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The inside story of the Patriots’ fall to rock bottom in the Bill Belichick era

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name the pro-bowl and all-pro players bill has brought in as foundational pieces the last 4 years.....there are none. roster has gotten worse.

4 years.....4 years and the roster has gotten worse. that's not on the QB or a successful "rebuild" not a single pro-bowl player. this idea that Bill has built this amazing super bowl caliber roster/offense that is just being held back by poor QB play is not based in reality.

the reality is bill has built a mediocre to horrible offense that is also being hampered by poor QB play. we are woefully lacking talent.
Marcus Jones & Barmore are two Pro Bowl type players, Marcus was elected, Barmore an alternate.

Foundational players: Barmore, Keion White, Wise, Godchaux, Gonzalez, Peppers, Dugger, Marcus Jones, Onwenu, Rham, Pop Douglas.

Sprinkle in some solid vets: Judon, Bourne, Wilson, Henry.

It's wait and see on some OL who are young and could still be great players for us: Strange and Sow.
 
People forget about the Miami game, some of the plays he made to get out of the pocket and extend the play were eye-opening. For a brief time during that game I was feeling very enthusiastic about Mac Jones. I want to know where that Mac went.
First Miami game?

I thought he was horrible. (I also thought he had a much better game the following week against the Jets, because they pressured him and he didn't wilt, and generally optimized his chances).

This is what I posted about him the night of the first Miami game:

"He is not seeing the game, not taking command, not playing the head games a QB needs to play with a defense to put his offense and the OL in optimal positions.

He's jittery, he's skittish, he's throwing off his back foot. He's taking bad sacks. No wonder he's so inaccurate. His long throws are lollipops that bounce off the moon. There is zero confidence he can get anything done back there.

I gave Mac the benefit of the doubt until now, but you can't have a guy cowering back there and not controlling the game. He is the biggest problem. People will talk about the lack of offensive weapons, but the fact is, the QB controls the game, especially at home, and he doesn't maximize his talents or the meager talents of his WRs.

Bill O'Brien has to see this, but it's Mac's 3rd year and I'm not sure what can be done at this point.

I don't have the patience with him to see if he develops into a Geno Smith maybe 5 years down the line. I don't think he will ever even be a Geno Smith.

The O-line will get better, the continuity will improve, Mac will get more comfortable behind it, but when it's crunch time and the defense sends the house in crucial situations, when the heat turns up, especially against good teams, Mac will not answer the call. The good play we'll see from him in the coming weeks will be a mirage."
 
I realized something today: The only people I know that want BB fired are a smattering of idiots on this forum and fans of other NFL teams.
Yeah, when you step away from this forum, there's not as much vitriol. There's some, but there's a lot of support for him out there in the gen'l fanbase.
 
That is the league rule. It is an unwritten rule around the league that you don’t poach from the coaching staff you are leaving when you become head coach.
I know and I was surprised when Josh took some of the coaches with him. BB didn’t seem upset though.
 
LOl, I like you a lot as a poster, but man do we disagree on this!

He won't be rehabbed, he'll never have a career. Nathan Peterman lasted several more years so I guess Mac will keep playing football. He's not Curtis Painter / Tim Boyle level, but he is Nathan Peterman.

Now that he is broken, I tend to doubt he can be rehabbed. Typically when you start seeing ghosts, it is very hard to break that habit. He is a head case right now.

But if he can get his head back on straight, I do think he has at least a shot to be a decent QB in the right system.
 
