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1960Pats

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It feels weird that we are now discussing what games they might possibly win instead of which ones they might lose...

It was a good run.
I've been following the NYFL since the late 50's and I've never seen anything close to this run. The 60's Packers, 70's Steelers and 80's 49ers were the closest but didn't have the longevity that the B&B show had.

Three SB wins with three AFC titles in four years, followed by nine years with two more AFC titles and an undefeated season, capped off by three more SB wins and four more AFC titles.

As Pats fans we've been blessed.
 
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1960Pats

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This was a write-up by a former NFL player and current scout:
"Not only did Harry run his routes crisply on the regular, he was also able to run a wide assortment of routes in Arizona State’s offense, unlike the first two wide receivers I evaluated this spring, A.J. Brown and D.K. Metcalf, both out of Ole Miss. That makes it much more likely that transitioning to running routes in the NFL won’t be much of a problem at all for Harry.

Although Harry is of a similar stature to Metcalf at 6’2 3/8 and 228 pounds*, Harry’s routes were a helluva lot sharper than Metcalf’s were in the games that I watched for both guys. He may not be as fast as Metcalf (Harry’s 4.53 40 time compared to Metcalf’s crazy fast 4.33), but his superior route running is probably going to give Harry an edge at least early on in their careers when it comes to production on the short and intermediate routes in the NFL."
Does the guy who wrote that assessment have a connection to the Seahawks?
I don't follow the NCAA, but looking at the numbers I'm taking 4.3 speed over 4.5 speed, especially when everything else is close to similar.
 

moosekill

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
Brady was going to be gone in two or three years regardless. He wanted a large multi year contract to stay with the Patriots, and I am not sure he really wanted to stay here anyways. The Patriots spent a lot of capital trying to keep stretching that window year after year. Posters rip their drafts, but if you are in place to win every year do you get rid of the veteran who has gotten you to the dance or do you cut the better player for a player who will probably be better in a couple years. The veteran gives you a better chance to win the superbowl, but makes the team worse in a couple of years. Continuously kicking Brady's payments down the road, whether it was a year or three still guaranteed that eventually we were going to end up in cap hell when we were paying his contract when he had retired. This was the rip the band aid off year. Pay the penalties for pushing Brady's $$$'s down the road this year, don't go crazy resigning the older veterans to larger long term contracts, take the hit this year and rebuild next. I think it ends up being a huge stroke of luck because of covid. Next year the Patriots will have cap $$'s to spend while most of the rest of the league is in cap hell and cutting players. Next draft is a great qb draft and it looks like the patriots will have some high draft picks to use. We will see what happens the rest of the season, but the future certainly isn't as bleak as posters here make it.
 

Thelonious

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
I am absolutely loving this season. Kinda like being a Pats fan in the Bledsoe era all over again. I am still hoping for the playoffs....the more games we play, the better. Sure, it sucked to watch them crap the bed on Sunday...but I enjoyed watching Meyers make some plays and seeing Keene catch a ball. Our secondary is still very good....except for that time Gilmore let Kittle under cut him for a 3rd down conversion early in the game.

Patriots football is always compelling to me...and in the midst of a transition..there's more of a developmental & team building aspect to it than there was the last 10-15 years where we were only concerned about reloading and we only really got UP for the big games knowing we would beat the bad teams 90% of the time. Right now, we can lose any game.....there's an unknown element to it....very exciting times...even with the pandemic.
I agree completely. I've been a fan since they were the Boston Patriots, and I've enjoyed many a "down" season over the years. Such years don't offer the giddy flights of a championship year, but it's fun sometimes to be so low that you just know somewhere in that mess is the stuff of rebirth. It's a different sort of fun. Provides lots to talk about, if nothing else.
 

203Pat

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
One of the things I like about the Pats under BB is that they look at each season as a new season and a work in progress. That's how they went from 5-11 to a dynasty almost overnight. The key, as @Joker mentions upstream, is at QB. Once the league Polianed the rules and turned into a Fantsy Football fan's dream, it's been more difficult to win with just a defense and a so-so QB. This year doesn't look hopeful, but they could be back on top next year.
I agree there could be a quick turnaround if things go right but with the way we’ve drafted lately it will be almost impossible unless the drafts get significantly better.
 

