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2020 Patriots Season:
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Wozzy

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
This team needs a QB. Receiving weapons without a QB are about as useful as a knuckle in my johnson.

Otherwise this team is has young talent at every position group, with double digit draft picks and some of the most cap space in the NFL next offseason. It will be a quick turnaround if they find the QB.
 

upstater1

Pro Bowl Player
Yeah well, your memory is faulty to the point of delusion. My recollection is that most observers were surprised that the Pats chose Harry, who is slow, lazy and clueless. Those who doubted the wisdom of the choice have seen their reservations amply validated. The Pats have, particularly in recent years and particularly re wide receivers, sucked at drafting and at trades. What we need now are not deluded fanboys spewing skewed recollections but hard honesty and effective action. At this point, it seems Bill cannot provide either, as an honest empirical evaluation of his "accomplishments" in this regard will reveal to any honest observer. If your adulation of Bill requires you to express faith in his perfection in all things, I can't help you. You need to toughen up a little and master the art of honesty.

You call N'Keal Harry lazy but you're so lazy you can't even bother to do a little search. And I know why, it's because you're afraid of being wrong, so you'd rather call people delusional than actually read the posts from that day: Welcome To The Pats N'Keal Harry

That isn't even the only thread. There are lots of them.
 

upstater1

Pro Bowl Player

This was a write-up by a former NFL player and current scout:
"Not only did Harry run his routes crisply on the regular, he was also able to run a wide assortment of routes in Arizona State’s offense, unlike the first two wide receivers I evaluated this spring, A.J. Brown and D.K. Metcalf, both out of Ole Miss. That makes it much more likely that transitioning to running routes in the NFL won’t be much of a problem at all for Harry.

Although Harry is of a similar stature to Metcalf at 6’2 3/8 and 228 pounds*, Harry’s routes were a helluva lot sharper than Metcalf’s were in the games that I watched for both guys. He may not be as fast as Metcalf (Harry’s 4.53 40 time compared to Metcalf’s crazy fast 4.33), but his superior route running is probably going to give Harry an edge at least early on in their careers when it comes to production on the short and intermediate routes in the NFL."
 

mgteich

PatsFans.com Veteran
PatsFans.com Supporter
This team needs a QB. Receiving weapons without a QB are about as useful as a knuckle in my johnson.

Otherwise this team is has young talent at every position group, with double digit draft picks and some of the most cap space in the NFL next offseason. It will be a quick turnaround if they find the QB.
It seems that we will try to find a QB in free agency for the usual $25M a year (less in year one) and/or use our 2022 first to move up in the draft to choose a quarterback.

We have a lot of cap money. This can be used now or in the off-season to secure WR with a 3 year contract. Of course, Bill tried that last year. There is little reason to believe that a WR signed in the next offseason will perform better in 2021 than one who is traded for now, and who would have a 1/2 year in the system.

I agree that we have youngsters and vets at all positions other than QB, WR, TE and NT.
 

Lavictoire

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
Pats have hit rock bottom but I still think somehow Bellichick will turn this lemon into lemonade --as long as the players dont give up. We saw the Pats play competitively against Seattle and the Chiefs. They may not win but they dont need to lose in beat downs either.
 
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KontradictioN

Probably the nicest guy on the forum
PatsFans.com Supporter
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
You call N'Keal Harry lazy but you're so lazy you can't even bother to do a little search. And I know why, it's because you're afraid of being wrong, so you'd rather call people delusional than actually read the posts from that day: Welcome To The Pats N'Keal Harry

That isn't even the only thread. There are lots of them.

My concern about him has become a reality. There was a reason he caught so many contested balls... and it wasn’t a good one.
 

upstater1

Pro Bowl Player

My concern about him has become a reality. There was a reason he caught so many contested balls... and it wasn’t a good one.

I've been killing Harry on these boards. I am not a fan at all. I'm just trying to bring a little reality to all of this. Drafting him was always going to be a 50/50 proposition. It's just the way it is. And that goes for like 99% of these guys.
 

BobDigital

Pro Bowl Player
Looking at our roster we have a long rebuild in in front of us. Here's the list of keepers we have that are under 27

Offense: Damien Harris, Wynn, Mason, Thuney, and maybe Harry/Byrd (as depth options, hopefully Harry is more)
Defense: Winovich, Bentley, J, Jones, Jackson, Williams(Maybe?) Cowart/Butler (as depth options)

Anyone important I'm missing? Also a lot of those are exactly 27 years old so just at the edge of a 4-5 year window.
 

