The Case Against Eliot Wolf

[Grogan14]

In your deranged hatred of Bill Belichick, you totally missed what is being discussed.

I didn't say chosen by Wolf.

We were talking about evaluations.

And by the way, Caeden Wallace, Michael Jordan and Chuki Okorafor reinforce what a horrendous evaluator Wolf is.

Don’t forget “popcorn” Baker

 

[KCSVEN]

Yes you could franchise a second year, but it’s stupid.

Why? franchise tag him because it was the same cost of signing in long-term and he didn’t want to stay p, according to you, so you could’ve just made him stay another year on the money you were willing to pay him anyway.

Oh wait, they didn’t do that because they didn’t want to pay him

 

[Ring 6]

Why? franchise tag him because it was the same cost of signing in long-term and he didn’t want to stay p, according to you, so you could’ve just made him stay another year on the money you were willing to pay him anyway.

Oh wait, they didn’t do that because they didn’t want to pay him

No it wasn’t.
A second tag makes him the highest paid player at the position and keeps him for 1 year. 100% of that hits the cap.


It would have been 17.7 mill.
It would take up 17.7 mill on the cap.

He signed for 5 years 80 mill with a 4.5 mill first year hit.
The cap hit was 12.6 in 2 years and 26 in 3 years.

Tagging would be 17.7 for one and 39 for 2

It’s not at all the same.

 

[KCSVEN]

No it wasn’t.
A second tag makes him the highest paid player at the position and keeps him for 1 year. 100% of that hits the cap.


It would have been 17.7 mill.
It would take up 17.7 mill on the cap.

He signed for 5 years 80 mill with a 4.5 mill first year hit.
The cap hit was 12.6 in 2 years and 26 in 3 years.

Tagging would be 17.7 for one and 39 for 2

It’s not at all the same.

So you’re saying that if the Patriots offered that same contract to him by franchise tagging him and forcing his hand that he wouldn’t have taken it? If they offered him that same contract the year before he said no?
Not a single report that said there is no way he was signing with the Pats because it’s the only way he would’ve said no to the Pats offering that contract when he couldn’t go anywhere else
He would’ve taken it I don’t think that’s even a question. They could’ve kept them. They decided not to spend the money And in hindsight it was a mistake.

 

[Ring 6]

So you’re saying that if the Patriots offered that same contract to him by franchise tagging him and forcing his hand that he wouldn’t have taken it? If they offered him that same contract the year before he said no?
Not a single report that said there is no way he was signing with the Pats because it’s the only way he would’ve said no to the Pats offering that contract when he couldn’t go anywhere else
He would’ve taken it I don’t think that’s even a question. They could’ve kept them. They decided not to spend the money And in hindsight it was a mistake.

I’m saying the franchise tag is not the same cast as the contract he signed, as you claimed.

I don’t know what he would have said if the patriots made the same offer as the chiefs or did say if they did. We don’t know. We are not privy to the negotiations.

It is certainly possible that if they tagged him he would have taken the 17.7 and gone to free agency next year.
Everyone keeps saying free agents only care about winning and QBs so why would he stay after a 8-9 season with cam Newton?

There is not a single report that says belichick refused to pay him either.
As I said you are speculating.
Now you are claiming you know he wanted to stay here instead of go to KC to win SBs. Because you just know?

 

[KCSVEN]

I’m saying the franchise tag is not the same cast as the contract he signed, as you claimed.

I don’t know what he would have said if the patriots made the same offer as the chiefs or did say if they did. We don’t know. We are not privy to the negotiations.

It is certainly possible that if they tagged him he would have taken the 17.7 and gone to free agency next year.
Everyone keeps saying free agents only care about winning and QBs so why would he stay after a 8-9 season with cam Newton?

There is not a single report that says belichick refused to pay him either.
As I said you are speculating.
Now you are claiming you know he wanted to stay here instead of go to KC to win SBs. Because you just know?

Every report said BB didn’t like to pay interior lineman and felt they were replaceable,
He didn’t pay him, reports say he never offered what the Chiefs offered. The evidence is overwhelming so trying to argue against what is obvious because nobody involved specifically said that is a weird position to take. Yeah 1 % chance it was not what I say but I’ll take the 99% chance.

 

[Ring 6]

Every report said BB didn’t like to pay interior lineman and felt they were replaceable,
He didn’t pay him, reports say he never offered what the Chiefs offered. The evidence is overwhelming so trying to argue against what is obvious because nobody involved specifically said that is a weird position to take. Yeah 1 % chance it was not what I say but I’ll take the 99% chance.

Come on. Now you are citing reports about what people think bb liked?

As I said you are speculating.
You do not know if Thuney chose to leave or wanted to stay and would have stayed for the same money. You are guessing.


Look,here is the way I look at it. There are plenty of reasons to criticize anyone. Criticizing someone for 1 player not signing with them instead of any other of the 31 teams and saying the team could sign him if they wanted to and ignoring that it’s the players choice as well is just guessing in order to criticize without knowing the real facts.

There is far greater than a 1% chance that the OL who played with Brady and went to the SB his first 3 years winning 2 of them decided with Brady gone, coming off a losing season and having cam Newton as his QB would prefer to go to the team that just went to the last 2 SBs and had the best qb in the league. Which team would you choose?

