Does anyone think there is a chance Mayo is one and done?

[mike_usagisan]

It's not surprising that defense that lost the best defensive mind in NFL history declined irrespective of who the next guy was. The problem is, there was no feasible way to keep Bill Belichick anymore. There's a better argument that we are in the mess largely because they wanted a happy medium of letting go of the problems that Bill brought but wanted to believe we could keep all the good stuff if we held onto all the leftovers.

This is right. If an organization is good and the HC is retiring, you promote from within. If the organization has gotten bad and you fire the HC/GM, you have to clean house. Not then promote all the lesser parts of the organization. That's just asking for problems.

 

[Family]

Vrabel is the best of the three, but honestly, he's not anything special either, I've made my opinion on him very clear. He looked good once with a loaded roster and he coaches to the level of the team.

Loaded roster?

His QB was Ryan Tannehill.

What team in modern football ever went anywhere with a QB like that?

They were the #1 seed at least once.

 

[Nunchucks]

Honestly the funny thing to me is that virtually everyone who was even a little honest with themselves knew this team was going to win about the same amount of games as last year. Nothing that's happened this year is remotely unexpected beyond Mayo sticking his foot in his mouth and being an overall idiot in press conferences. That aside, most people on here knew this was a lost season. The media always had us pegged as one of the bottom teams. The team makes a lot of the same stupid game losing mistakes they made over the last few years (especially last year). The defense losing Bill and getting banged up and naturally declining as a result is the only thing that wasn't entirely predicted (though it should have been)

Going into the season the number one goal was to get Maye NFL ready and everything else was after.

It's just another thing to expect something and then to have to live with it for 18 weeks.

There a difference between losing because of a lack of talent and losing because players are poorly coached. I see the offense losing because the players suck. Defense, it's about a lack of discipline, technique, communication. I.e., coaching

 

[Family]

There a difference between losing because of a lack of talent and losing because players are poorly coached. I see the offense losing because the players suck. Defense, it's about a lack of discipline, technique, communication. I.e., coaching

It can be both.

While lacking talent the offensive line doesn't seem to understand technique, and the receiver spacing is horrendous at times.

 

[Ross12]

Your generation is soft.

You should have lived the late 60's/early 70's.

Tell me why I should watch a team that isn’t even giving an effort?

If they were trying their best but just sucked I would be 100% behind them. I have a very hard time devoting a significant portion of my precious little free time to a team that largely is going through the motions every week and doesn’t care. If they don’t care, why should I?

 

[mike_usagisan]

It can be both.

While lacking talent the offensive line doesn't seem to understand technique, and the receiver spacing is horrendous at times.

It is definitely both, and you should improve on coaches the same way you improve on players. Find the core you build around and get rid of the ones who aren't part of the future.

 

[lancerman]

Loaded roster?

His QB was Ryan Tannehill.

What team in modern football ever went anywhere with a QB like that?

They were the #1 seed at least once.

Vrabel when he was winning had the best RB in football, AJ Brown who is probably considered one of the top 5 WR's in the league, Jonnu Smith at TE when everyone thought he was still good (and frankly he was only bad here), one of the top 10 lines with a pro bowl center, an All Pro DE in Jeffrey Simmons, an All Pro FS in Byard, two pro bowl level linebackers. They had All Pro and pro bowl level players in all 3 levels of the defense, a top line with pro bowl players there, a legendary RB and one of the top WR's in the league along with one of the better young TE's.

That's a stacked team. This is why I think Patriots fans are just name dropping Vrabel because they know who he is and saw him beat us a few times.

If the way to counteract how talented that team is to point to the non elite but very above average QB who had an above 100 passer rating in 2019 (led the league that year) and 2020, and was having career high completion percentages, career low interceptions numbers (2021 was the only year on the Titans he had more than 7 interceptions). And also led the league in yards per average 2019.... I really don't know what to tell you.

Like I said in another thread, Vrabel got fired for getting 6 wins on a much better team than the one we have now. There's zero reason to think he's doing better here with this ****show of a roster.