Thelonious

Third String But Playing on Special Teams

This was a write-up by a former NFL player and current scout:
"Not only did Harry run his routes crisply on the regular, he was also able to run a wide assortment of routes in Arizona State’s offense, unlike the first two wide receivers I evaluated this spring, A.J. Brown and D.K. Metcalf, both out of Ole Miss. That makes it much more likely that transitioning to running routes in the NFL won’t be much of a problem at all for Harry.

Although Harry is of a similar stature to Metcalf at 6’2 3/8 and 228 pounds*, Harry’s routes were a helluva lot sharper than Metcalf’s were in the games that I watched for both guys. He may not be as fast as Metcalf (Harry’s 4.53 40 time compared to Metcalf’s crazy fast 4.33), but his superior route running is probably going to give Harry an edge at least early on in their careers when it comes to production on the short and intermediate routes in the NFL."

Well, I don't know who this "former player" is, but based on his bizarre, bonehaded take on Harry, I'd call him eminently qualified to join the Pats' scouting department, WR division, where he can join all the other incompetents. To call Harry a "crisp route runner" is simply ridiculous. Who in their right mind would claim this, based on his NFL performance to date? He stumbles around out there at half speed. Looks more like Brownian Motion than "crisp route running." I really don't know what to tell you. Your post is laughable. Harry is a flaming bust. Dump him, and watch the utter indifference of the other teams to his availablility. He'll not be in the league next year. I hope for his sake that he actually learned some sellable skills in college, or he'll wind up hustling tips at some carwash.
 

upstater1

Pro Bowl Player
Well, I don't know who this "former player" is, but based on his bizarre, bonehaded take on Harry, I'd call him eminently qualified to join the Pats' scouting department, WR division, where he can join all the other incompetents. To call Harry a "crisp route runner" is simply ridiculous. Who in their right mind would claim this, based on his NFL performance to date? He stumbles around out there at half speed. Looks more like Brownian Motion than "crisp route running." I really don't know what to tell you. Your post is laughable. Harry is a flaming bust. Dump him, and watch the utter indifference of the other teams to his availablility. He'll not be in the league next year. I hope for his sake that he actually learned some sellable skills in college, or he'll wind up hustling tips at some carwash.

You're likely the worst poster in this entire thread. I gave you evidence that a lot of fans, scouts, and noted NFL scouts, weighed in positively on the selection.

Forget about what anyone else said.

YOU said I was delusional for remembering that.

Admit you were wrong and move on. I presented you evidence. I know the fashionable thing is to ignore the evidence. But if you're going to call someone delusional and then deny that you did it, you're not even worth responding to.
 

Thelonious

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
You're likely the worst poster in this entire thread. I gave you evidence that a lot of fans, scouts, and noted NFL scouts, weighed in positively on the selection.

Forget about what anyone else said.

YOU said I was delusional for remembering that.

Admit you were wrong and move on. I presented you evidence. I know the fashionable thing is to ignore the evidence. But if you're going to call someone delusional and then deny that you did it, you're not even worth responding to.
"Evidence"? Good gracious. An unnamed "former player."

No need to respond: I am not worth it, you will recall. I am the worst poster ever.
 

TommyBrady12

Hall of Fame Poster
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner

This was a write-up by a former NFL player and current scout:
"Not only did Harry run his routes crisply on the regular, he was also able to run a wide assortment of routes in Arizona State’s offense, unlike the first two wide receivers I evaluated this spring, A.J. Brown and D.K. Metcalf, both out of Ole Miss. That makes it much more likely that transitioning to running routes in the NFL won’t be much of a problem at all for Harry.

Although Harry is of a similar stature to Metcalf at 6’2 3/8 and 228 pounds*, Harry’s routes were a helluva lot sharper than Metcalf’s were in the games that I watched for both guys. He may not be as fast as Metcalf (Harry’s 4.53 40 time compared to Metcalf’s crazy fast 4.33), but his superior route running is probably going to give Harry an edge at least early on in their careers when it comes to production on the short and intermediate routes in the NFL."

Herm Edwards also raved about Harry...should have known lol
 

Thelonious

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
How in the world did you miss the entire thread I linked to?
What, you're giving homework now?

IF (if) I had any doubts that Harry stinks, I might bother looking further into the matter. But life is short, and there is a very limited amount of time I am willing to spend immersed in these strange delusions of yours concerning N'Keal's greatness.
 

brdmaverick

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
I think posters minimize the incredible skill, luck, and health it takes to win just one SB. This team went 3/4 and 3/5. Amazing.
For sure. I like to use this as an example.

