If you were Kraft and this season doesn’t improve, do you move on from Bill after this season?

[chasa]

1. Yet the vast majority of fans here liked the signing; and while Meyers was here, no one thought he was a #1, and he wouldn't be the improvement this team needs anyway.
2. So who would you have taken? Go back and look at the draft. People here were advocating for Kaiir Elam and Devin Floyd. Some liked Devonte Wyatt. There were a lot of busts or guys who don't play from that first round. Let's say they picked a WR that people were advocating for. Treylon Burks for instance. He was available. 6 receptions in 4 games this season. 30 receptions last year. He's in N'Keal Harry territory. Christian Watson, Wandale Robinson, John Metchie. These are the first 4 WRs taken. NOTHING, BUST, BUST. Then Tyquan Thornton and Skyy Moore, again NOTHING AND NOTHING. There was one WR out of 7 to take in the 1st 2 rounds, and most teams passed on that guy twice: Pickens. All the other 6 WRs have been huge disappointments. The other guys we were looking at have done nothing.
3. I think you're misreading the Jonnu contract. It allowed us to get out from under.
4. Mac is not the guy. It is very clear. Patricia is totally irrelevant to all this now.
5. Hopkins is not the guy you remember. Last 4 years he's at half his old production and trending downwards. 32 year olds who catch 3 or 4 balls a game are not what we're looking for in a #1, especially with a horrendous QB.
6. What WRs? Tyreek Hill? You think he was wanted to come here? We didn't have the top 10 picks for a Stephon Diggs or a Jaylen Waddle. You can't trade what you don't have.
7. Shaq Mason was underwhelming at the Bucs and is no longer the guy he used to be. He signed for pennies on the dollar.

The team's talent is not super low. Just because we lack talent at QB and WR does not mean the rest of the team lacks talent.

1.) I disagree, I think most fans thought that it was AT best a lateral Move, which IMO is a step backwards because all of the chemistry built up over 2 years is gone. Nobody was expecting juju to be a #1, and at the moment he's not even top 5 on this team. he's currently got 80 yards on 21 targets. this is less then 6 other players on the team right now. Meyers is currently sitting at 200 yards. This was a Sanu level fail.

2.) I'm not an NFL GM but everyone.. ****ing everyone, laughed at the cole strange pick. I don't have time to go through all of the picks made after cole strange, but surely one of them was better.

3.)I don't think this is accurate. Converting Base into a signing bonus, spreads the bonus out over the remaining years. So it took money we already spent in 2022 and tacked it onto 2023, making his dead cap higher when we traded him. We're still paying him 12 million.

4.)Mac may not be the guy. He's looked pretty ****ing bad lately. But that doesn't change the fact that for his second season he had no coaching on the offensive side of the ball. he looked okay as a rookie, now he looks like trash. How much of that is just mac, and how much was a result of fatty p? We're never going to know. Again this is absolute ******** as a fan. Why would BB not just hire an offensive coordinator? This is the pride **** I as a fan am sick of dealing with ever since Malcom Butler was benched for the superbowl. That is a hill I will die on.

5.)Hopkins currently has 216 yards. I'd gladly take meyers and the corpse of dhop over Juju drop schuster

6.)you know who would look great in a patriots uniform? Brandin ****ing cooks. He went to the cowboys for a 5th and a 6th
Calvin Ridley a high skill player with some issues? a 5th and potentially a 2nd. Potential to be a wr1

7.) again ill take the corpse of Shaq over what we have right now

 

[1960Pats]

This is unknowable.

He built that home long before 2019.

But we also read that Brady wanted to stay and he was asking for a longer term contract after 2019. That tells me Brady would have stayed.

Then we read that the summer before the 2019 season Brady appeared on Miami owner's Ross's boat in an attempt to talk Brian Flores into tanking the season.

Both of these things conflict with one another.

So, the only thing we can say is that we don't know.

What we do know is this: The Patriots moved on from that entire team except for David Andrews and Deatrich Wise, that they were so far over the cap they could only afford to pay $1m to Cam Newton, that we paid the piper and started a rebuild during the Covid year.

I can't see how anyone is making an argument for Brady given the total team turnover. This is the 3rd time that Belichick rebuilt the Patriots (2000-2002), (2009-2011), (2020-2023). This time hasn't gone so well. And it's not because we don't have old man Tom Brady back there. It's because we have Scott Secules back there.

So basically, you don't have an answer to my question.

The cap argument is awfully weak when we see so many teams dealing well with it, even when paying top QBs.

What we DO know is that Brady wanted to stay here but Bill would only sign him at half price, so Brady left.

And we also KNOW that this team is 31-41 (4 of 5 losing seasons) with Bill as the HC but not Brady as the QB, and the team is still heading in the wrong direction now.

 

[1960Pats]

Can we not go down the rabbit hole? You know where this is going. Let it go.

Good idea.

 

[Steve102]

Good idea.

Right, because you get the last word. Stop bringing up the same old chit re: Brady. It's been beat to death.

 

[1960Pats]

Now, if a guy like mcvay suddenly becomes available ill admit that changes things. if you are moving on from bb youd better be damn sure of who you’re bringing in. Things can just as easily get worse as they can get better if we are just moving on in frustration without a solid plan.

We really don't know what we'll get until we get it. I bet there were fans here who thought Bill was a mistake.

 

[upstater1]

So basically, you don't have an answer to my question.

The cap argument is awfully weak when we see so many teams dealing well with it, even when paying top QBs.

What we DO know is that Brady wanted to stay here but Bill would only sign him at half price, so Brady left.

And we also KNOW that this team is 31-41 (4 of 5 losing seasons) with Bill as the HC but not Brady as the QB, and the team is still heading in the wrong direction now.

No one has that answer.