BelizePats

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
Brady was going to be gone in two or three years regardless. He wanted a large multi year contract to stay with the Patriots, and I am not sure he really wanted to stay here anyways. The Patriots spent a lot of capital trying to keep stretching that window year after year. Posters rip their drafts, but if you are in place to win every year do you get rid of the veteran who has gotten you to the dance or do you cut the better player for a player who will probably be better in a couple years. The veteran gives you a better chance to win the superbowl, but makes the team worse in a couple of years. Continuously kicking Brady's payments down the road, whether it was a year or three still guaranteed that eventually we were going to end up in cap hell when we were paying his contract when he had retired. This was the rip the band aid off year. Pay the penalties for pushing Brady's $$$'s down the road this year, don't go crazy resigning the older veterans to larger long term contracts, take the hit this year and rebuild next. I think it ends up being a huge stroke of luck because of covid. Next year the Patriots will have cap $$'s to spend while most of the rest of the league is in cap hell and cutting players. Next draft is a great qb draft and it looks like the patriots will have some high draft picks to use. We will see what happens the rest of the season, but the future certainly isn't as bleak as posters here make it.
Love this sane take. Thank you!
 

1960Pats

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Brady was going to be gone in two or three years regardless. He wanted a large multi year contract to stay with the Patriots, and I am not sure he really wanted to stay here anyways. The Patriots spent a lot of capital trying to keep stretching that window year after year. Posters rip their drafts, but if you are in place to win every year do you get rid of the veteran who has gotten you to the dance or do you cut the better player for a player who will probably be better in a couple years. The veteran gives you a better chance to win the superbowl, but makes the team worse in a couple of years. Continuously kicking Brady's payments down the road, whether it was a year or three still guaranteed that eventually we were going to end up in cap hell when we were paying his contract when he had retired. This was the rip the band aid off year. Pay the penalties for pushing Brady's $$$'s down the road this year, don't go crazy resigning the older veterans to larger long term contracts, take the hit this year and rebuild next. I think it ends up being a huge stroke of luck because of covid. Next year the Patriots will have cap $$'s to spend while most of the rest of the league is in cap hell and cutting players. Next draft is a great qb draft and it looks like the patriots will have some high draft picks to use. We will see what happens the rest of the season, but the future certainly isn't as bleak as posters here make it.
It's one season and in the NYFL you can go from worst to first in one year. Except for the jetes, who seem to have mastered the worst to worst move.

I'm no cap guru, but it seems to me that one player, even Brady, doesn't have that much of an impact. Especially when he takes 25m a year. Plenty of teams are doling out much more these days.

If they find a decent QB they'll be fine.
 

brdmaverick

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What good is a QB with no offensive weapons though? We are quick to throw cam under the bus but look at brady last year vs. This year.

Bill has blown the past few drafts which is why we are here. This team needs an offensive makeover. Right now there is no one on offense you can say has "potential" to grow into a star player. In a league becoming more passing based that is pathetic.

We desperately need "a guy " whether that is via draft or by trade
I’m in the camp that suggests the team would be this bad even with Brady. The offense was inept last year and didn’t get any better.

last year they had the boogeyman defense at the beginning of the year to hide some flaws
 

PatsFanInVa

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2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
I agree completely. I've been a fan since they were the Boston Patriots, and I've enjoyed many a "down" season over the years. Such years don't offer the giddy flights of a championship year, but it's fun sometimes to be so low that you just know somewhere in that mess is the stuff of rebirth. It's a different sort of fun. Provides lots to talk about, if nothing else.
First test of my mind's ability to process a discontinuity regarding the Pats... when I heard they whaaaaaaaat weren't going to be my Boston Patriots anymore (even though a couple years earlier, I had moved to Virginia...)

I think that's why it was world-shaking to me when they changed to New England, I held onto my Boston teams when I moved. Bruins, Red Sox, Celtics... and Patriots. After some processing I got my head around it. Really glad they never went to St. Louis though (and kept beating the Rams to rub in their point about St. Louis.)

