Not Taking the Wind is a Fireable Offense

[TheRainMaker]

Jim Mora Jr?

Coached at UCLA for a few years and is currently at UConn.

Bobby Petrino. That was a disaster.

He quit on the Falcons to go take the Arkansas HC job.

 

[captain stone]

Jim Mora Jr?

Coached at UCLA for a few years and is currently at UConn.

Bobby Petrino, courtesy of h0c2000.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Screw the coin toss decision. Mayo should be dope slapped for going to OT, he should've gone for 2. THAT was inexcusable

Agree with this completely.

 

[Huckleberry1]

The important thing is they're having fun now.

Actually it was Taylor Embrees fault. Kraft told Mayo to collaborate, so it was Embree’s turn to make the decision.

 

[Ring 6]

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. I said this in another thread but back in March, they had nothing to sell quality skill players on other than a hypothetical, which not many guys are going to uproot their families for that. The only option to get them would have been to overpay to the point where the market would have been reset at that position, and they wisely didn't do that.

If Maye keeps going at this rate, offensive players will want to come here because there's a guy here who can get them the football. But they had nobody to sell free agents on. I mean, honestly the team didn't either even from a marketing perspective, aside from maybe Gonzalez, or Hunter Henry (or Judon). This team was an absolute mess heading into that timeframe. I've said it before, but we got a look at how the other half lives. If this team was in a dome or a warmer climate, maybe a couple of them would have flipped. But the roster certainly wasn't attractive with guys FA's would want to come play with, nor was the head coach.

But nobody wants to play in miserable weather while also being unsure if the guy responsible for their success is going to be able to get them the football. And the available quality offensive linemen - many of which were older - likely wanted to go to a team who they felt had a better shot to play in January and maybe get them some extra $$ in postseason incentives.

I know you don't believe it, but it is what it is. However, I also believe - based on your other posts about this - you felt that this had less to do with Wolf and more to do with Kraft being cheap and preventing him from spending. So do you now feel like Kraft didn't stop Wolf from being able to spend the money, and it's instead now all Wolf's fault? Or am I misinterpreting what you're saying?

Why did we sign poor free agents then? Why did we resign players from last year? The no one would sign here is the biggest excuse making fallacy that exists. We lost out on ONE free agent that we tried to sign. ONE. How do you know players wouldn’t sign here if we didn’t try?Tennesse signed a bunch. Carolina, Washington. All the bad teams didn’t have that problem. Why?

It could be both. I don’t know what limits Kraft put on him but he spent over 30 mill on Brissett, Gibson, Osborne, Hawkins, Chunks, Leverette, Bourne, Hooper. I’m curious why did they want to come here if no one wanted to come here? Seems it’s a combination and besides if Kraft told wolf he had to sit in 40 million he should have objected or refused the job.

 

[Ring 6]

Has anyone been made head coach of an NFL team with no coordinator or head coaching experience at any level of organized football? I believe it’s unprecedented (and unforgivable — I hope Kraft sells).

Herman Edwards but he had more than twice as much coaching experience

 

[PancakeBlockPaul]

Are we sure they didn't pick the wind in OT and the wind simply just...changed directions?

Didn’t cordona call the toss? Maybe he did also…just sayin…

 

[Triumph]

Has anyone been made head coach of an NFL team with no coordinator or head coaching experience at any level of organized football? I believe it’s unprecedented (and unforgivable — I hope Kraft sells).

**** McPherson had no NFL experience.
Ray Berry was a NFL WR coach and promoted.
Mike Holovak was a NFL RB coach and promoted.

Its going to be funny next season when BB is back coaching the NY Giants and winning through being prepared and discipline.

 

[Ian]

Why did we sign poor free agents then? Why did we resign players from last year? The no one would sign here is the biggest excuse making fallacy that exists. We lost out on ONE free agent that we tried to sign. ONE. How do you know players wouldn’t sign here if we didn’t try?Tennesse signed a bunch. Carolina, Washington. All the bad teams didn’t have that problem. Why?

It could be both. I don’t know what limits Kraft put on him but he spent over 30 mill on Brissett, Gibson, Osborne, Hawkins, Chunks, Leverette, Bourne, Hooper. I’m curious why did they want to come here if no one wanted to come here? Seems it’s a combination and besides if Kraft told wolf he had to sit in 40 million he should have objected or refused the job.

