The optimistic case for Mac Jones

[Ian]

Bill O'Brien had mediocre offenses in Houston and never averaged more than 25 points per game during his stint. He had Watson from 2017 through 4 games in 2020 before getting fired.

Alabama fans were glad he left.

Mac doesn't have anywhere near the talent Watson had and the current skill position players in NE isn't good. Some of you guys are in real denial of expectations for this team going forward.

So are we just supposed to spend the offseason saying they suck and have no shot? I don't understand where we're supposed to go from here based on what you're saying. Sounds kind of depressing, and I'm not a big enough fan of the NBA or hockey to distract myself with another sport from September through next January...?

I also think you're overrating Watson while forgetting what O'Brien did with Brady, the two had a lot of success. I also know, based on what I heard from people who follow Alabama - and yes, hated him - was that the style of offense they run in college and the concepts are quite different from the NFL, which was where some of the disconnect was, which O'Brien finally figured out late in the year and they ended up with some big performances, including their bowl game. Either way, it's still miles ahead of what they were doing here last year.

Is this good enough to win a world title?
Is this good enough to win more than 1 playoff game.
When we are behind 20 points in the third is the other team nervous because number 10 is back there.
If the answer is no, then you keep trying til you find that guy.
Mac is a expendable employee.

The only problem with this logic is that you still have to play games in-between. Don't forget that Belichick drafted quarterbacks frequently during Brady's tenure, even when they should have been targeting other positions. You go with who you've got, and I'm sure his approach won't change. Doesn't change the fact you still need to root for whoever is under center every Sunday and hope for the best, even if he's not necessarily who you might want out there.

 

[borg]

So are we just supposed to spend the offseason saying they suck and have no shot? I don't understand where we're supposed to go from here based on what you're saying. Sounds kind of depressing, and I'm not a big enough fan of the NBA or hockey to distract myself with another sport from September through next January...?

I also think you're overrating Watson while forgetting what O'Brien did with Brady, the two had a lot of success. I also know, based on what I heard from people who follow Alabama - and yes, hated him - was that the style of offense they run in college and the concepts are quite different from the NFL, which was where some of the disconnect was, which O'Brien finally figured out late in the year and they ended up with some big performances, including their bowl game.
Either way, it's still miles ahead of what they were doing here last year.

Certainly better than last year, but let's not ignore BO'Bs #1 qualification in terms of what Bill values these days.....
Friend of Bill
This and only this put BO'B on top of the wish list
Hope it works out
Only issue now is that BO'B has no Heisman caliber weapons nor Alcorn State's on the schedule (Jetes maybe)

 

[Real fan 02]

When I see Mac have velocity on his throws and I don’t have to hold my breath every time he throws to the sideline anticipating a pick 6.
Then in will believe he can be the guy.

Here's what I can say... we got accustomed to near perfection for 2 decades.. Mac was drafted based on his mind, his accuracy and his ability to be able read defenses.. he has deceptive athleticism, the respect of his peers. He wasn't drafted based on Mahomes or Allen.. he's a pocket QB... MAHOMES played with hill for a majority of his career, Allen with Diggs and Burrow chase, Higgins.. of course those great qbs are going to put up stats...

Allow Mac this season, give him actual #1 targets.. and then judge him..

Continually downing him or saying he isn't this or that does us no good.. we NEED Mac to excel if we want to become a team that is a contender.. 2022 is so etched in the minds of his doubters that they believe that's who he is.. BOB I truly believe will take Mac to the next level..

Brady was criticized to for his arm early on, he got stronger as he became a better qb..

So I'm just stating my humble opinions..

 

[Real fan 02]

On the flip side of that O’Brien unleashed the 2 TE set that took the league by storm in 2011 and gave Brady his first 5K+ yard passing season and the Patriots to a top 3 offense. Obviously we don’t have the caliber of TEs now that we do then but I’m confident we’ll have an offense that plays to everyone’s strengths.

That is well put.. and having a top 10 offense is absolutely attainable.. somehow, someway... if BOB can integrate smith into becoming the threat he was signed to be then we'd have something there!

 

[Tunescribe]

Certainly better than last year, but let's not ignore BO'Bs #1 qualification in terms of what Bill values these days.....
Friend of Bill
This and only this put BO'B on top of the wish list
Hope it works out
Only issue now is that BO'B has no Heisman caliber weapons nor Alcorn State's on the schedule (Jetes maybe)

Wrong. BOB's No. 1 qualification for returning to New England is institutional knowledge. Second is experience with a proven track record, third is firsthand familiarity with Mac and Hoyer, fourth is local roots.

