What's happening with Kyle Dugger and Jon Jones and what it means...

[Ring 6]

Neither Mayo or wolf have done anything to warrant a second year. Why waste another season?

Arch Stanton doesn’t agree? Please list all of their incredible achievements.

 

[Real fan 02]

Neither Mayo or wolf have done anything to warrant a second year. Why waste another season?

I agree 100% but the reality is RK isn't going to pull the plug just yet.

 

[archstanton543]

Arch Stanton doesn’t agree? Please list all of their incredible achievements.

They're going to get one more year. If they don't do anything or show improvement next year, then we can properly evaluate their tenure.

 

[Real fan 02]

And now they think Turnstyles Lowe and Jacobs can be Starters in this league.

They would be great working for the T in the trains stations. I don't know who told them they could be NFL tackles..

 

[Real fan 02]

I never liked Dugger he was always overrated here: Teams with Speed just show how limited he is. We should have let him walk last FA.

Dugger is a box safety.. he's exposed without peppers..

 

[Real fan 02]

And now they think Turnstyles Lowe and Jacobs can be Starters in this league.

McNeil at DT, Lawrence at DE, Higgins at WR, diggs at WR. Ward at CB.. Staley at LT.

 

[Ring 6]

They're going to get one more year. If they don't do anything or show improvement next year, then we can properly evaluate their tenure.

You disagreed with “they haven’t done anything to deserve a second year” while agreeing they haven’t done anything?
You can evaluate them at any point. They have shown how they operate. It’s a disaster. Even you can’t point to a single reason they deserve a second year but you think they should get one. Why?

 

[upstater1]

Jones is declining. Would a permanent move to fs be beneficial? I know he played there when needed to from the injury situation and some mentioned he did well but i never really assessed. It would be nice to keep him around for his leadership on a team friendly deal but he can’t be any more than a cb4 at this stage or a safety.

He played there yesterday. It was a disaster. That's what I referenced in the first post.

 

[JohnJH]

McNeil at DT, Lawrence at DE, Higgins at WR, diggs at WR. Ward at CB.. Staley at LT.

With the exception of Higgins, the others are too old. They'll be looking for their replacements in a year or two max.

 

[upstater1]

I never liked Dugger he was always overrated here: Teams with Speed just show how limited he is. We should have let him walk last FA.

Aren't you the one who gets mad at people for bringing up people's contracts when we're $50m-$100m under the cap?

Dugger had a Pro Bowl worthy year 2 years ago. He was rated highly for being a game changer.

But it's interesting to see this thread move in the direction of focusing on how bad the players are. We can look all over the team and see guys playing badly. Why is that? Why are they this year playing worse than they ever have?

 

[Vindicate]

Bro's high maintenance. He's being paid top S money, but needs two other S's deep so he can linger around the LOS. As his snap count has gone up, his overall play has gone down. You don't need the stats geeks to back up that claim (even though they agree).

He's very similar to Chung. How much did we pay Chung (when we actually played him at his position and became very valuable to the defense)? It'd be interesting to see his contract adjust for inflation and how it matches Duggar.

 

[Ring 6]

I agree 100% but the reality is RK isn't going to pull the plug just yet.

Kraft cares about his legacy and getting credit. He spent the entire off season trying to convince the world that the team won because of him instead of belichick. Then to prove it he hired an unqualified HC so he could argue it’s all about him if it worked. Plus it checked the “look I hired a minority, I’m a great guy” box.
50% says he won’t admit he was wrong.
50% says he thinks his rep gets damaged more by continuing to lose.

Kraft has never been able to read the room and most of the things he says that he thinks will work with the fans don’t, so it’s anyone’s guess.

 

[Real fan 02]

With the exception of Higgins, the others are too old. They'll be looking for their replacements in a year or two max.

Diggs I warmed up to the idea if having him on a short deal a reliable vet that is still an elite route runner even at 30.

 

[upstater1]

He's very similar to Chung. How much did we pay Chung (when we actually played him at his position and became very valuable to the defense)? It'd be interesting to see his contract adjust for inflation and how it matches Duggar.

This is why I'm looking at multiple players, because the focus among fans (and Trevor on Twitter) is on how badly Dugger is playing. But it takes a wider context to see that Jon Jones is also playing safety badly.