The only guys who would sign are obviously guys with limited options. Guys in demand have better options, and they don't go to 4-12 teams without a quarterback or an established coach.

And the teams you mentioned also at least had a starting quarterback (the Patriots had Mac Jones and Bailey Zappe at the start of free agency and no one was leaving their team to go and play with Brissett - who didn't sign until after free agency started) Not great QBs, but guys who at least had better numbers than those two players. They also have established coaches.

And I said this to you previously, but you act like Wolf targeted the handful of guys they did sign and then sat on his hands for two months and "didn't try" for anyone else. I said to you the last time we discussed this that if that's the case, he should absolutely be fired. But I highly doubt that was the case. And not every free agent who they inquire about gets reported.

The Patriots had the absolute league-worst situation heading into March compared to every other team in the league. That's why no one wanted to come here. I mean, had they kept Belichick, maybe he could have swayed one of those guys to come here, but he had at least had Super Bowl rings on his resume. They had Jerod Mayo, Mac Jones, and Zappe and no one for Wolf to sell them on, short of resetting the market at their positions to make it worth their while to come here. And that would have caused an issue when it came to keeping guys in-house down the road.

Next March, if he keeps going at this rate, Maye will hopefully be the difference, and they'll have better luck this time around. But they were terrible at the end of last season. I know you don't seem to believe it, but Mayo, Jones, and Zappe weren't moving the needle. The Titans, Panthers, and Commanders - as crazy as it sounds - were actually more attractive options at the time. That's how low it all sank to, unfortunately.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Has anyone been made head coach of an NFL team with no coordinator or head coaching experience at any level of organized football? I believe it’s unprecedented (and unforgivable — I hope Kraft sells).

Mike Singletary is the best comp to Mayo. Only coached for 6 years before becoming a HC. He is best known for pulling down his pants in the locker room which was the nail in the coffin for him.

Mike McDaniel. Run game coordinator but not an OC. Like McVay, it was a controversial hire in Miami.

 

[PatsFan2]

Mike Singletary is the best comp to Mayo. Only coached for 6 years before becoming a HC. He is best known for pulling down his pants in the locker room which was the nail in the coffin for him.

Mike McDaniel. Run game coordinator but not an OC. Like McVay, it was a controversial hire in Miami.

Had a Top Offense though unfortunate injuries is what derailed them. That said I like Mike McDaniel.

 

[Ring 6]

The only guys who would sign are obviously guys with limited options. Guys in demand have better options, and they don't go to 4-12 teams without a quarterback or an established coach.

And the teams you mentioned also at least had a starting quarterback (the Patriots had Mac Jones and Bailey Zappe at the start of free agency and no one was leaving their team to go and play with Brissett - who didn't sign until after free agency started) Not great QBs, but guys who at least had better numbers than those two players. They also have established coaches.

And I said this to you previously, but you act like Wolf targeted the handful of guys they did sign and then sat on his hands for two months and "didn't try" for anyone else. I said to you the last time we discussed this that if that's the case, he should absolutely be fired. But I highly doubt that was the case. And not every free agent who they inquire about gets reported.

The Patriots had the absolute league-worst situation heading into March compared to every other team in the league. That's why no one wanted to come here. I mean, had they kept Belichick, maybe he could have swayed one of those guys to come here, but he had at least had Super Bowl rings on his resume. They had Jerod Mayo, Mac Jones, and Zappe and no one for Wolf to sell them on, short of resetting the market at their positions to make it worth their while to come here. And that would have caused an issue when it came to keeping guys in-house down the road.

Next March, if he keeps going at this rate, Maye will hopefully be the difference, and they'll have better luck this time around. But they were terrible at the end of last season. I know you don't seem to believe it, but Mayo, Jones, and Zappe weren't moving the needle. The Titans, Panthers, and Commanders - as crazy as it sounds - were actually more attractive options at the time. That's how low it all sank to, unfortunately.

Washington didn’t have a QB, Tennessee didn’t and Carolina didn’t. All 3 had new coaches.
Show me the players who told us no. I can’t find anyone other than Ridley that we tried to sign and didn’t and we were down to the wire on him. He is proof free agents would come here if we did a better job recruiting them.

