Wirfs or Darrisaw?

[JohnJH]

That is exactly how I thought about it until I was chatting with a buddy of mine and he posed this question. He said would you rather have 10 million dollars right now(Wirfs) or buy a lottery ticket with a 50% chance of winning 30 million? I am more cautious in my older age and would take the sure thing as opposed to chancing getting Penei Sewell or Becton.

Maybe a bad analogy, but made sense to me. As of right now LT is probably the draft pick, So do I want Wirfs(given large contract and draft capital) or do I want the chance to get Becton, Cross, Jonah Williams, Tony Mandrich(cheaper contract but may not ever be a pro bowler or worst yet a bust. I want the known cornerstone LT. We have money to make that significant improvement, so that is my choice. I really doubt that Campbell or Banks will be better than Wirfs, they might be as good but I feel like its not a good bet.

And, although the top 2 LT's in the 2025 draft may be highly ranked or even "Blue Chip" players, there's no guarantee that is what they'll be. Wirfs is still young and as close to a sure thing as there is at LT.

 

[dliverey44]

And, although the top 2 LT's in the 2025 draft may be highly ranked or even "Blue Chip" players, there's no guarantee that is what they'll be. Wirfs is still young and as close to a sure thing as there is at LT.

Yea man, I was all about getting the top rated LT at a cost controlled contract, but my buddy was like so if you take the LT and he is average then what. He goes on, at that point you are still having to scheme to cover up deficiencies and potentially look for a replacement in a few years. That kinda opened my eyes to ensuring you have a set and forget LT.

 

[Toofy]

That is exactly how I thought about it until I was chatting with a buddy of mine and he posed this question. He said would you rather have 10 million dollars right now(Wirfs) or buy a lottery ticket with a 50% chance of winning 30 million? I am more cautious in my older age and would take the sure thing as opposed to chancing getting Penei Sewell or Becton.

Maybe a bad analogy, but made sense to me. As of right now LT is probably the draft pick, So do I want Wirfs(given large contract and draft capital) or do I want the chance to get Becton, Cross, Jonah Williams, Tony Mandrich(cheaper contract but may not ever be a pro bowler or worst yet a bust. I want the known cornerstone LT. We have money to make that significant improvement, so that is my choice. I really doubt that Campbell or Banks will be better than Wirfs, they might be as good but I feel like its not a good bet.

You are assuming the worst. What if we get 1 decent player out of 3 from our 2025 rd1 trade and one who plays on a rookie contract . What happens if wirfs gets injured and plays sparingly for pats. This surety of wirfs playing phenomenal is not going to be better than 2 above average players one a OT and another Ron defense or offense contributing on rookie contract. This is what has helped Texans . The number of premium draft picks spent on different players and hitting on them.

When they traded for tunsil, it led to a period of downturn and the coach getting fired . We don't want that on the pats.


Trading your first rounder for An OT and 25 million a year for guaranteed 75 million when you know you are going to have a down year in 2024 and guaranteed top 3 pick in 2025 is rooms for you to get fired .

 

[JohnJH]

You are assuming the worst. What if we get 1 decent player out of 3 from our 2025 rd1 trade and one who plays on a rookie contract . What happens if wirfs gets injured and plays sparingly for pats. This surety of wirfs playing phenomenal is not going to be better than 2 above average players one a OT and another Ron defense or offense contributing on rookie contract. This is what has helped Texans . The number of premium draft picks spent on different players and hitting on them.

When they traded for tunsil, it led to a period of downturn and the coach getting fired . We don't want that on the pats.


Trading your first rounder for An OT and 25 million a year for guaranteed 75 million when you know you are going to have a down year in 2024 and guaranteed top 3 pick in 2025 is rooms for you to get fired .

What if the LT that they draft is a bust and/or can't stay healthy? Sports, as with the rest of life, is replete with "What Ifs". I'm not saying it wouldn't be beneficial to draft a stud LT on a rookie contract. I'm just saying that there are other options (although not as cost effective as a rookie contract, and even then, if the rookie is a stud, they will get paid on their 2nd contract). There's more than one way to skin a proverbial cat.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

That is exactly how I thought about it until I was chatting with a buddy of mine and he posed this question. He said would you rather have 10 million dollars right now(Wirfs) or buy a lottery ticket with a 50% chance of winning 30 million? I am more cautious in my older age and would take the sure thing as opposed to chancing getting Penei Sewell or Becton.

Maybe a bad analogy, but made sense to me. As of right now LT is probably the draft pick, So do I want Wirfs(given large contract and draft capital) or do I want the chance to get Becton, Cross, Jonah Williams, Tony Mandrich(cheaper contract but may not ever be a pro bowler or worst yet a bust. I want the known cornerstone LT. We have money to make that significant improvement, so that is my choice. I really doubt that Campbell or Banks will be better than Wirfs, they might be as good but I feel like its not a good bet.

Where are they with the salary cap? How much do they have to spend?

 

[dliverey44]

Where are they with the salary cap? How much do they have to spend?

Sporttrac has them at 8.6M and OTC has them at 7.1M

 

[JohnJH]

Sporttrac has them at 8.6M and OTC has them at 7.1M

We all know that the salary cap can and has been manipulated by teams (some are better at it than others). Even so, the bill always comes due. Can Tampa with Wilfs and Minnesota with Darrisaw, be able to resign them after next year with all of the other players that they want to retain? That's the big question. And even if they can make the math work, do they decide that it's in the short and long-tern best interest to do so?