Dell Pettus yesterday, my god, the kid had depth of 3 yards, so Tua threw over him.

Jaylinn Hawkins lost his starting spot because he was out of position for so much.

Peppers actually started the first four games of this season and the problems were already there.

When you have you have 5 different safeties looking lost on your defense, it's not the time to blame one player (Dugger).

I blame Belichick.

Brian Belichick

 

[signbabybrady]

You disagreed with “they haven’t done anything to deserve a second year” while agreeing they haven’t done anything?
You can evaluate them at any point. They have shown how they operate. It’s a disaster. Even you can’t point to a single reason they deserve a second year but you think they should get one. Why?

There is only one thing you can point to right now and that's Maye looking decent. How much of that is just natural ability vs coaches getting him ready is certainly debatable. I don't see another thing they could point out right now though.

Kraft cares about his legacy and getting credit. He spent the entire off season trying to convince the world that the team won because of him instead of belichick. Then to prove it he hired an unqualified HC so he could argue it’s all about him if it worked. Plus it checked the “look I hired a minority, I’m a great guy” box.
50% says he won’t admit he was wrong.
50% says he thinks his rep gets damaged more by continuing to lose.

Kraft has never been able to read the room and most of the things he says that he thinks will work with the fans don’t, so it’s anyone’s guess.

I think this is an accurate assessment. At the end of the year which side of the coin he goes with who knows but both seem to fall in line with how he operates.

 

[h0c2000]

Kraft cares about his legacy and getting credit. He spent the entire off season trying to convince the world that the team won because of him instead of belichick. Then to prove it he hired an unqualified HC so he could argue it’s all about him if it worked. Plus it checked the “look I hired a minority, I’m a great guy” box.
50% says he won’t admit he was wrong.
50% says he thinks his rep gets damaged more by continuing to lose.

Kraft has never been able to read the room and most of the things he says that he thinks will work with the fans don’t, so it’s anyone’s guess.

They get to 5 wins, RKK will say see I was right. If they stay at 3 wins, RKK will just blame Bill. Oversimplified yes, but RKK thinks he's a football guru who's mostly responsible for 6 SB wins.

 

[upstater1]

There is only one thing you can point to right now and that's Maye looking decent. How much of that is just natural ability vs coaches getting him ready is certainly debatable. I don't see another thing they could point out right now though.



I think this is an accurate assessment. At the end of the year which side of the coin he goes with who knows but both seem to fall in line with how he operates.

How often does Maye need to go off platform to look half decent? How does he look when he plays within the offense and not freelancing? Last week against the Rams he looked great within the offense. Yesterday he seemed to only thrive when freelancing.

So the impact of AVP remains to be seen, unless of course Maye was so incredibly raw with footwork and confidence that the entire team of coaches built him into this.

 

[Ring 6]

They get to 5 wins, RKK will say see I was right. If they stay at 3 wins, RKK will just blame Bill. Oversimplified yes, but RKK thinks he's a football guru who's mostly responsible for 6 SB wins.

But can his ego afford another season like this? Because you know Wolf and Mayo aren’t fixing it.

We could trade wolf and Mayo for Reid and the chiefs GM and the chiefs would miss the playoffs next year.

 

[Ring 6]

There is only one thing you can point to right now and that's Maye looking decent. How much of that is just natural ability vs coaches getting him ready is certainly debatable. I don't see another thing they could point out right now though.



I think this is an accurate assessment. At the end of the year which side of the coin he goes with who knows but both seem to fall in line with how he operates.

Considering they held Maye back for what we now know was not a football smart reason, I’d say Mayes success is because of Maye in spite of the staff.

 

[JohnJH]

Diggs I warmed up to the idea if having him on a short deal a reliable vet that is still an elite route runner even at 30.

That certainly makes sense. I would just prefer to go with younger proven FA talent combined with talented drafted players. There's a lot of uncertainty with this team regarding the future. I've known previous Patriots Teams that were just as bad, and some even worse. I guess only time will tell if The Kraft's will swallow their pride, admit they made a mistake, and spare no expense in money and effort to bring back a contending culture. Or, worst case scenario, years of horrible teams which forces a change in ownership. And if that happens, it's anyone's guess as to what happens after that.