In other Super Bowls With The Pats In Them-related news, the Philadelphia Iggles turn out to be named after the WPA Eagle from the 30s.

Also, the original name of the Cardinals way back in 1920 or so came from the fact that the owner of the team recycled the uniforms of a team called the Maroons, but they had faded. The guy said "They're not faded Maroon, they're Cardinal red." From there the team name spread to football, college football, and baseball (I guess.)

I do not know whether there was a game that ended with the predecessor team scoring 5 points.
 

upstater1

Pro Bowl Player
I’m in the camp that suggests the team would be this bad even with Brady. The offense was inept last year and didn’t get any better.

last year they had the boogeyman defense at the beginning of the year to hide some flaws

The biggest problem last year was having 4 of 5 OL injured. That gave our offense absolutely no chance. Brady was throwing the ball away quick because Marshall Newhouse could not block. Like having me out there.

His WR crew was actually not very different than the one that did well the previous year. With the exception of Gronk, but even Gronk was hobbled in 2018.
 

Thelonious

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
I have watched too much football to not have faith in Belichick and McDaniels. In Belichick's first stint in New England as a DC, he was the difference that brought us to the 96 Super Bowl. Then he went to the Jets w/ Parcells and that team was a bear to play against. I wanted Belichick in the 1990s, and when he came to New England, I was totally convinced he would lead us to Super Bowls. He has ALWAYS been great. He will turn this around.

I have a lot of faith in Josh as well. And I am not blinded, someone who simply likes whoever is running the Patriots. I did not much like Bill O'Brien's stint here. I blame BOB for a Super Bowl loss in fact. McDaniels has something else, and that's an ability to maximize the field like few other OCs. Josh will figure this out.

That being said, I see huge deficiencies in personnel at key positions (wideouts on offense, front 7 on defense) that will make this season an uphill climb. My advice: enjoy the rebuild. Have faith in BB and Josh. They will turn this around. Stop feeling like the world is falling down. This team is rebuilding the right way (cap space, youth) and the turnaround will come quick, maybe even next year.

Build on these players on D: JC Jackson, J Jones, Dugger, JJ Williams, M Bryant, , Adrian Phillips, Anfernee, Winovich, Uche.
Build on these O players: Harris, Wynn, Thuney, Mason, Onwenu, Andrews.

I have no idea what we have in the 2 rookie TEs but obviously they will be around for a bit.

The point is, these players are the foundation for the team that will compete at the top of the league. Combined with what I anticipate is a draft with picks in the teens of every round, and a huge salary cap advantage, and Bill will be in optimal position to find more young players and to season them with prime free agents, who will become available with the new cap ramifications.

My only big concern really--outside of WR--is the front 7 on D. Notice I didn't include Bentley as a building block. He's a fine player, and occupies a central role in Belichick's D--but I wonder if this is the D of our future.Having a run plugger in the middle when our DTs are 2 gapping is critical. But now that you see the college game creeping into the NFL so much, it makes me wonder if we can't get by with the likes of Bentley anymore. It was just deflating to watch him chase an RB in the open field. Bentley did everything right. He diagnosed the play. He got himself into perfect position to stop it. Garoppolo waited, and even got the ball to the RB late, and then HORROR the guy just ran right by Bentley. We are so limited right now in our front 7. The DBs are being exposed.

So--I am still very optimistic about our future. But I'd like to see a total focus on WRs and LBs in the fraft and FA next year.

We are hurting there.
I too am optimistic about the future, but I think a realistic pessimism about the present dreary group and responding accordingly is step one in building toward a (theoretical) more sunny day.
 

PATSYLICIOUS

Pro Bowl Player
The problem now is our secondary is showing its age, so what had been a yearly strength ‘dynasty v2’ will now be yet another need. Gilmore has 1 year left after this and might even be gone before. The mccourtys are showing their age and chung is even older so thats 2 key leaders from the era. Jcj I believe is an rfa so thats one more year affordable then will have to pay or lose him.

so on top of dl, lb, qb, wr, te , db will soon be a need. Of course te and lb is tbd with young unproven talent there. But we have a long road back it appears.
 

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