 

[KCSVEN]

Come on. Now you are citing reports about what people think bb liked?

As I said you are speculating.
You do not know if Thuney chose to leave or wanted to stay and would have stayed for the same money. You are guessing.

Not guessing I’m analyzing all the data and adding that to common sense and coming to a rational conclusion. Your position is that Thuney was completely irrational or just never wanted to play in New England., I give that 1% chance

 

[Ring 6]

Not guessing I’m analyzing all the data and adding that to common sense and coming to a rational conclusion. Your position is that Thuney was completely irrational or just never wanted to play in New England., I give that 1% chance

Common sense says Thuney would rather play for the chiefs than the patriots.

You aren’t analyzing data, you are assuming.

Why would Thuney rather play for the 8-9 patriots with Cam Newton than the chiefs coming off back to back SBs with Patrick Mahomes.

Again the fake in your theory is you thinks it’s madden and you get anyone if you make the highest offer.

 

[PWRxWLF]

Common sense says Thuney would rather play for the chiefs than the patriots.

You aren’t analyzing data, you are assuming.

Why would Thuney rather play for the 8-9 patriots with Cam Newton than the chiefs coming off back to back SBs with Patrick Mahomes.

Again the fake in your theory is you thinks it’s madden and you get anyone if you make the highest offer.

You know how hard it is to sign a guy in Madden that doesnt want to play for you these days? Those free agents are haters!

 

[KCSVEN]

Common sense says Thuney would rather play for the chiefs than the patriots.

You aren’t analyzing data, you are assuming.

Why would Thuney rather play for the 8-9 patriots with Cam Newton than the chiefs coming off back to back SBs with Patrick Mahomes.

Again the fake in your theory is you thinks it’s madden and you get anyone if you make the highest offer.

This comment is nutty, you aren't even reading what I said. LOL

 

[Ring 6]

This comment is nutty, you aren't even reading what I said. LOL

Of course I am. You think Belichick didn’t want to pay Thuney just because that’s what you thin. You back it up with “everyone knows he won’t pay OL” You dismiss that where the player wants to play matters.

You literally gave a 1% chance that Thuney would rather play for a team coming off back to back SBs with Patrick Mahomes at qb than a team that went 8-9 and had Cam Newton at Qb.

 

[Ring 6]

You know how hard it is to sign a guy in Madden that doesnt want to play for you these days? Those free agents are haters!

Haha. It used to be you just kept upping the $$ and you would get them.

 

[captain stone]

Only a little bit more "internal development", mother****er?

2024: Most Reviled team in NEP history. The debate begins for second place now...

 

[captain stone]

Thuney chose to leave. You can’t force him to stay. I have very little doubt Belichick tried hard to keep him.

I do.

 

[Grogan14]

I do.

Belichick always thought he could easily repleace anyone who left. He always had a hard upper number in mind, if the ask exceeded that max he would let them leave.

 

[Pacific Coast Patriot]

Yet another WR we were often linked with was Jeudy, who I noticed after todays game finished with 1,229 yards on the dumpster fire Browns and made the Pro Bowl. He was available for a mere 5th & 6th round pick.

See in FA we have to grab guys like that, then we could have used those 2 higher picks we wasted on Polk and Baker to get O line help. Then we would have gone into this season with a solid receiver and a better o line.

Our front office sucks in the draft and they're just as inept in FA. But we fans should know our place, what do we know anyway.

 

[Ring 6]

Belichick always thought he could easily repleace anyone who left. He always had a hard upper number in mind, if the ask exceeded that max he would let them leave.

It’s not a matter of thinking a player is easily replaceable. It’s a matter of considering the entire roster and the cap. It’s about having discipline about the value of a player vs the cost.
Why would anyone pay more than they feel a player is worth? If you don’t set limits you have no plan.

 

[maust]

Belichick always thought he could easily repleace anyone who left. He always had a hard upper number in mind, if the ask exceeded that max he would let them leave.

That first sentence hardly rings true, you are mostly there with the rest of your statement. The Pats under Belichick most definitely negotiated with a hard number in mind for their ceiling on every contract. As far as 'letting' them leave goes, it would be more complete to say if they knew there was no hope of an agreement they'd move a guy if they thought they could beat his comp pick value in a deal. As for the idea BB 'always thought he could 'easily' replace anyone who left, Thuney is a great example of that not being the case. The Pats would never have franchised Thuney if Belichick thought he was 'easily' replaceable. Thuney's departure definitely speaks to Belichick absolutely being willing to die on the hill of what he was willing to pay for a player/position.

 

[Grogan14]

That first sentence hardly rings true, you are mostly there with the rest of your statement. The Pats under Belichick most definitely negotiated with a hard number in mind for their ceiling on every contract. As far as 'letting' them leave goes, it would be more complete to say if they knew there was no hope of an agreement they'd move a guy if they thought they could beat his comp pick value in a deal. As for the idea BB 'always thought he could 'easily' replace anyone who left, Thuney is a great example of that not being the case. The Pats would never have franchised Thuney if Belichick thought he was 'easily' replaceable. Thuney's departure definitely speaks to Belichick absolutely being willing to die on the hill of what he was willing to pay for a player/position.

Well said. Much better than I did.