I don’t “act like” that, it’s what actually happened. Show me anything that contradicts it. We went and signed our “targets” early in free agency and then sat out. Show me any examples where we pursued players and didn’t get them. There could be many reasons. The most likely is that he actually thought the slugs he signed were going to make the a competitive team. It also could be that Kraft refused to spend.

Do you really think that every one of the over 100 free agents that would have helped us were chasing a ring? Come on? We had a lot to offer free agents. More opportunity to play, a large role, more money. Those things mean more to 95% of free agents than what they predict the record will be. . Why couldn’t our GM sell them on his vision? Every year teams drastically improve under new leadership. Why couldn’t our leadership convey that vision?

There is absolutely zero reasons that Tennessee, Carolina and Washington were more attractive. Not a single one.

 

[Ring 6]

Are we sure they didn't pick the wind in OT and the wind simply just...changed directions?

Yes we are sure. Mayo said the wind had changed SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE GAME.

 

[denverpatsfan]

**** McPherson had no NFL experience.
Ray Berry was a NFL WR coach and promoted.
Mike Holovak was a NFL RB coach and promoted.

Its going to be funny next season when BB is back coaching the NY Giants and winning through being prepared and discipline.

What makes you think Bills next team would be prepared and disciplined? His last few seasons here were ****ing brutal in that regard.

 

[Hogo145]

It's frustrating because no matter what Mayo does he will have one mulligan of a year and Kraft wont move on from him.
Next year I WANT us to be above .500 and try for the playoffs but if we keep Mayo and miss the playoffs it will be a wasted season imo. Especially if candidates like Ben Johnson/Vrabel/Flores find other jobs.

 

[signbabybrady]

What makes you think Bills next team would be prepared and disciplined? His last few seasons here were ****ing brutal in that regard.

Maybe it's the 20 other seasons

 

[Ian]

Washington didn’t have a QB, Tennessee didn’t and Carolina didn’t.

Both had quarterbacks in Will Levis and Bryce Young. Both of which > Mac Jones & Bailey Zappe

All 3 had new coaches.

Look at their resumes compared to Mayo. Those two guys are established coaches who at least have had some success and guys knew who they were. And again, their QBS > Mac Jones & Bailey Zappe. And yes, I'm aware Bryce Young and Will Levis are terrible. But Jones and Zappe were - unfortunately - worse.

Show me the players who told us no. I can’t find anyone other than Ridley that we tried to sign and didn’t and we were down to the wire on him. He is proof free agents would come here if we did a better job recruiting them.

I don’t “act like” that, it’s what actually happened. Show me anything that contradicts it. We went and signed our “targets” early in free agency and then sat out. Show me any examples where we pursued players and didn’t get them. There could be many reasons. The most likely is that he actually thought the slugs he signed were going to make the a competitive team. It also could be that Kraft refused to spend.

So, again, you're saying Wolf went "I'm good with these guys" (Okorafor, etc.) and didn't even kick the tires or pursue anyone else in two months. No need.

Again, if that's the case, he should be fired immediately.

Do you really think that every one of the over 100 free agents that would have helped us were chasing a ring? Come on? We had a lot to offer free agents. More opportunity to play, a large role, more money. Those things mean more to 95% of free agents than what they predict the record will be. .

I feel like you totally underestimate the fact they could have had those same things elsewhere - and did. But more importantly, most players are also looking for a chance at postseason incentives because they're also significant. They knew they had no chance at that here in 2024, and maybe not until 2026.

Tennessee - on paper - offered that (Hopkins was also still there, which Ridley admitted swayed him). And Carolina's coach was a smart offensive guy who they thought might salvage Young and turn that mess around. And they had a better group of skill players than New England had in March (they had no tight ends on the roster heading into free agency).

Wolf can try and say they might be competitive, but their agents also play a role in those decisions and typically advise their clients on where they'll maximize their money.

Again, had Belichick been here, maybe a couple of those guys might have bought into that. But I'm sure most looked at Jones & Zappe - and rolled their eyes, and when they heard they might sign Brissett probably went, "to throw to what wideouts? (again, they had no tight ends on the roster heading into free agency)."

My guess is they went, "No thanks." And they all got paid anyway. And the only way you overcome that is to offer them a deal they absolutely can't refuse, and none of the guys available (save maybe for Aiyuk, which was an early season deal where they got used again to drive his price up and he ended up getting hurt) weren't worthy of going farther above the top of the market.

