We're on to the OFF-Season

[Steve102]

Based on Bill's last press conference, Lazar surmised that he may think Mac was more of the problem than the coaching since he wouldn't commit to Mac as the starter. Lazar was hypothesising.

Lazar has said that based on Belichick's end of the year press conference, he believes that Belichick may have believed that Jones was the issue with the offense and not the coaching. It was speculation on Lazar's part and portrayed as such. I think people are just overstating what he said.

Thanks fellas. I think Lazar has done a good job, but he still draws a check from the team, so his opinion posts I tend to skim or just pass altogether.

 

[venecol]

You taking over moderator duties?

I talk about a lot more than just Brady. But whatever, you do you, and I'll do me. Neither of us are in the position of telling another member what they can or cannot post or where to post it.

I'm not telling you what to post because Ian has asked you not to continue down this road and you still don't listen. Whatever.

The thing I've noticed is even the slighest mention of Brady in a negative light triggers you into action of having to defend his honor or something. I'm a big supporter of his, but don't feel it's necessary to defend him after every single post. But you're correct, you do you.

 

[PowerRunRevival]

I saw some tweets yesterday about David Shaw being interested in returning to the NFL. What would people think of him as an offensive coordinator? I really liked Stanford's offense when he was there coach there. I honestly would prefer the Pats go back to a run and play action under center scheme than the spread shotgun scheme they tried to run this year (although Kingsbury's spread offense could also be fun).

 

[SVN]

Pretty sure Kraft is Curran’s source.

Somebody did suggest it was jonathan.

 

[SVN]

As far as OC, I would simply want an OC who best could run a Josh offense.

Bill wouldn't allow an OC with power to completely change the offense, and the power to follow through.

But BB wanted to go away from the Josh offense this season ?

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Any interest in duron harmon if dmc moves on? The little i saw of him last year was decent. Shouldnt cost much

 

[PatsFan2]

Any interest in duron harmon if dmc moves on? The little i saw of him last year was decent. Shouldnt cost much

 

[Ross12]

Somebody did suggest it was jonathan.

Yeah, it’s A Kraft, if not Robert himself.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Pellegrino, Belichick and Belichick are all ex-lacroisse players. Fact.

You said all the secondary coaches. Now you say some of the secondary coaches. You are twisting and back peddling so fast you are going to fall over.

No actually, in the real world teams ask other teams permission to interview coaches that are still under contract, if they are interested. We see this every season. Teams will trade for coaches. No team has asked to interview Lil Stephen. Ever. That's a fact. We would know if they did.

None of this is true. You are naïve and lost.

In what world do you live in where you actually believe Bill won't protect his son?
You said it yourself, the D was good w/ Flores then w/ Mayo. Those are both facts. We don't know what'll happen w/ the D if Mayo leaves. It's not about the play calling, it's about the coordinating aspect, which Mayo said is what he did. Ken stated that was a huge part of a DC job (more so than play calling).

It is not about the play calling? So funny. It is amazing how all of your facts miraculously support all of your arguments and view of this world. How amazingly convenient. Pissing in the wind.

Sure, I'm putting 2 & 2 together. Thanks for the cleverly compliment.

You said it was all facts. Now you say it is putting 2+2 together. You are half honest anyway. That is a start.

 

[venecol]

You said all the secondary coaches. Now you say some of the secondary coaches. You are twisting and back peddling so fast you are going to fall over.

Those are the secondary coaches:
Brian Belichick - S
Mike Pellegrino - CB

None of this is true. You are naïve and lost.

Teams don't ask other teams to interview their coaches? McDaniels asked Bill to interview Caley and he blocked it. Broncos asked Saints to interview Payton, etc. But thanks for the non-response.

It is not about the play calling? So funny. It is amazing how all of your facts miraculously support all of your arguments and view of this world. How amazingly convenient. Pissing in the wind.

Mayo said he was doing the coordinating and Stephen the play calling. But thanks for your non-response.

You said it was all facts. Now you say it is putting 2+2 together. You are half honest anyway. That is a start.

Using facts to draw conclusions isn't a unique thing in human history.

 

[signbabybrady]

Belichick was openly talking about Brady's "age and contract situation" as early as 2014. He of anyone had the closest exposure to Brady and he grossly underestimated Brady's capacity to continue playing at a very high level for many more seasons. 2014 with those comments is when the souring of the relationship started because Brady was being openly doubted by his head coach. The result, 7 years later Brady was still winning a Super Bowl, but for another franchise.