 

[Ross12]

Honestly the funny thing to me is that virtually everyone who was even a little honest with themselves knew this team was going to win about the same amount of games as last year. Nothing that's happened this year is remotely unexpected beyond Mayo sticking his foot in his mouth and being an overall idiot in press conferences. That aside, most people on here knew this was a lost season. The media always had us pegged as one of the bottom teams. The team makes a lot of the same stupid game losing mistakes they made over the last few years (especially last year). The defense losing Bill and getting banged up and naturally declining as a result is the only thing that wasn't entirely predicted (though it should have been)

Going into the season the number one goal was to get Maye NFL ready and everything else was after.

It's just another thing to expect something and then to have to live with it for 18 weeks.

Everyone knew that keeping the entire defensive roster intact, promoting one of the “co-DCs” to HC, and making the DL coach the new DC, would cause that same defensive roster to regress badly and forget how to play football?

I guess I must have missed those threads.

 

[Brotherblues]

If you aren’t firing him now then can’t reall fire any of the coordinator. Because who will come here knowing that there is a very high chance that Mayo will get fired and the new HC will clean house.

Fire him now instead of losing a year of Maye for nothing.

I don't know what's worse. Working under him when you know he's gone after a year, or the chance that he remains and you're stuck under him for longer?

Both options are massive repellants to any talented coordinator candidate.

 

[lancerman]

There a difference between losing because of a lack of talent and losing because players are poorly coached. I see the offense losing because the players suck. Defense, it's about a lack of discipline, technique, communication. I.e., coaching

The team was undisciplined last year it was just mostly on offense (and even before that we had embarrassing **** like Jacoby going rogue and lateralling to Mac Jones.

We are mostly because of lack of talent btw. The team is sloppy. But the reason we keep losing is because

1. Our line can't pass block or run block and are the worst in the league at both.
2. Our WR's statistically get the least separation in the league and one of them is the worst starters in the league by every metric.
3. The linebackers are a liability and always give up the middle of the field because they can't keep up.
4. Everyone aside from Gonzalez can be beat by a good WR, and even Gonzo gets burned every once in a while.
5. A kicker who misses routine kicks.

 

[Tunescribe]

There's a little revisionist to this though. Bill shot himself in the foot not having a d coordinator for a few years. That on top Patricia/Judge on offense really pissed a lot of fans and media off. Then when you talked to players, the players all gushed about Mayo as he was who they actually dealt with on the regular. And then we almost lost Mayo last year and the fans and media were pissed the **** off and there was a general perception that Bill didn't want to promote and give Mayo a title over Steve and it was causing an issue.

I remember a lot of the discussions on here about that and amongst other Pats fans on other sites during all of that. There was a lot of fire at Bill for how he handled both coordinator roles and the only one that was viewed highly was the one at risk of walking (might have been a good thing overall).

Nobody was really talking about a HC search at the time. This is also stuff that dated back well before Bill was fired.

There was an issue with not doing a real HC search at the time. But fans were generally split on that. Some didn't want Bill to leave, some wanted to see Mayo because he'd been popular for a few years, and some wanted something entirely divorced from the prior regime entirely. Mayo was sort of the least sexy pick that wouldn't ruffle feathers too much for people in both camps.

Mayo really didn't get the heat he's getting now until a bunch of press conferences in the pre season.

I don't recall anything regarding specifics of what Mayo brought to table defensively as co-DC with Steve. My sense is he was the go-between who conducted meetings because Steve wasn't good at commanding a room, but that Steve and BB did the nuts-and-bolts game planning. The latter is why Steve also called signals on game day -- he knew the tactical applications of what they strategized.

It was an odd arrangement that didn't say much about Mayo's grasp of the scheme, how to apply it and adjust on the fly. HOWEVER, Jerod's "relatability" with the players apparently had value where Steve fell short. This might explain a lot of what we're seeing now: a coach with great relationship skills who doesn't know as much as he should about Xs and Os and how to apply them.

 

[lancerman]

Everyone knew that keeping the entire defensive roster intact, promoting one of the “co-DCs” to HC, and making the DL coach the new DC, would cause that same defensive roster to regress badly and forget how to play football?

I guess I must have missed those threads.

If you thought losing Bill Belichick and also having the defense get a bunch of key injuries meant they would be the same, that's more of a you problem.

 

[sb1]

You said it not me!

 

[Ross12]

If you thought losing Bill Belichick and also having the defense get a bunch of key injuries meant they would be the same, that's more of a you problem.

