Great job on FA day three! Pleased with the front office?

[TheRainMaker]

Yes, I would prefer the guy who coached us to 6 Super Bowls and drafted the greatest QB of all time to get another shot with a new young QB. He got one shot with Mac Jones, which was a massive whiff, and Thunder kicked him right out the door.

Thunder is starting a pattern of having fall guys so he doesn't look bad when things don't go right. He fired Carroll for things out of his control. He was on the verge of firing Bill in had Brady not worked out. Fires Bill because they didn't want to commit to a multi year deal with Brady, Mac Jones didn't work out and bad drafts reared it's ugly head. While Bill's drafts have been bad for quite some time, he should've gotten one more shot to get it right with the #3 pick out of respect for what he's done for the franchise. He was done dirty being so close to the most wins for a HC.

Bobby will absolutely pull the plug on Mayo if their losing trend continues during the next two years.

 

[venecol]

This off season so far has proven that Kraft is cheap. FA’s will only come here if we seriously outbid other teams because unfortunately we are not a very desirable place right now . In order to get that true #1 WR we need to get into a bidding war and that is what the FO need to do . But of course it won’t happen with the Krafts. It’s about time that people realize that Bill spoke the truth when he said we spent the least because of the stupid Krafts !!!!

I disagree. The top 3 WR FAs stayed with their teams (re-signed or tagged). After that, there was Ridley, who I don't view as a true WR1. Yet, the Pats were in it to the end, outbidding JAX, with a ridiculous 22M/yr. TEN gave him a bag w/ 50M FULLY guaranteed. Would you have offered 4/100M with 55M FULLY guaranteed to a good WR2 with a "history?"

I'm perfectly fine with the effort made. Let TEN deal with Ridley and his ridiculous contract.

Same goes for TE. We all wanted Schultz. He re-signed with his team. There's nothing you can do about that. We re-signed the next best TE, Hunter.

The tackle FAs suck. Pats re-signed the #3 best, Onwenu. If they can sign Smith, then there's hope. We'll see.

QBs? Same. Top 2, Cousins was thrown a bag by the Falcons, coming off an Achilles. Baker re-signed. Pats got the #8 ranked bridge QB, given they have the #3 pick.

Those are the top 3 areas of need: QB, LT, WR. It is what it is.

 

[203Pat]

Thunder is starting a pattern of having fall guys so he doesn't look bad when things don't go right. He fired Carroll for things out of his control. He was on the verge of firing Bill in had Brady not worked out. Fires Bill because they didn't want to commit to a multi year deal with Brady, Mac Jones didn't work out and bad drafts reared it's ugly head. While Bill's drafts have been bad for quite some time, he should've gotten one more shot to get it right with the #3 pick out of respect for what he's done for the franchise. He was done dirty being so close to the most wins for a HC.

Bobby will absolutely pull the plug on Mayo if their losing trend continues during the next two years.

So when people don't do what they're supposed to Kraft fires them. What a monster!

 

[mike_usagisan]

I disagree. The top 3 WR FAs stayed with their teams (re-signed or tagged). After that, there was Ridley, who I don't view as a true WR1. Yet, the Pats were in it to the end, outbidding JAX, with a ridiculous 22M/yr. TEN gave him a bag w/ 50M FULLY guaranteed. Would you have offered 4/100M with 55M FULLY guaranteed to a good WR2 with a "history?"

I'm perfectly fine with the effort made. Let TEN deal with Ridley and his ridiculous contract.

Same goes for TE. We all wanted Schultz. He re-signed with his team. There's nothing you can do about that. We re-signed the next best TE, Hunter.

The tackle FAs suck. Pats re-signed the #3 best, Onwenu. If they can sign Smith, then there's hope. We'll see.

QBs? Same. Top 2, Cousins was thrown a bag by the Falcons, coming off an Achilles. Baker re-signed. Pats got the #8 ranked bridge QB, given they have the #3 pick.

Those are the top 3 areas of need: QB, LT, WR. It is what it is.

Agree on all of this. I still wish they had done more on defense (or will do more on D).

 

[archstanton543]

Pain is a very weird thing. There are severe injuries that don't cause a lot of pain and minor things that hurt like the devil.

I love the tough guys here that would cry if a 350 lb DL landed on them after hitting them at a full sprint.

 

[jlu52]

I love the tough guys here that would cry if a 350 DL landed on them after hitting them at a full sprint.

Disintegrate, arch, disintegrate

 

[Fuzz]

Revis, Colvin, Adalius Thomas and Gilmore were the big ticket Free Agents. How many were elite is another story. Colvin and Thomas were considered borderline elite at the time while Revis' stock wasn't very high and Gilmore signing was controversial because he struggled in Buffalo. Stallworth was a big singing with the Pats having an out after year 1. Brian Waters was an elite G and had a Pro Bowl season with the Pats in 2011.

