage of his rushing skills.

I think that has more to do with a ****ty OC, crappy positional coaches, horrible oline and weak at the skill positions.

Brissett was even worse.

Got he was awful.

Maybe Maye will be better in WC with a better WC coach but based on one year I think it's equally as big a question wether that system was the right one for him or if he could benefit from a different one.

IDK.

 

[Ring 6]

Sure. Bring in the best OC for the WC out there. That way Maye isn't ****ing around learning a new offense.

What if EP isn't a fit? You just f-ed up your 3rd overall pick. Great.

I totally disagree that the way to choose the best guy is to limit yourself to one school of thought. What if WCO isn’t a fit?it hasn’t been so far

I think his skill set is better for EP anyway in the generic description of the 2. Bit its more about how he is coached and what plays are called than what 50 year old system you want to associate it with.
.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Maye is smart AF was called the smartest person in the building by his QB coach last season. I’m sure whatever offense we install he will have a tight grasp on it.

Just because a player is smart that does not translate into being having a high football IQ.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I totally disagree that the way to choose the best guy is to limit yourself to one school of thought. What if WCO isn’t a fit?it hasn’t been so far

I think his skill set is better for EP anyway in the generic description of the 2. Bit its more about how he is coached and what plays are called than what 50 year old system you want to associate it with.
.

EP might be better for him. Then again it might not.

 

[signbabybrady]

I like it for Maye because he already knows it. Too much risk to have a young QB learn a new offensive system. They are already changing the HC and OC on him (justly I may add)

If he was a rookie and Josh was here and he learned EP I would advocate not making him learn WC his second year w a new HC and new OC.

I think that has more to do with a ****ty OC, crappy positional coaches, horrible oline and weak at the skill positions.

Got he was awful.

IDK.

You have no idea how much of it he actually knows well.

You think it was a ****ty coach who taught it to him.

You're not really making a very good case.

 

[Family]

McDaniels made it seem like the only reason you'd run his system is a nitty-gritty moment in the playoffs when things get tight, and only then does it give you an added advantage.

That's enough for me!

 

[jdlboot14]

Vrabel said it in 3 interviews just today - they're not going to quickly fill the coord's.
That means we're going to sit around on pins & needles waiting to hear the news leak in about who's coming and going.

 

[RobertWeathers]

You have no idea how much of it he actually knows well.

Seriously? He just spend 8 months in it and because of his knowledge in learning it allowed him to start. Based on his rookie year he seemed to do OK with it despite bad playcalling, middling WRs and a crap oline.

You think it was a ****ty coach who taught it to him.

I don't understand this sentence. AVP taught WC to him. McAdoo did as well. So did McCartney

You're not really making a very good case.

Thanks