 

[Crazy World of Troy Brown]

On the flip side of that O’Brien unleashed the 2 TE set that took the league by storm in 2011 and gave Brady his first 5K+ yard passing season and the Patriots to a top 3 offense. Obviously we don’t have the caliber of TEs now that we do then but I’m confident we’ll have an offense that plays to everyone’s strengths.

Good Post, 2 TE Offense perfect for QB like Jones. This is not Alabama, this is the NFL. This is my biggest problem with BB.
Our best Offense has always been the Erhardt-Perkins Offense.
Who cares what Shanahan is doing.

 

[Triumph]

First of all, checking down is not necessarily a bad thing. In fact, here is the second sentence of the article YOU POSTED:

There’s nothing inherently wrong with checkdown passes — the best quarterbacks in the league employ them regularly, and they can be vital to an offense's success and efficiency — but quarterbacks shouldn’t be too keen on them.

Second of all, I never said that Jones didn't check down. I am just pointing out you Mac Haters can't get your story straight.

Third, I don't think anyone on this board takes you seriously. Your irrational over the top hate of Mac Jones has even the people who thinks Mac Jones sucks say to themselves that you are cray-cray. So don't talk to me about how people can take me seriously.

You told us that Corky dont check down.

Everything that Ive stated is FACT. He is a Game Manager who excels in the play it safe scheme. 65 screen passes is a safe play and inline with Corkys ability. Better to go 3 and out than let his try and go deep with the INT. Dink and Dunk Donuts.

No Defensive Coordinator worries how on earth will we stop Corky Mac.

 

[Triumph]

We don't know if Jones sucks. A lot of people who know far more about football than anyone on this board disagrees with you that Jones sucks. You see former QBs like Kurt Warner and Dan Orlovsky who are fans of Jones. Evan Lazar, who was initially not a fan of Jones, thinks he has the potential of being a good QB based in what he saw down the stretch last year.

Who knows what Jones is? We cannot judge him from last year because the offense was a disaster. Most of the biggest reasons were not because of anything Jones did.

Fans of Mac just cant handle the truth.

The cult has turned into Jets fans. They have blamed every Offensive Coordinator they've ever had while sticking up for their Bust of a QB. Darnold, Sanchez, Wilson you name them and those QBs were not the problem.

Why does that OC keep calling the INT play? Fire him.

 

[Rob0729]

You told us that Corky dont check down.

Everything that Ive stated is FACT. He is a Game Manager who excels in the play it safe scheme. 65 screen passes is a safe play and inline with Corkys ability. Better to go 3 and out than let his try and go deep with the INT. Dink and Dunk Donuts.

No Defensive Coordinator worries how on earth will we stop Corky Mac.

Show me the quote where I said Jones “dont“ check down. I never said that. I said you and fellow Mac Haters can’t get your stories straight on why you think Jones sucks. Some of you think he is Captain Checkdown and others think he locks in on his primary receiver and doesn‘t go through his progressions.

And again checking down is not necessarily a bad thing. In fact, it can be a strength of a QB.

Your blind hate for Jones has affected your reading comprehension.

 

[Triumph]

BTW, in 2018, Andrew Luck had basically the same percentage of check downs (8.2%) as Jones had in 2021 (8.3%). That year, Luck threw for 4,593 yards, 39 TDs, and had the second highest completion percentage of his career. And he was voted the Comeback Player of the Year that year.

Captain Checkdown: The quarterbacks who most and least rely on checkdown passes

While Blake Bortles has utilized the checkdown pass at a high rate, Buffalo Bills quarterback Josh Allen has avoided such plays.

www.pff.com

Bill Obrien is not going magically turn Corky Mac into Trevor Lawrence.

Whats Corky coming back from? The 2021 Pro Bowl where he got the call when they could not find anybody else.

 

[Rob0729]

Fans of Mac just cant handle the truth.

The cult has turned into Jets fans. They have blamed every Offensive Coordinator they've ever had while sticking up for their Bust of a QB. Darnold, Sanchez, Wilson you name them and those QBs were not the problem.

Why does that OC keep calling the INT play? Fire him.

Yes, it is unfair to blame Patricia for any of Jones’ problem. In the 2023 season, Patricia is going to show in his second year as the Patriots’ OC that he really is a good OC and Jones is just holding him back.