 

[Huckleberry1]

Why would their teams trade them? Both teams believe they are in contention.

As the Patriots have found out, it's really hard to grab a LT. They go quick in the 1st round. It would be self-defeating for a team to do this.

I can only imagine a very bad and desperate team trading away a middle aged LT, but even then the idea is dubious.

I agree that no one is trading a franchise left tackle. Like QB the best ones never see free agency. The problem they face, at this point, is that the first round of next year’s draft appears to be the opposite of the 24’Draft, loaded on defense in the first round, sparse on offense. So far I have only seen a couple of OT’s projected in the top 15. That said they could very likely be picking in a position to get a good one, the question will be whether to pass on a better defensive prospect to fill the need. However if they have fixed QB then the most important need was filled, hopefully for the next 10-15 years, so they can focus all their attention on building the rest of the team around Maye.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Sporttrac has them at 8.6M and OTC has them at 7.1M

Miguel has them at 46.5 as of yesterday, and no one is more accurate regarding the Patriots cap. They are projected to have over 95 million going into free agency next year:

 

[Huckleberry1]

Sporttrac has them at 8.6M and OTC has them at 7.1M.

Just realized you are talking about either Minnesota or the Bucs.

 

[BTTA]

2025 1st when you can possibly be getting top 3.

I am not trading 2025 1at. This year is a lost cause. 2025 1st will be used to draft the safest first round pick on offense which would most likely be a LT on rookie contract or trade down and collect additional assets and still draft a top 10 LT on rookie contract.

No way am I giving top 1 pick and 22 million annual contract on a team that's yet to be on contention.

The counter argument is that even a top 3 pick, on a LT or WR, is still only 50/50 to produce a star of the quality of the two guys under consideration here.

 

[Toofy]

The counter argument is that even a top 3 pick, on a LT or WR, is still only 50/50 to produce a star of the quality of the two guys under consideration here.

If all predictions are accurate we might end up with draft pick 1 and ability to get 2-3 additional picksdy trading down and building a team around Maye.

As of now we are starved of talent and the more the higher picks better the probability. Will be loathe to trade it just to get an LT. An LT is not a QB. We can win with an average or above average eLT is QB and weapons on offense develop.

And we are not even competing this year. Why spend 20 million this year when you can roll it over and use it as a added lever to sign marquee free agents in 2025.

 

[Huckleberry1]

The counter argument is that even a top 3 pick, on a LT or WR, is still only 50/50 to produce a star of the quality of the two guys under consideration here.

If they do end up with a top 5 pick again in 25’, then that’s the time too look at the trade offers from the teams looking for their franchise QB. The QB class doesn’t look strong, but even then a number of them will rise up to be high picks purely because of the position they play.

 

[Zuma]

If they do end up with a top 5 pick again in 25’, then that’s the time too look at the trade offers from the teams looking for their franchise QB. The QB class doesn’t look strong, but even then a number of them will rise up to be high picks purely because of the position they play.

Absolutely this. When you have your franchise QB…you trade that top 5 pick for higher picks if your rebuilding.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Absolutely this. When you have your franchise QB…you trade that top 5 pick for higher picks if your rebuilding.

I think it’s a serious option, however if they see a franchise caliber LT, or a future long term all pro, like an Aaron Donald, Randy Moss, or a Trent Williams then by all means take the All Pro.

 

[JohnJH]

I think it’s a serious option, however if they see a franchise caliber LT, or a future long term all pro, like an Aaron Donald, Randy Moss, or a Trent Williams then by all means take the All Pro.

Absolutely agree, just as long as they do a get a solid if not spectacular LT somehow.

 

[dliverey44]

Miguel has them at 46.5 as of yesterday, and no one is more accurate regarding the Patriots cap. They are projected to have over 95 million going into free agency next year:

Sorry, I was refering to Tampa.

 

[JohnJH]

Sorry, I was refering to Tampa.

No worries. Thanks for the heads-up.

 

[cstjohn17]

Back to the original premise, what would I trade?

First I will admit I don’t watch a lot of Vikings or Bucs and don’t know if these guys are elite but let’s assume the are above average pro bowl (not all pro) caliber of players for the next 5 years.

A lot would depend on how they view Maye, they took a huge risk drafting him this year when they will have a top 3 pick in 2025.

Both the Vikings and Bucs should have top 10 picks next year.

If the Patriots like Maye I would trade the Patriots 2025 1st rounder for:
- the 2025 1st from the Vikings / Bucs (swap picks)
- 2026 1st rounder from Vikings / Bucs
- the LT mentioned above (Dirrasaw / Wirfs); must agree to a contract extension

Pats get franchise LT, plus two more 1st rounders; Vikings / Bucs get premium draft pick they can keep our trade for extra picks and receive value for their LTs (instead of just letting them walk)

 

[Wozzy]

The Pats could have gotten a blue chip OT in the second round this draft if they worked it a little better. It was widely accepted this draft was a tackle heavy draft and they had two staring them in the face even after trading back in Patrick Paul and Kingsley Suamataia.

They had enough ammo to select one then move back up and take Polk if they wanted, they would have had to sacrifice later picks that got them Wallace or Robinson... that's a reasonable exchange for a true left tackle stud prospect. If Wallace isn't starting at tackle and someone besides Robinson is starting in place of Cole Strange, it will be more clear this was a mistake.

As far as Darrisaw or Wirfs forget it... the Vikings and Bucs have enough cap space to extend both after this season. Moreover it's bad business to trade for a player then pay him a massive contract when they could just use their first round pick next offseason to select one.