I think their system works as long as the player produces at the top % of players in that position. I look at it like this: WR #A is the top of the market and he plays at the top of the position, then the ROI is a wash. He's the #1 guy and has the #1 production, so everything is fine. If they pay a guy 75% of the market and he produces in the top 95%, then that player has a very high value. If a player is paid 50% of the market but only produces 60% of the market production, that player still has better value than say the #2 WR who performs at 80% of the market but is paid at 99% of market for the position. Follow? I feel they don't want to be paying 90-100% of the market when they are almost assured that player will underperform the contract, whereas the guy paid at 50% of the market has a very good chance of being on the right side of production. All this is skewed by Brady's performance, because he was able to raise guys up and get them to a higher % of ROI.
I think that's true to a certain extent, and I get what you're saying and think it's a valid point. At the same time, what's also interesting is that I also can't recall over the last two decades them having a player who was even either in the top 6 or 8 (outside of Moss & Welker) in terms of overall production, touchdowns, etc., even despite the lower salary, albeit I can't remember what Moss' salary was after he was acquired, nor do I remember off the top of my head if they bumped his salary. Aside from that, in the post-Edelman era, Meyers and Bourne are the only players I can recall recently who even approached 800+ yards (Bourne had 800 in 2021, Meyers had 866, and 804 in 2022), which obviously makes your point in terms of what they were being paid.

Looking back after doing some digging, here's where their top receivers have fallen in terms of receiving yards as it relates to the rest of the league's top 25 in a given season:

2000
Terry Glenn 963yds, 6 TDs (20th)
Troy Brown 944yds, 4 TDs (21st)

2001
Troy Brown 1199yds, 5 TDs (10th)

2002
None

2003
None

2004
None

2005
(NFL's stat tool had an issue with this season ...)

2006
None

2007
Randy Moss 1493yds, 23 TDs (2nd)
Wes Welker 1175yds, 8 TDs (11th)

2008
Wes Welker 1165yds, 3 TDs (9th)
Randy Moss 1008yds, 11 TDs (21st)

2009
Wes Welker 1348yds, 4 TDs (2nd)
Randy Moss 1264yds, 13 TDs (5th)
2010
None

2011
Wes Welker 1569yds, 9 TDs (2nd)
Rob Gronkowski 1327yds, 17 (6th)

2012
Wes Welker 1354yds, 6 TDs (8th)

2013
Julian Edelman 1056yds, 6 TDs (21st)

2014
Rob Gronkowski 1124yds, 12 TDs (15th)
Julian Edelman 972yds, 4 TDs (25th)

2015
Rob Gronkowksi 1176yds, 11 TDs (12th)

2016
Julian Edelman 1106, 3 TDs (13th)

2017
Rob Gronkowski 1084yds, 8 TDs (10th)
Brandin Cooks 1082, 7 TDs (11th)

2018
None

2019
Julian Edelman 1117yds, 6 TDs (18th)

2020
None

2021
None

2022
None

2023 (Through Week 17)
None

So that hopefully provides some context in terms of where New England's "top guy" fell as it relates to the rest of the league.

Now, the other part of this argument is going to be where New England's offense fell overall, since through most of the Brady era, it was a collective effort.

Here's how that breaks down:
2000 - 22nd
2001 - 19th
2002 - 21st
2003 - 17th
2004 - 7th
2005 - 7th
2006 - 11th
2007 - 1st
2008 - 5th
2009 - 3rd
2010 - 8th
2011 - 2nd
2012 - 1st
2013 - 7th
2014 - 11th
2015 - 6th
2016 - 4th
2017 - 1st
2018 - 5th
2019 - 15th
2020 - 27th
2021 - 15th
2022 - 26th
2023 (Through Week 17) - 28th

I don't think they look at stats, per se. I think they look at the whole picture, real money ball analysis type stuff, not just fantasy football numbers. I think they analyze everything.
And I think, to your point, if you look at the above, the "big picture" comes into play because they collectively had groups that were competitive, to the point they were still top 10/11 despite not really always having a top 10 guy, albeit Brady made that go. The issue right now is, until they find someone that can execute remotely close to his level, it's going to be challenging to put a group together that's competitive enough to give that guy a chance.
 
I realized something today: The only people I know that want BB fired are a smattering of idiots on this forum and fans of other NFL teams.
I don't know a single person who thinks we should keep him in the current role of both GM and HC. Some people, myself included, would have no problem keeping him on as HC but Belichick the GM has absolutely 100% got to go.

Do you think he should stay on in his current role another year?
 