There is absolutely zero reasons that Tennessee, Carolina and Washington were more attractive. Not a single one.

See above.

 

[dliverey44]

Dre projects for over 800 rushing yards behind this awful O-line that's actually pretty good.

but that basically happened in 3 games. He has 1 game over 100 yards, 2 games over 80 and then has not cracked 50 in 5 games. The OL is very bad but we cannot look at total stats and say he did pretty good. For a multitude of factors the running game has been bad.

 

[Ring 6]

Both had quarterbacks in Will Levis and Bryce Young. Both of which > Mac Jones & Bailey Zappe

Look at their resumes compared to Mayo. Those two guys are established coaches who at least have had some success and guys knew who they were. And again, their QBS > Mac Jones & Bailey Zappe. And yes, I'm aware Bryce Young and Will Levis are terrible. But Jones and Zappe were - unfortunately - worse.

So, again, you're saying Wolf went "I'm good with these guys" (Okorafor, etc.) and didn't even kick the tires or pursue anyone else in two months. No need.

Again, if that's the case, he should be fired immediately.

I feel like you totally underestimate the fact they could have had those same things elsewhere - and did. But more importantly, most players are also looking for a chance at postseason incentives because they're also significant. They knew they had no chance at that here in 2024, and maybe not until 2026.

Tennessee - on paper - offered that (Hopkins was also still there, which Ridley admitted swayed him). And Carolina's coach was a smart offensive guy who they thought might salvage Young and turn that mess around. And they had a better group of skill players than New England had in March (they had no tight ends on the roster heading into free agency).

Wolf can try and say they might be competitive, but their agents also play a role in those decisions and typically advise their clients on where they'll maximize their money.

Again, had Belichick been here, maybe a couple of those guys might have bought into that. But I'm sure most looked at Jones & Zappe - and rolled their eyes, and when they heard they might sign Brissett probably went, "to throw to what wideouts? (again, they had no tight ends on the roster heading into free agency)."

My guess is they went, "No thanks." And they all got paid anyway. And the only way you overcome that is to offer them a deal they absolutely can't refuse, and none of the guys available (save maybe for Aiyuk, which was an early season deal where they got used again to drive his price up and he ended up getting hurt) weren't worthy of going farther above the top of the market.

See above.

Will Levis and Bryce young are worse than “I’ll draft a qb at 3 and sign a vet” Everyone knew we were getting Maye.

Mayo could tough being part of the greatest dynasty ever and building on the tradition with proven support from ownership and fans. What are Callahan Quinn and the guy no one ever heard of in Carolina offering. You know this is a bad argument for you, don’t you?

I’m saying all the evidence says that’s exactly what Wolf did. He has also stated that “all the pieces are there” for the OL and now waiver wire guys start. Do you think he was fine with the OL in March thru June?
It’s not that he signed no one it’s that he signed bad players. The problem is he didn’t realize they were bad. He thought Chunks, Levertte, the awful ol draft picks, solved the OL, Bourne, Osborne and the awful WR picks solved WR, Gibson solved RB, Brissett solved QB. Hooper solved TE.
Why wouldn’t he sit tight if he thought his signings fixed it?

On defense he signed non descript DTs because he appears to not value that position. He thought Uche and Jennings both playing full time instead of platooning fixed OLB so he traded Judon. He thought McMillan and Takitaki could play LB
He thought Hawkins was S 3 and he didn’t need a 4th. He thought Austin was a cb3.

Every piece of evidence says he built the team he wanted.

You think players signed with the teams that picked before us and Tennessee to get playoff checks. Come on.

You are arguing no one would ever come here but they would love Carolina because a new coach might turn around a terrible qb. And they wanted to cash playoff checks.

I might think this is something more than you scrambling to come up with excuses for wolf if you could show any evidence at all that any of your assumptions are true. Can you find a single player who said they didn’t want to play here? Outside of a handful of aging vets, players regularly sign with bad teams, and have ever since free agency began.

We should probably just agree to disagree because you seem to have a belief and don’t care whether it’s supported by facts or not, so we won’t get anywhere with me looking at and for facts.

 

[Ring 6]

Dre projects for over 800 rushing yards behind this awful O-line that's actually pretty good.

800 yards in 17 games is horrendous