So we expected to promote Bill’s staff and keep his system and his players but it would all fall apart? Interesting. Sounds like Bill was pretty important

 

[Family]

Tell me why I should watch a team that isn’t even giving an effort?

Drake Maye.

Part of the enjoyment of being a fan is watching your team develop even through the horrible years.

It was great with the Celtics. I'm sure Lions fans who watched every game those years are enjoying this more than locals who watched a guaranteed win by the Patriots every week for 20 years. Though that was fun too.

Besides. You'll watch.

 

[lancerman]

I don't recall anything regarding specifics of what Mayo brought to table defensively as co-DC with Steve. My sense is he was the go-between who conducted meetings because Steve wasn't good at commanding a room, but that Steve and BB did the nuts-and-bolts game planning. The latter is why Steve also called signals on game day -- he knew the tactical applications of what they strategized.

It was an odd arrangement that didn't say much about Mayo's grasp of the scheme, how to apply it and adjust on the fly. HOWEVER, Jerod's "relatability" with the players apparently had value where Steve fell short. This might explain a lot of what we're seeing now: a coach with great relationship skills who doesn't know as much as he should about Xs and Os and how to apply them.

People are saying that now because he's on their **** list. A year ago, two years ago, the story was "if you ask the players they all love Mayo and think he's the coordinator and Steve is doing something in the background".

Nobody was down on Mayo the last two years and claiming Steve was the real brains behind it. Hell Steve used to get more flack for being the coaches son and the players not really ever going to bat for him. And people were PISSED that Bill almost let the guy who was perceived as the best coordinator on the team go because his son needed a spot.

I'm not saying what you are saying ISN'T true. But it only really started becoming a narrative when Mayo got the HC job and now we all think he sucks.

 

[lancerman]

So we expected to promote Bill’s staff and keep his system and his players but it would all fall apart? Interesting

That's point.... it was a bad idea to think you would get rid of Bill and still try to find away to keep his defense intact because you kept his staff.

Bill was the brains behind the defense. Pure and simple. They tried to soften the blow of losing him in a way that never was going to work

 

[Ross12]

That's point.... it was a bad idea to think you would get rid of Bill and still try to find away to keep his defense intact because you kept his staff.

Bill was the brains behind the defense. Pure and simple. They tried to soften the blow of losing him in a way that never was going to work

Maybe I misunderstood your argument from the beginning then.

 

[Ross12]

Drake Maye.

Part of the enjoyment of being a fan is watching your team develop even through the horrible years.

It was great with the Celtics. I'm sure Lions fans who watched every game those years are enjoying this more than locals who watched a guaranteed win by the Patriots every week for 20 years. Though that was fun too.

Besides. You'll watch.

Love Drake, but it’s almost painful in a way seeing him shine alone surrounded by complacent losers. If anything I would be worried that one day I would tune in and he would also stop caring and start going through the motions himself. Save myself that trouble.

 

[Love The Drake]

People are saying that now because he's on their **** list. A year ago, two years ago, the story was "if you ask the players they all love Mayo and think he's the coordinator and Steve is doing something in the background".

Nobody was down on Mayo the last two years and claiming Steve was the real brains behind it. Hell Steve used to get more flack for being the coaches son and the players not really ever going to bat for him. And people were PISSED that Bill almost let the guy who was perceived as the best coordinator on the team go because his son needed a spot.

I'm not saying what you are saying ISN'T true. But it only really started becoming a narrative when Mayo got the HC job and now we all think he sucks.

He can be everyone’s friend and a great guy when he’s not backing the bus over your wriggling body im sure,

But what we see is someone who is throwing his players, staff under the bus,
What we are seeing is someone who didn’t know wind changed directions,
Or opted for a 68 yd FG as opposed to letting one of the most athletic strong armed QBs throw a pass,

He can’t adjust mid game, it doesn’t look like he’s coaching up players on the sidelines,
The facts are the team has regressed to a level of embarrassment we are the 90s Detroit lions after Barry left,

We are frustrating and wasting a franchise QB and Franchise CB,
If I’m Kraft I am really looking at this under a microscope and going how much time can I give this man? The answer should be no more,
He is ruining the team to the point coaches didn’t want to work for him this is publicized.
The current staff if he is retained will scatter like roaches when the light comes on if not the NFL college teams to have some sense of job security.

It’s incredibly Toxic.