BTW, Jones threw 11 INTs which is less than Josh Allen, Mahomes, or Burrow. Yes, he played fewer games but he didn‘t have have an unusual amount of interceptions.

 

[Rob0729]

Bill Obrien is not going magically turn Corky Mac into Trevor Lawrence.

Whats Corky coming back from? The 2021 Pro Bowl where he got the call when they could not find anybody else.

Did I say Jones would become another Trevor Lawrence or win Comeback Player of the Year? Your blind hatred of Mac Jones has rotted your brain.

 

[Nikolai]

As long as the defense maintains itself, we don't even need a Top 10 offense to get to the playoffs. Top 15 would do it with bells. I feel like BOB can get the offense, and Mac, to Top 15 in year one. We will have to see.

 

[Real fan 02]

So are we just supposed to spend the offseason saying they suck and have no shot? I don't understand where we're supposed to go from here based on what you're saying. Sounds kind of depressing, and I'm not a big enough fan of the NBA or hockey to distract myself with another sport from September through next January...? ?



I also think you're overrating Watson while forgetting what O'Brien did with Brady, the two had a lot of success. I also know, based on what I heard from people who follow Alabama - and yes, hated him - was that the style of offense they run in college and the concepts are quite different from the NFL, which was where some of the disconnect was, which O'Brien finally figured out late in the year and they ended up with some big performances, including their bowl game. Either way, it's still miles ahead of what they were doing here last year.





The only problem with this logic is that you still have to play games in-between. Don't forget that Belichick drafted quarterbacks frequently during Brady's tenure, even when they should have been targeting other positions. You go with who you've got, and I'm sure his approach won't change. Doesn't change the fact you still need to root for whoever is under center every Sunday and hope for the best, even if he's not necessarily who you might want out thereI'd love.

As long as the defense maintains itself, we don't even need a Top 10 offense to get to the playoffs. Top 15 would do it with bells. I feel like BOB can get the offense, and Mac, to Top 15 in year one. We will have to see.

Agreed, But under McDaniels Mac10s rookie season we were a top 10 offense, that's absolutely reachable under BOB, I'll keep saying this until it happens on defense if we can get a lock corner that makes us elite! The way the rules are more geared towards scoring... we should absolutely be a top 10 offense.. need to fix the red zone issues 1st and foremost..

 

[sb1]

I still wonder what the Patriots could have gotten for Zappe if they were able to trade him after the Cleveland game. Probably a lot from a QB needy team. Definitely more than what they’d get now…

 

[sb1]

Did I say Jones would become another Trevor Lawrence or win Comeback Player of the Year? Your blind hatred of Mac Jones has rotted your brain.

@MAC10 laughed at me when I said a year ago I would still trade Mac for Lawrence straight up.

 

[Rob0729]

@MAC10 laughed at me when I said a year ago I would still trade Mac for Lawrence straight up.

I always felt that Lawrence's problems in 2021 were so much coaching. I always felt he was the clear best QB in the 2021 draft even after the season. My only doubts about Lawrence turning into a good QB were more about the Jags being a clown show organization and not Lawrence. Ironically, the Pats were the clown show and the Jags were somewhat competent in 2022.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

@MAC10 laughed at me when I said a year ago I would still trade Mac for Lawrence straight up.

I laugh at a lot of things you say...most instances I'm right.

 

[sb1]

I laugh at a lot of things you say...most instances I'm right.

I still trigger you that much huh? Good to know.

 

[TheRainMaker]

So are we just supposed to spend the offseason saying they suck and have no shot? I don't understand where we're supposed to go from here based on what you're saying. Sounds kind of depressing, and I'm not a big enough fan of the NBA or hockey to distract myself with another sport from September through next January...?

I'm just saying to curb expectations. He had some talent in Houston, but they were still mediocre on offense.

I also think you're overrating Watson while forgetting what O'Brien did with Brady, the two had a lot of success.

I was just comparing talent level and ceiling. I was a fan of Watson coming out of college, but he's not up to the task in big games. O'Brien in NE got badly outcoached in the playoffs 3 years in a row. They had absolutely no business getting shut down by the Jets with Rex Ryan saying that 2010 team was the easiest team he's game planned against in his career. He knew the Pats couldn't throw to the outside, so he clogged the middle of the field. O'Brien had no answer. They had the 2011 Giants on the ropes up 17-9, but let the foot off the gas after being up 17-9. That was extremely disappointing. He had a 24-0 lead against the Chiefs and decided to call it a day getting outscored 51-7.