We're on to the OFF-Season

[1960Pats]

it all went wrong went they let Brady walk

I'm as big a Brady fan as there is but it went wrong when Bill decided to bring in Patricia and Judge to run the offense. Prior to this season they seemed to be heading in the right direction.

 

[patfanken]

I’m confused Ken. Agholor and Wynn aren’t on the team anymore, so you can’t save money. Agreed on Mills.

sometimes the fact really DO change a really good narrative.

Well too bad. At any rate they both deserve to be cut and I'm glad they are off the team. AND IIRC isn't that about $20-22MM off the cap?

 

[DaBruinz]

I agree with this. I would rather see them go to a new offensive system, a RPO based system.

They aren't going to "change" the offensive system. They might modify it, but it's still going to be BB's system. Adding more RPO only works if they upgrade the O-line.

 

[Huckleberry1]

They aren't going to "change" the offensive system. They might modify it, but it's still going to be BB's system. Adding more RPO only works if they upgrade the O-line.

I don’t disagree, but my hope is that Belichick transitions to a a RPO system before he retires. I believe the Erhardt/ Perkins offense is toast.

 

[Sciz]

I don’t disagree, but my hope is that Belichick transitions to a a RPO system before he retires. I believe the Erhardt/ Perkins offense is toast.

O’Brien’s Texans ran the third most RPOs in 2019 (his last full year there and the first year that PFR has RPO data for).

 

[patfanken]

I’m confused Ken. Agholor and Wynn aren’t on the team anymore, so you can’t save money. Agreed on Mills.

OK. I got it already. Like I said in another thread. Glad those 2 are gone. Happy they are off the cap.

 

[patfanken]

I don’t disagree, but my hope is that Belichick transitions to a a RPO system before he retires. I believe the Erhardt/ Perkins offense is toast.

Exactly why are you so enamored by the so called "RPO" craze.

First of all in 2020 Bill was able to use so called RPO concepts for Cam. It's not like the current system can't adjust to this look.

Second, what is it about the RPO that is better than what we have. The problems last year were more out structure and execution or the lack thereof, than the general system. We actually ran the ball pretty well. What we NEED is a more efficient and consistent passing attack that is well coordinated and executed. Hopefully BOB and any other new coaches on the offense will improve that problem.

BTW - I use BOB in the present sense, but I would be TOTALLY shocked if he isn't named by Tuesday after this weekends' games..

 

[TommyD4207]

I don’t disagree, but my hope is that Belichick transitions to a a RPO system before he retires. I believe the Erhardt/ Perkins offense is toast.

The E-P has had RPOs in it for over a decade.

 

[Ring 6]

I don’t disagree, but my hope is that Belichick transitions to a a RPO system before he retires. I believe the Erhardt/ Perkins offense is toast.

What do you mean by “an RPO system”?

 

[Ring 6]

The E-P has had RPOs in it for over a decade.

RPO is a play not a system.
RPO is simply a run play that include a wr running a route (almost always a slant) that the qb can throw instead of handing off.
It can only include quick hits because the OL is run blocking.

People misunderstand running QB systems where after the RPO choice the QB then chooses to hand off or keep, as an “RPO offense”.

 

[Huckleberry1]

O’Brien’s Texans ran the third most RPOs in 2019 (his last full year there and the first year that PFR has RPO data for).

That’s interesting, I thought O’Brien was an Erhardt/Perkins system coordinator, but it makes sense given that he had Watson. It won’t really be much of an option until they have a QB who can run it, but I think it’s inevitable.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Exactly why are you so enamored by the so called "RPO" craze.

First of all in 2020 Bill was able to use so called RPO concepts for Cam. It's not like the current system can't adjust to this look.

Second, what is it about the RPO that is better than what we have. The problems last year were more out structure and execution or the lack thereof, than the general system. We actually ran the ball pretty well. What we NEED is a more efficient and consistent passing attack that is well coordinated and executed. Hopefully BOB and any other new coaches on the offense will improve that problem.

BTW - I use BOB in the present sense, but I would be TOTALLY shocked if he isn't named by Tuesday after this weekends' games..

Because the game has become so fast and athletic that pocket passing and timing offenses are harder and harder to run, and athletic QB’s who can extend plays become more and more important.

As far as O’Brien goes I can’t stand him, but anything is better than what we had to watch this season.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Exactly why are you so enamored by the so called "RPO" craze.

First of all in 2020 Bill was able to use so called RPO concepts for Cam. It's not like the current system can't adjust to this look.

Second, what is it about the RPO that is better than what we have. The problems last year were more out structure and execution or the lack thereof, than the general system. We actually ran the ball pretty well. What we NEED is a more efficient and consistent passing attack that is well coordinated and executed. Hopefully BOB and any other new coaches on the offense will improve that problem.

BTW - I use BOB in the present sense, but I would be TOTALLY shocked if he isn't named by Tuesday after this weekends' games..

Ken, one of the reason’s I didn’t have much of a problem with the end of the Belichick/Brady era is because I always s believed that Belichick is the opposite of Parcells, and would want to build a really good post Brady team to leave to his successor. And I believed part of that would be offensive changes to a more athletic QB, and offense to exploit that. Belichick has always looked to college to be ahead of changes to the pro game, and that’s clearly where colleges have been at for a while. Could they succeed with a pocket passing offense, yes, are they going to be able to keep up with all the great young QB’s and explosive offenses with that system, I doubt it. Bows a great time to change things, I hope they do.