During the 10 year Super Bowl drought between SB 39 and SB 49, the Pats were considered a top four team almost every year. Each year we pointed to one excuse as the reason why we lost. usually it was 'oh, if only this guy or that guy didn't get hurt'

Well, in 2014 the Pats had the best offense in the league and had their deepest cornerback group.

The team had injury-prone players like Gronk, Edelman, and Amendola, BUT guess what.....they were ALL completely healthy going into the Super Bowl. This is our year right?

Well, it was, we won...…….but even with our team in great position both talent and health-wise, we were still ONE YARD away from coming up short.
 

Hyped

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
I am absolutely loving this season. Kinda like being a Pats fan in the Bledsoe era all over again. I am still hoping for the playoffs....the more games we play, the better. Sure, it sucked to watch them crap the bed on Sunday...but I enjoyed watching Meyers make some plays and seeing Keene catch a ball. Our secondary is still very good....except for that time Gilmore let Kittle under cut him for a 3rd down conversion early in the game.

Patriots football is always compelling to me...and in the midst of a transition..there's more of a developmental & team building aspect to it than there was the last 10-15 years where we were only concerned about reloading and we only really got UP for the big games knowing we would beat the bad teams 90% of the time. Right now, we can lose any game.....there's an unknown element to it....very exciting times...even with the pandemic.
 

RIpats88

In the Starting Line-Up
What good is a QB with no offensive weapons though? We are quick to throw cam under the bus but look at brady last year vs. This year.

Bill has blown the past few drafts which is why we are here. This team needs an offensive makeover. Right now there is no one on offense you can say has "potential" to grow into a star player. In a league becoming more passing based that is pathetic.

We desperately need "a guy " whether that is via draft or by trade
 

TheRainMaker

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
If this season ends with anything less than 6 wins, Kraft will say to BB, "Remember that clock that started before Brady bailed you out for 20 years in 2001. Well, it has restarted"
 

1960Pats

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
I wish I could be optimistic but I just am not seeing it. This is an old slow roster and most of the younger players are completely unproven or inconsistent at best.

There is clearly no long term plan at QB.

Our two best RB's will be free agents next year, Edelman looks like he is done and Harry is a bust.

Our offensive line has some promising young players but our two best lineman will also be free agents next year and I still am not fully sold on Wynn.

Our TE group may be even worse than our receiver group and that is saying something. We have no idea if the rookies can play as they haven't gotten much of a chance, Izzo is a practice squad level player, and I hope to never see Lacosse in a Patriots uniform again.

Our defensive line has one promising young player in Winovich, who all of a sudden is in the doghouse. Then Guy, who has been our most consistent D-lineman is a FA, Wise who seems to be finding a role is a FA, Butler and Simon who are solid rotational players are FA's. Maybe Cowhert continues to develop but we will still need a ton of pieces depending on who we let walk.

The linebacking core is another disaster. Bentley is being asked to do way too much and is failing miserably. Outside of him, Copeland is a special teamer, and Jennings and Uche are completely unproven and Calhoun is another free agent. Maybe Hightower comes back and helps but I wouldn't be surprised if we have seen the last of him as a Patriot.

The secondary is the strength of the team but I think many (myself included) believe Gilmore is playing his last season as a Patriot (if he doesn't get moved in the next two weeks) and they still have yet to pay JC Jackson or he walks. Neither McCourty has looked good this year with Jason struggling particularly badly and one would assume one if not both of them are gone next year. Brooks is a FA and Chung may be gone as well. That leaves us with Jon Jones who I still believe in but has struggled quite a bit this year, Joejuan Williams who looks like he is heading into bust territory, Duggar who looks up and down but has deftly showed some promise, and Adrian Phillips who has been solid as well.

I know this seems like a "sky is falling" type post and maybe it is but I have been *****ing about Bill's personnel moves for the last few years and I think without Brady it exposed just how bad recent drafts and signings have been. I know he will re-sign a few of these guys but I don't know how he can turn this around with the state that this roster is in right now. To me this looks like a 2-3 year process at absolute best to be a real contender again.

One of the things I like about the Pats under BB is that they look at each season as a new season and a work in progress. That's how they went from 5-11 to a dynasty almost overnight. The key, as @Joker mentions upstream, is at QB. Once the league Polianed the rules and turned into a Fantsy Football fan's dream, it's been more difficult to win with just a defense and a so-so QB. This year doesn't look hopeful, but they could be back on top next year.
 

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