Tell me why Brady was on that boat in Miami while he was still a Patriot.

Do you have an explanation for that? You don't.

And no, the offer was NOT half price for Brady. The salary was not the problem. The contract length was the problem.

If the salary cap is nonsense, why did the Rams gut themselves after winning the SB? They went all out to win by bringing in a lot of big contracts, then they nosedived.

Have you looked at the Super Bowl roster and 2019 rosters and then compared them to 2021?

There's no one left outside of Wise and Andrews. They are all gone. What would Brady have done for us during a rebuild? Nothing.

 

[FCB02062]

Right now the Pats hold the #7 pick in 2024....does anyone trust Bill the GM not to **** it up? We all know he would use it on a lineman from Eastern Michigan

 

[PWRxWLF]

I would want an offensive minded coach probably from the Shanahan/McVey tree. I really like what Brian Griese is doing in San Fran the last two years with Purdy. He isn't the OC because Shanahan calls his own plays, but he is the defacto one and the QBs coach.

In this very hypothetical scenario (I do like where you went here) do you believe Griese is ready to step up and do all of the things a HC is supposed to do? Lead men, hire a staff etc?

 

[FCB02062]

I took a few years off from posting here but the quality of the posters (most, not all) here as absolutely fallen off a cliff. The lack understanding of roster construction, game management and general football on this forum has become astonishing.

says the guy who comes to an anonymous internet message board for "quality posters"....

 

[1960Pats]

Right, because you get the last word. Stop brining up the same old chit re: Brady. It's been beat to death.

Actually, I was responding to @archstanton543 who brought Brady up in this thread.

And my "Good idea" post was sincere.

 

[StanleyGrogan]

The 95 team ended up in the SB with a group of players who the HC whined about not being able to choose. I don't feel like this team is that close to winning.

Luckily things aren't dependant on what you feel.

 

[PWRxWLF]

ben johnson, mcvay,

I like everything about McVay, I really do. 2 problems IMO though. 1. McVay has had his success coaching ball clubs that were loaded with talent and a win now mode. That won’t happen in N.E. At least I don’t think it would. 2. How do you poach him from the Rams? The amount of draft/player capital they would want would be astronomical. Ben Johnson is interesting. Short term success guy though. Not much of a track record. A lot of risk there.

 

[Triumph]

And replace him with?

An NFL caliber QB with good awareness and one able to make ALL the throws.

A mature guy who can go out there and play chess. In control and not reactionary, bumping along for the ride with hopes of winning.

 

[PWRxWLF]

Lions OC Ben Johnson
Dolphins OC Frank Smith
Bucs OC Dave Canales

I get what you’re going for but which of these guys is actually ready to be a head coach in one of the most brutal media markets in all of sports?

 

[PWRxWLF]

It depends. If the Patriots move on from Bill as both GM and HC they'll need a new GM first to decide what team they want to become.

If it's an offensive team like the rest of the league there are some good OC's that will be looking for HC jobs that they can choose from. The Dolphins OC comes to mind. Or if they want to stay with a defensive minded coach they can go in house to Mayo or interview a DC looking for a promotion.

Good point. Where do they go for a GM then?

 

[Toofy]

True. I didn't even really think of it that way. Gibbs is the only offensive weapon that they drafted in the first round right now. The other guys were mid to late rounders or cheap free agents. Makes me even sadder lol.

Sam laporta is a star in making -- giving kittle vibes.

 

[Joey007]

My perspective right now is that we are actually in a pretty nice position next year:

We have loads of cap space, all of our draft picks intact, with a decent shot at that 1st rounder being a top 10 pick at this rate.

This team has much to rebuild, but not as bare of a cupboard as many teams with that amount of cap space would have. A few key FA's, but also not as many as you would typically expect with that amount of cap room.

The defense is more in a reload than rebuilding situation looking forward. Offense clearly needs plenty of work and needs a rebuild.

I would trust Bill to retool the defense if he remained here. But I have zero faith in him to fix this offense, and I don't want to see him waste our valuable resources on that side of the ball again.

It's clear Bill will never relinquish GM responsibilities while he is here, and I think that would have been the only way it could work with Bill moving forward. Adding that all up... he has to go after this season.

 

[h0c2000]

I just want to know which QB Bill could have had and won with in 2001 besides Tom.

 

[VectorPrime]

Brady wanted a contract extension in 2017 following 28-3. We know this. He didn’t get one.

Brady wanted a contract extension in 2018 following Super Bowl 52, which by the way occurred AFTER both Jimmy G and Jacoby were gone. We know this. He didn’t get one. Instead he was offered a year of INCENTIVES. Meanwhile Belichick tried to TRADE GRONK TO THE LIONS (and first year head coach and BUDDY Matty P) until Brady essentially threatened to demand a trade too.

Brady wanted a contract extension in 2019 following Super Bowl 53 when Brian Hoyer was the only other QB on the roster. We know this. He didn’t get one. At this point that summer Brady finally realized he was never getting a new contract and began looking elsewhere.

Belichick completely blew it and has now been exposed as a fraud.

 

[Real fan 02]

I would.

How about everyone else?

As great as BB has been, he contributed to the success obviously as much as TB12. But it's seems like the teams in worse position now then they were in 2021. Mac and the team around him has regressed. From a pure football standpoint ownership may have to go in a different direction if things don't improve drastically.. it not easy to move away from BB but eventually it's going to happen.

I've always been an optimistic fan, a believer in BB. What we all saw last season, and now spilling over into this season is culmination of just the way this team was constructed. Offensively they are so hard to watch. Josh Dobbs and the Cardinals have a more exciting offense right now. I don't think the loss at Dallas was the worst loss in the BB ERA I think the Buffalo game in a few weeks will be!