 

[patfanken]

Ken, one of the reason’s I didn’t have much of a problem with the end of the Belichick/Brady era is because I always s believed that Belichick is the opposite of Parcells, and would want to build a really good post Brady team to leave to his successor. And I believed part of that would be offensive changes to a more athletic QB, and offense to exploit that. Belichick has always looked to college to be ahead of changes to the pro game, and that’s clearly where colleges have been at for a while. Could they succeed with a pocket passing offense, yes, are they going to be able to keep up with all the great young QB’s and explosive offenses with that system, I doubt it. Bows a great time to change things, I hope they do.

I respect your opinion and the reasons you give to defend it, (and I think you are right about Bill keeping a close eye on the college game and continues to learn from it), BUT I couldn't disagree more.

In an ideal world, every quality QB is better when he can throw in rhythm from the pocket. You think that misdirection of the RPO is the only way run games can survive, yet that ISN'T what we saw in tonight's games. It was the run game that DOMINATED both games. But regardless of tonight, the Pats power run game is EXACTLY how you do combat the speed of defenses and 240lb OLB. A well coordinated zone blocking scheme will do it too, but it's hard to do without the right coaching. Patricia and Yates all grew up in the Pats power system, and that's ultimately what they fell back on to a good degree of success.

What I HOPE will happen with the new hires to the offense (and I HOPE it is more than just an OC) is that we will take whatever talent emerges from next years team and go back to what we do best 1. run the ball 2. move the chains 3. throw well to our TE's and RB's.
THAT was the formula that worked for SO many years and WILL (I believe) continue to be successful with better planning, discipline, and execution. James White was averaging over 500yds per year for 6 years and for 2 years over 600yds I was thinking all year what happened to our 3rd down back? Didn't you?

As to the RPO, there are things you can incorporate into our offense. Mac has the innate athletic ability (4.8/7.0 speed and quickness), but has yet to develop the instincts to use them. He may never develop them, but he may. 2 years is a very short window for a QB. D Jones has been considered a bust for most of his first 3 years, now he's a rising star (ntil tonight perhaps)

 

[DaBruinz]

I don’t disagree, but my hope is that Belichick transitions to a a RPO system before he retires. I believe the Erhardt/ Perkins offense is toast.

Erthardt/Perkins is about terminology.

 

[turkeyneck]

Erthardt/Perkins is about terminology.

This. EP is not a particular collection of plays forming a 'system'. It is a language developed in which to efficiently describe any play from whatever 'system'.

 

[Ross12]

I can kind of see the mindset with trading or cutting Hunter Henry. I like him, but his production doesn't match his cost. He's a poor blocker and was very underutilized last year. Even if our next OC wants to raise the TE usage, he's still a poor blocker. You can cut him and save a whopping $10.5M in cap space, or trade him and save that same amount if someone wants one year of Henry for $10.5M for a low pick.

They'd still have Jonnu, who is a better blocker and honestly didn't produce much less than Henry last year and might be able to get more going with a new OC. I don't think the above will happen but I could see it. Save a sizeable chunk of money, make Jonnu your TE1, de-emphasize the TE in the offense, draft a TE.

I could see one of Parker or Bourne going too if they acquire a "#1 WR". I like Parker's upside but I'd probably keep Bourne, Parker has a tough time staying on the field and Bourne was so dynamic with a halfway decent OC in 2021 that it makes me hopeful a better OC in 2023 can have him return to form again. Plus you save more money moving on from Parker than from Bourne, and as much as Bourne has been weirdly outspoken at times, I feel like he is an important part of the locker room.

Pats would have about $51M in cap space if they moved on from Bailey (pending the grievance), Henry and Parker. Plenty to acquire a WR1 and make a few other important roster moves. Could also find a little more money in a Judon extension. Need to think about guys like Onwenu, Dugger, Uche, and Bentley who are in the last year of their deals in 2023 also.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I can kind of see the mindset with trading or cutting Hunter Henry. I like him, but his production doesn't match his cost. He's a poor blocker and was very underutilized last year. Even if our next OC wants to raise the TE usage, he's still a poor blocker. You can cut him and save a whopping $10.5M in cap space, or trade him and save that same amount if someone wants one year of Henry for $10.5M for a low pick.

They'd still have Jonnu, who is a better blocker and honestly didn't produce much less than Henry last year and might be able to get more going with a new OC. I don't think the above will happen but I could see it. Save a sizeable chunk of money, make Jonnu your TE1, de-emphasize the TE in the offense, draft a TE.

I could see one of Parker or Bourne going too if they acquire a "#1 WR". I like Parker's upside but I'd probably keep Bourne, Parker has a tough time staying on the field and Bourne was so dynamic with a halfway decent OC in 2021 that it makes me hopeful a better OC in 2023 can have him return to form again. Plus you save more money moving on from Parker than from Bourne, and as much as Bourne has been weirdly outspoken at times, I feel like he is an important part of the locker room.

Pats would have about $51M in cap space if they moved on from Bailey (pending the grievance), Henry and Parker. Plenty to acquire a WR1 and make a few other important roster moves. Could also find a little more money in a Judon extension.

Was the suspension lifted? But there is still a grievance?

 

[Ross12]

Was the suspension lifted? But there is still a grievance?

It was only a suspension through the end of 2022 but the grievance is filed because the suspension voids his 2023 guaranteed money.

 

[Ring 6]

That’s interesting, I thought O’Brien was an Erhardt/Perkins system coordinator, but it makes sense given that he had Watson. It won’t really be much of an option until they have a QB who can run it, but I think it’s inevitable.

What do you think RPO is?