This is how I ideally like FA or trade where you draft well and use trade/FA as the final piece. SF is the current example.

Good post. So just around 5 big names overall over 20 years. And none of them came here on team-friendly deals to join a contender and chase a ring. That simply does not happen.

 

[TheRainMaker]

So when people don't do what they're supposed to Kraft fires them. What a monster!

He lost Parcells because he started meddling. As Parcells mentioned in the Doc, Bob knew nothing about football and should've stayed out of it.

Carroll was the fall guy when Bobby stepped in and lowballed one of the best RB's in the NFL which led Parcells taking advantage of their incompetence. The drafts and personnel decisions by newly appointed Grier that followed derailed the late 90's teams. Was Grier just following orders by Bob?

They have an unprecedented run, but Thunder fires Bill after a few bad seasons? I didn't like a lot personnel moves Bill was making lately/hated the drafts, but he should've gotten one more shot after helping to your Franchise become well over a billion dollar valuation. John Harbaugh is still loitering in Baltimore after not doing much since 2012. Mike Tomlin may have a winning record, but hasn't done much since making the 2010 Super Bowl.

 

[Vindicate]

The Jags are a contending team that's getting better. The Titans just fired their coach. Ridley chose the money.

If the money is close (or as @archstanton543 said, if you're going to a legit contender... Chiefs, Ravens, 49ers, Eagles), I think that plays into it. But Ridley now doesn't need to worry about being miserable in Tennessee or what his next payday is. Because a lot of money is a LOT of money.

I feel like this just makes my point though.

A huge contract is the price for being a flailing team (and that's a team with DHop). I feel like that's the evidence right there lol. To say players don't think about other things is silly.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying I disagree with what Groh said and that it felt like a deflection.

 

[Vindicate]

I love the tough guys here that would cry if a 350 lb DL landed on them after hitting them at a full sprint.

It's the same people who think Garcia was weak for not getting up after a liver shot.

 

[203Pat]

He lost Parcells because he started meddling. As Parcells mentioned in the Doc, Bob knew nothing about football.

Carroll was the fall guy when Bobby stepped in and lowballed one of the best RB's in the NFL which led Parcells taking advantage of their incompetence. The drafts and personnel decisions by newly appointed Grier that followed derailed the late 90's teams. Was Grier just following orders by Bob?

They have an unprecedented run, but Thunder fires Bill after a few bad seasons? I didn't like a lot personnel moves Bill was making lately/hated the drafts, but he should've gotten one more shot after helping make your Franchise a billion dollar company. John Harbaugh is still loitering in Baltimore after not doing much since 2012.

I think Kraft has pretty much admitted he could have handed the Parcells era a bit better but if you're going back 30 years to beat him up over something that happened when he was an owner for 5 minutes then it seems like a reach.

Carroll lost his job because he was a players coach and the players were taking advantage of it. He was the anti-Parcells who inherited a good roster that had just come off a Super Bowl and the team steadily declined under his tenure. Yes he wasn't in charge of personnel either but I don’t think that many coaches with one year of head coaching experience got to pick their own players. The Curtis Martin situation was a poison pill contract which they didn't think could work under the cap. In hindsight it was probably worth figuring out and taking the risk but it was risky at the time.

Bill was done here. It was over. He should have been fired immediately after the 2022 season and the Patricia at OC nonsense. To make matters worse Bill allegedly wanted to double down and bring back Patricia only for Kraft to finally say enough is enough while still giving Bill another year. After Brady left Bill went 29-38 with 0 playoff wins in one appearance bottoming out last year with a 4 win season. It became evident he either didn't know how to develop Mac or didn't care enough to invest in positions around Mac to help him succeed. With all these decisions post-Brady why would any owner in their right mind give him another chance to ruin a rookie quarterback?

 

[catent]

The question you should be asking yourself is: why does positivity bother you so much?

Holy, mother**** … this is almost certainly the most ironic post I’ve ever seen on this forum, especially considering who reacted positively to said post.

These same posters slammed fans perpetually positive about the team under BB’s command (post-Brady, of course). Constant, loud negativity, no space for others to take a more optimistic outlook about the direction of the team.

Now look at us. Positivity for the sake of positivity. Oh, how the turntables.

 

[venecol]

Agree on all of this. I still wish they had done more on defense (or will do more on D).

Agree. Really wanted McKinney, who's contract at 16.75M aav w/ 23M guaranteed doesn't seem unreasonable (7.8M cap). He ended up in GB. Don't know if he was pursued, but sometimes players want the $$ and to play for a contender. We're not that. He's the only S with a contract that high. All others are at 7.5M and below. The rest of decent FS are all 30+.

