What's happening with Kyle Dugger and Jon Jones and what it means...

[upstater1]

31 year old CB's are long in the tooth. Jones' career is coming to an end.

He was at free safety yesterday.

He replaced our FA signing and starting Free Safety Jaylinn Hawkin s

 

[Vindicate]

Two of our most dependable players are playing worse than they ever have.

In the last two weeks, the Patriots gave up 6 straight touchdowns with members of the defensive backfield completely out of position. We saw 2 guys defending trips right last week, we saw Jones isolated and burned for a TD when Dugger had to break down and cover two open WRs in the flat, we saw Dugger on the line with no deep safety. This week Jones took over free safety and he seemed hesitant and unsure of what he was supposed to be doing. Dugger made a bad read and missed the RB out of the backfield. It's been a mess.

What can you say when formerly dependable players are doing this?

Two years ago Kyle should have been in the Pro Bowl after making multiple pick 6s, causing fumbles for TDs, making so many hard hits behind the line and just wrecking teams.

Now he's playing worse than he did when he as a rookie.

The lazy take is to blame the players and say he was a bad signing (as if that matters when we're 50m under the cap).

During the game thread I heard about the lack of talent on defense. Whether or not that's true is irrelevant and besides the point. The bigger problem is that these same players, without Gonzalez out there, have played so much better in the recent past. That should be the focus. Not the talent level.

I was blaming Wolf for the poor signing of Jaylinn Hawkins who has been making bad reads constantly at Free Safety. Now I'm second guessing what I said after seeing Jon Jones back there. Now I'm thinking Hawkins might actually be a fine player but he's lost in all of this.

I'll entertain any theories except for talent level. If you want to say Brian Belichick is purposefully sabotaging the defensive backfield, then make a case. I'll listen to that before I listen to any arguments about talent.

It's coaching. They've adjusted the scheme outside of their player's strength. Duggar is playing out of his normal role. They're putting Gonzo on WR3 Robinson and running a zero blitz. Period. The talent could be better, but it's really the coaching. Peppers being out has had a cascading effect as well.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Bro's high maintenance. He's being paid top S money, but needs two other S's deep so he can linger around the LOS. As his snap count has gone up, his overall play has gone down. You don't need the stats geeks to back up that claim (even though they agree).

 

[Ring 6]

I'm being facetious. Wolf is the new Mac. Everything from the team sucking to the wind blowing over people's trashcans yesterday was his fault.

When he had 100 million, and 50 after resigning our own free agents, plus the 3rd pick in every round and the sole good decision he made with all of that was the no brainer to pick Maye, how can you not blame him.
Yes the coaching has been awful, but they start with 1 hand tied behind their back. When half the players on the forks don’t belong there, the other half will certainly have issues

 

[Patsfan1645]

Some of these same guys will be performing well on Bill's team next year

I dont know....Jonnu played better on Mike's team than on Bill's.

 

[captain stone]

...The lazy take is to blame the players and say he was a bad signing (as if that matters when we're 50m under the cap)...

During the game thread I heard about the lack of talent on defense. Whether or not that's true is irrelevant and besides the point. The bigger problem is that these same players, without Gonzalez out there, have played so much better in the recent past. That should be the focus. Not the talent level.

I'll entertain any theories except for talent level. If you want to say Brian Belichick is purposefully sabotaging the defensive backfield, then make a case. I'll listen to that before I listen to any arguments about talent.

Then I'm outta here, because I already know where you're trying to take this.


It's ALL of it, of course, including coaching And Yes Talent... But that doesn't fit your They Never Should've Fired Bill POV.

 

[h0c2000]

I dont know....Jonnu played better on Mike's team than on Bill's.

Both Mikes teams.

 

[upstater1]

Then I'm outta here, because I already know where you're trying to take this.


It's ALL of it, of course, including coaching And Yes Talent... But that doesn't fit your They Never Should've Fired Bill POV.

Interesting. I never said that. Wasn't thinking of it.

But here it is, it pops right in your head. That tells me that you know very well the value of coaching.

By the way-- many fans, maybe you (I'm speculating just like you did) may think that Mayo's inability is an aberration that will be addressed by finding any competent coach out there.

Living in Buffalo, I've seen the Bills go through the following coaches (after Levy left) before they found McDermott: Kay Stephenson, Wade Phillips, Gregg Williams, Mike Mularkey, **** Jauron, Perry Fewell, Chan Gailey, Doug Marrone, Rex Ryan.

18 seasons.

9 coaches.

Would you believe the Jets are even worse? And the Phins since Shula aren't doing so hot either.

The far greater likelihood is that Drake Maye will spend his entire career playing for the likes of a Chan Gailey than he will playing for someone like Sean McDermott.

 

[Real fan 02]

I blame Mayo way more right now than Wolf. Basically everyone is playing worse for Mayo than they did previously in their career not sure how you can skip the coach and blame the GM. If he Traded for Hannah Mayo would find a way to make him worse.