First Miami game?

I thought he was horrible. (I also thought he had a much better game the following week against the Jets, because they pressured him and he didn't wilt, and generally optimized his chances).

This is what I posted about him the night of the first Miami game:

"He is not seeing the game, not taking command, not playing the head games a QB needs to play with a defense to put his offense and the OL in optimal positions.

He's jittery, he's skittish, he's throwing off his back foot. He's taking bad sacks. No wonder he's so inaccurate. His long throws are lollipops that bounce off the moon. There is zero confidence he can get anything done back there.

I gave Mac the benefit of the doubt until now, but you can't have a guy cowering back there and not controlling the game. He is the biggest problem. People will talk about the lack of offensive weapons, but the fact is, the QB controls the game, especially at home, and he doesn't maximize his talents or the meager talents of his WRs.

Bill O'Brien has to see this, but it's Mac's 3rd year and I'm not sure what can be done at this point.

I don't have the patience with him to see if he develops into a Geno Smith maybe 5 years down the line. I don't think he will ever even be a Geno Smith.

The O-line will get better, the continuity will improve, Mac will get more comfortable behind it, but when it's crunch time and the defense sends the house in crucial situations, when the heat turns up, especially against good teams, Mac will not answer the call. The good play we'll see from him in the coming weeks will be a mirage."
Pretty much accurate on Mac all around. At the time I thought he would get better if the line got better. Was I ever wrong on that. I know he does not have great arm strength, I thought he could be sort of a Chad Pennington. But he never seemed to even try to put some steam on the ball. His default throw is always a touch pass. Maybe that works in todays practices which seem to never be full speed full speed practices, but that does not work in real games. Also very disappointed his throwing mechanics and footwork continued to be awful. While he might not be able to overcome nature in terms arm strength, I thought he would strive to perfect throwing mechanics which is something can be improved upon. At the end watching him continually throw off of his back foot was painful to watch.
 
Beyond the bad drafting there’s some major miscues the last 5 years or so from Bill.

- everyone knew Josh was a head coaching candidate. Why was there not someone groomed to take over the OC if Josh left? With no succession plan in place Bill made the worst decision of his career that has had a domino effect to this day in hiring Patricia/Judge to run the O

- why do we have the smallest staff in the league, made up of friends and family of Bill, including a lacrosse coach? Bill has set this up so he’s working with people he wants to be around, not for having the best possible coaches/staff in place.

- hamstringing O’Brien shows Bill won’t place nice if he doesn’t get his way. No way can we bring in a GM and think Bill will go along with it.

We need to move on to rebuild the franchise, including players and staff. Bill should get all the praise he deserves for what he brought to the Pats: build the statue, give him his red jacket, etc…but Sunday should be the last day Bill coaches the Pats.
 
I think generally coaches have a right to leave if they’re getting a promotion.
Yes, but the only promotions are somebody that isn’t a coordinator being promoted to O/D/ST coordinator or somebody that isn’t a head coach being promoted to head coach. Titles like passing/run game coordinator and assistant/associate head coach aren’t real promotions for this purpose. They can still be blocked.
 
Those homers will tell you they're the better fans. Would they be wrong?



MSN
The homers will always be the first to shout out what year they became a fan and delegate who gets to root for the team and in what fashion. The homers are the gatekeepers to fandom and we all must bow before them.
 
ALL the winners had good to great QBs.

Exactly

And that's why Bill has to be held accountable for forcing out a great QB and then even if your rebuttal is that he didn't, he certainly needs to be held accountable for not finding one in 4 years.

It's literally his job.
 
Team Bill has decided their last resort is to pull all the blame squarely on Mac. With that being the argument who was it that chose Mac? Seeing what happened with Mac why would you want to give the same guy another chance to pick the next quarterback?
 
It's almost like you need both or something but don't let the idiots around here that love going back and forth on which one was the reason for our Super Bowls know that or they might do something productive with their lives.

How do you explain Brady winning 4he Superbowl with Bruce ****ing Arians?
 
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