Wilkins contract was outrageous 27.5M aav w/ 82.75 guaranteed and 57.5M at signing (cap 11.5M). Could Pats afford that? Sure, but they also need to extend Barmore. No other DT signed came close to that (highest 13M aav).

I just have to believe Wolf has a plan. I'm going to see how it pans out. Really have no choice.

 

[203Pat]

Agree. Really wanted McKinney, who's contract at 16.75M aav w/ 23M guaranteed doesn't seem unreasonable (7.8M cap). He ended up in GB. Don't know if he was pursued, but sometimes players want the $$ and to play for a contender. We're not that. He's the only S with a contract that high. All others are at 7.5M and below. The rest of decent FS are all 30+.

Wilkins contract was outrageous 27.5M aav w/ 82.75 guaranteed and 57.5M at signing (cap 11.5M). Could Pats afford that? Sure, but they also need to extend Barmore. No other DT signed came close to that (highest 13M aav).

I just have to believe Wolf has a plan. I'm going to see how it pans out. Really have no choice.

I am really hoping to see a Barmore extension sooner rather than later.

 

[venecol]

He lost Parcells because he started meddling. As Parcells mentioned in the Doc, Bob knew nothing about football and should've stayed out of it.

Carroll was the fall guy when Bobby stepped in and lowballed one of the best RB's in the NFL which led Parcells taking advantage of their incompetence. The drafts and personnel decisions by newly appointed Grier that followed derailed the late 90's teams. Was Grier just following orders by Bob?

They have an unprecedented run, but Thunder fires Bill after a few bad seasons? I didn't like a lot personnel moves Bill was making lately/hated the drafts, but he should've gotten one more shot after helping to your Franchise become well over a billion dollar valuation. John Harbaugh is still loitering in Baltimore after not doing much since 2012. Mike Tomlin may have a winning record, but hasn't done much since making the 2010 Super Bowl.

The thought of Kraft as a meddling owner is so funny to me. Kraft is a good businessman. Good businessmen hire people that know the business, to run it. They delegate and hold people accountable. Kraft himself has repeatedly said he doesn't get involved,. Yet, everyone seems to hold him responsible for personnel decisions, despite spending years saying Bill was responsible for 100% of everything that happened at Foxboro. You can't have it both ways. If Kraft was a meddling owner all along, then he deserves more credit than Bill for the dynasty.

As to firing Bill, it clearly was more than just having a few bad seasons. Though 4-13 alone was all the justification he needed, given his statements in '22 and '23 about wanting to win a PO game. Instead the team got progressively worse. Then there's all the dysfunction that was happening, of which we've found out a lot more. There was zero guarantee Bill would've turned this around any more than Mayo can. Zero. And Mayo doesn't come with all the drama. It was time man. That's all.

 

[50-yard-line]

I disagree. The top 3 WR FAs stayed with their teams (re-signed or tagged). After that, there was Ridley, who I don't view as a true WR1. Yet, the Pats were in it to the end, outbidding JAX, with a ridiculous 22M/yr. TEN gave him a bag w/ 50M FULLY guaranteed. Would you have offered 4/100M with 55M FULLY guaranteed to a good WR2 with a "history?"

I'm perfectly fine with the effort made. Let TEN deal with Ridley and his ridiculous contract.

Tennessee is taking the "keep the fans in the seats!" approach to "team-building.

They aren't going to win anything this year, and Hopkins is $18million against the CAP and with 3 void years totaling another almost 10million after that.

Same goes for TE. We all wanted Schultz. He re-signed with his team. There's nothing you can do about that. We re-signed the next best TE, Hunter.

The tackle FAs suck. Pats re-signed the #3 best, Onwenu. If they can sign Smith, then there's hope. We'll see.

QBs? Same. Top 2, Cousins was thrown a bag by the Falcons, coming off an Achilles. Baker re-signed. Pats got the #8 ranked bridge QB, given they have the #3 pick.

Those are the top 3 areas of need: QB, LT, WR. It is what it is.

Can't argue on any of that - wish they'd go strengthen the Defense, though.

 

[maust]

Sorry, you do not see what this is all about. You are blind to anything you do not accept. Completely blind. Whatever. @thecore762 posted a thread after the 1st day of FA, and I expected some disagreement, but there was no disagreement. Why? Because you have banned anyone that would disagree. It is OK to admit the truth and not say, "I see what this is all about" - implying that I am secretly sneaking up and hiding my agenda. You have created an Orchids of Asia support message board for RK - I was very clear in my post - I did not hide anything - your implication otherwise is dishonest. You own PatsFans. It is OK to do what you want with what you own. Admit it and move on. Please to not pretend to have discovered, "what this is all about".