It's also the culture too.. loosing creates a loosing culture in any organization. We have become a team with loosing culture. As bad as things have been We are stuck with the HC and GM at least until next season.

 

[archstanton543]

It's also the culture too.. loosing creates a loosing culture in any organization. We have become a team with loosing culture. As bad as things have been We are stuck with the HC and GM at least until next season.

The Pats must be pretty good at archery with all the loose-ing going on.

 

[Real fan 02]

The Pats must be pretty good at archery with all the loose-ing going on.

Yep.. when you see guys lau and joking after an ass whooping.. tells you all you need to know.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Jones is declining. Would a permanent move to fs be beneficial? I know he played there when needed to from the injury situation and some mentioned he did well but i never really assessed. It would be nice to keep him around for his leadership on a team friendly deal but he can’t be any more than a cb4 at this stage or a safety.

 

[signbabybrady]

It's also the culture too.. loosing creates a loosing culture in any organization. We have become a team with loosing culture. As bad as things have been We are stuck with the HC and GM at least until next season.

I'm not so sure on that. If we end 3-14 and the next 5 weeks look like yesterday I think anything is on the table.

I don't think it will take much for them to buy a second season but something positive needs to happen in the next few weeks.

 

[Real fan 02]

I'm not so sure on that. If we end 3-14 and the next 5 weeks look like yesterday I think anything is on the table.

I don't think it will take much for them to buy a second season but something positive needs to happen in the next few weeks.

Next season it when the clock starts. I'm telling SBB.. RK won't pull the trigger.. go figure the best to ever do it got a 4 year window post brady.. Mayo's got til next season if not then see ya!

 

[PatsFan2]

Two of our most dependable players are playing worse than they ever have.

In the last two weeks, the Patriots gave up 6 straight touchdowns with members of the defensive backfield completely out of position. We saw 2 guys defending trips right last week, we saw Jones isolated and burned for a TD when Dugger had to break down and cover two open WRs in the flat, we saw Dugger on the line with no deep safety. This week Jones took over free safety and he seemed hesitant and unsure of what he was supposed to be doing. Dugger made a bad read and missed the RB out of the backfield. It's been a mess.

What can you say when formerly dependable players are doing this?

Two years ago Kyle should have been in the Pro Bowl after making multiple pick 6s, causing fumbles for TDs, making so many hard hits behind the line and just wrecking teams.

Now he's playing worse than he did when he as a rookie.

The lazy take is to blame the players and say he was a bad signing (as if that matters when we're 50m under the cap).

During the game thread I heard about the lack of talent on defense. Whether or not that's true is irrelevant and besides the point. The bigger problem is that these same players, without Gonzalez out there, have played so much better in the recent past. That should be the focus. Not the talent level.

I was blaming Wolf for the poor signing of Jaylinn Hawkins who has been making bad reads constantly at Free Safety. Now I'm second guessing what I said after seeing Jon Jones back there. Now I'm thinking Hawkins might actually be a fine player but he's lost in all of this.

I'll entertain any theories except for talent level. If you want to say Brian Belichick is purposefully sabotaging the defensive backfield, then make a case. I'll listen to that before I listen to any arguments about talent.

I never liked Dugger he was always overrated here: Teams with Speed just show how limited he is. We should have let him walk last FA.

 

[Real fan 02]

I never liked Dugger he was always overrated here Teams with Speed just show how limited he is. We should have let him walk last FA.

 

[condon84]

It's also the culture too.. loosing creates a loosing culture in any organization. We have become a team with loosing culture. As bad as things have been We are stuck with the HC and GM at least until next season.

The worst part about this is that you're absolutely right and we have at the very least one more year of this **** show. Worst case scenario is that we get enough good players in the offseason that even with bad coaching we win a few more games resulting in Mayo getting more years.

 

[Real fan 02]

The worst part about this is that you're absolutely right and we have at the very least one more year of this **** show. Worst case scenario is that we get enough good players in the offseason that even with bad coaching we win a few more games resulting in Mayo getting more years.

Just sad as fan to think about it really. even though there are instances where HC got fired afer one season Houston is the most recent example before hiring Ryan's. I was duped into believing that Mayo could be somewhat of what Ryan's did his first season especially with a good QB.. Mayo started losing me when he kept trying to sell Brissett gave us the best chance to win! @PatsFan2 would agree

 

[PatsFan2]

Just sad as fan to think about it really. even though there are instances where HC got fired afer one season Houston is the most recent example before hiring Ryan's. I was duped into believing that Mayo could be somewhat of what Ryan's did his first season especially with a good QB.. Mayo started losing me when he kept trying to sell Brissett gave us the best chance to win! @PatsFan2 would agree

And now they think Turnstyles Lowe and Jacobs can be Starters in this league.

 

[Ring 6]

Next season it when the clock starts. I'm telling SBB.. RK won't pull the trigger.. go figure the best to ever do it got a 4 year window post brady.. Mayo's got til next season if not then see ya!

Neither Mayo or wolf have done anything to warrant a second year. Why waste another season?