There are lots of people that are jerks, but you never ban them. I can go on and on about various posters that "know what they are doing" and you do not ban them. You always tell us how you bend over backwards. If Dingleberry said, "F-you"? I apologize for him, but really, who cares? Boo Hoo. Grow up and get over it. I can not count the number of guys that said, "F-you" to me. Is that because I am an a-hole? Maybe. That would be a solid proposition.

Do you want me to hold your hand and stroke you? You must be a bore at a bar over a few beers. All you want to do is get home and log on and be part of the Orchids of Asia's message board. Do I feel sorry for you? Please, your constant "Woe is me" act is tiring. So be happy. You do not have to deal with nonsense. No-one is mad at you. Day 1 of FA was a huge success just like @thecore762 said, so was Day 2 and Day 3 are a huge success too. I am sure the Pats will win the Super Bowl with Nick Leverett and Armon Watts.

 

[Fuzz]

Holy, mother**** … this is almost certainly the most ironic post I’ve ever seen on this forum, especially considering who reacted positively to said post.

These same posters slammed fans perpetually positive about the team under BB’s command (post-Brady, of course). Constant, loud negativity, no space for others to take a more optimistic outlook about the direction of the team.

Now look at us. Positivity for the sake of positivity. Oh, how the turntabless

Haha… I agree that some of the reactions to my post are ironic.

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with being overly enthusiastic about the team (fan is the short form of fanatic after all). There’s also generally nothing wrong with being negative about the team as long as it’s not incessant and degrading everyone else’s experience. What I do take issue with, are people like the OP who bash others for being happy/pleased about something. IMO they just want everyone to be as miserable as themselves.

 

[XLIX]

He lost Parcells because he started meddling. As Parcells mentioned in the Doc, Bob knew nothing about football and should've stayed out of it.

Bullcrap. The #1 reason he lost Parcells was because he hired a GM who was the final say on player moves, including the draft. Parcells was pissed he no longer shopped for the groceries.

Having a GM who makes player decisions instead of the HC is how 90% of NFL teams are run - including New England now that Belichick is gone.

 

[Real fan 02]

I've said it a few times now, but it is what it is. They finished at the bottom of the league last season and have a roster that matches their record, which top-tier guys clearly have no interest in coming to. They got outbid for a guy who didn't want to come here and likely wouldn't have come here without an offer closer to $26 or $28 million annually with more guaranteed money, which would have been ridiculous.

They've retained 11 players, including several key ones. On offense, they brought back Onwenu (that would have left a big hole), re-signed Henry and Bourne, replaced Gesicki (Austin Hooper), and have started adding depth at positions of need, albeit they still need to address receiver, and it could come through a trade given how things played out with Ridley since it's clear it's going to be tough to lure guys here.

I'm sure they're not done. But I mean, it is what it is. Takes two sides to get a deal done and what's gone down hasn't been from a lack of effort. The Brissett signing is what it is. He's a decent player and he knows Van Pelt's system and he'll hold it down for a year for whoever they draft next month. They weren't getting Mayfield, Cousins, etc.

But on offense, the team stinks - nobody wants to play here. It is what it is. And it's going to remain challenging until that changes.

Meanwhile, they've also quietly made some smart moves to bring key guys back on defense, (Jennings, and Dugger), and added Sione Takitaki, who is actually a pretty good player. That group is also getting back Daniel Eukale and Christian Gonzalez, albeit they still could use another corner and additional secondary depth, along with more help up front.

I mean, it's March 13th. It sucks Bill's gone, I would have preferred hiring Wolf/Highsmith and keeping Belichick, but that obviously wouldn't have worked, and again - there's nothing we can do about it. I mean, nobody's thrilled with what's gone down. But that's where we're at.

And the two you mentioned aren't here for reasons that have already been covered and were removed due to posts that had nothing to do with football. I'm not going to rehash that again.

So I guess the question I have is, what else do you want people to say? Are we supposed to spend the offseason lamenting Bill's departure? Call for Kraft's head? Scream for Jonathan to force his dad to sell the team?

Thank you Ian, Well put! As a fan speaking for myself, and I'm sure a few others. I was optimistic that we could add some tier 1 players. However I give the team credit for retaining most of thier own players. This season to me is about getting the QB position right, and developing him the right way. I still think there are moves to be made. Likely by trade as you've mentioned. As I've mentioned to you the road the team should be taking is going after some speed on the outside with Hollywood, and hopefully Thornton can stay healthy and be a real contributing player on the outside. Just my thoughts.