I stand corrected. Yes Bill did have general concerns about assuming anyone no matter how great would stand up into their 40s. Brees and Brady did, still not sure how many others will even with the softer rules for QBs.

But that wasn't what I was really debating anyway. The problem is that Brady probably rightfully so due to his years of service wanted Bill to make a call on Brady being able to play until 45 well before Brady was a free agent.

Taking emotions out of it BB in theory should have had his right not to make that decision until after 2019 and he should have had the use of the franchise tag to protect against difficult contract negotiations.

Brady obviously felt he deserved better and Bill agreed to not do the franchise tag stuff as a compromise. Obviously we all wish Bill just locked him up until 45 before 2019. What Bill wanted was to just wait until after 2019 and give him a 2 year deal. So Brady was neither getting locked up a year early nor getting to 45 without another contract. I think it was reasonable by both and Brady ultimately proved himself. We will see how many other QBs make it that far and that will in part make BB look better or worse. Either way he still should have known Brady was a freak.

Lastly I think in 2017 BB was totally right. Again in 2018 I think he was right not to cave so early. By 2019 BB should have given him whatever he wanted to avoid the walk year. Problem is I think by then Brady had already built up the grudge. Bill used the no tag to to appease Brady but that only went so far and I think Bill still figured they come to an agreement after 2019. He really should have recognized and worked harder to resolve it before 2019. As he never really got another chance. And it probably in part had to do with how the season ended.

 

[crawhammer]

Brady obviously felt he deserved better and Bill agreed to not do the franchise tag stuff as a compromise. Obviously we all wish Bill just locked him up until 45 before 2019. What Bill wanted was to just wait until after 2019 and give him a 2 year deal. So Brady was neither getting locked up a year early nor getting to 45 without another contract. I think it was reasonable by both and Brady ultimately proved himself. We will see how many other QBs make it that far and that will in part make BB look better or worse. Either way he still should have known Brady was a freak.

I don't think "everyone" wanted Bill to lockup Brady to age 45 but yes at the time I think the majority preference was for Brady to remain our QB. I also believe it was Kraft who signed off on the no franchise tag clause, which I'm on record as saying was really stupid. From a business standpoint, if they weren't going to retain Brady, then they should got something for him in return. Total waste of an asset.

 

[signbabybrady]

I don't think "everyone" wanted Bill to lockup Brady to age 45 but yes at the time I think the majority preference was for Brady to remain our QB. I also believe it was Kraft who signed off on the no franchise tag clause, which I'm on record as saying was really stupid. From a business standpoint, if they weren't going to retain Brady, then they should got something for him in return. Total waste of an asset.

And their lies the hindsight. I just think when people look back they forget that it was a multi year build up and usually just assign the facts like it was all part of some February 2020 decision to let Brady go when that was never an option and the game was lost 2017-2019 via a series of things as part of the negotiations.

 

[Deus Irae]

I stand corrected. Yes Bill did have general concerns about assuming anyone no matter how great would stand up into their 40s. Brees and Brady did, still not sure how many others will even with the softer rules for QBs.

But that wasn't what I was really debating anyway. The problem is that Brady probably rightfully so due to his years of service wanted Bill to make a call on Brady being able to play until 45 well before Brady was a free agent.

Taking emotions out of it BB in theory should have had his right not to make that decision until after 2019 and he should have had the use of the franchise tag to protect against difficult contract negotiations.

Brady obviously felt he deserved better and Bill agreed to not do the franchise tag stuff as a compromise. Obviously we all wish Bill just locked him up until 45 before 2019. What Bill wanted was to just wait until after 2019 and give him a 2 year deal. So Brady was neither getting locked up a year early nor getting to 45 without another contract. I think it was reasonable by both and Brady ultimately proved himself. We will see how many other QBs make it that far and that will in part make BB look better or worse. Either way he still should have known Brady was a freak.

Lastly I think in 2017 BB was totally right. Again in 2018 I think he was right not to cave so early. By 2019 BB should have given him whatever he wanted to avoid the walk year. Problem is I think by then Brady had already built up the grudge. Bill used the no tag to to appease Brady but that only went so far and I think Bill still figured they come to an agreement after 2019. He really should have recognized and worked harder to resolve it before 2019. As he never really got another chance. And it probably in part had to do with how the season ended.

Belichick was wrong every time.


Every.
Single.
Time.

 

[Chevy]

Belichick was wrong every time.


Every.
Single.
Time.

I'd say that any other GM/HC would have parted ways by 2013 with the mentality get what you can before it's too late. Two #1 picks would have been the price, and there would have been a lot of suitors. BB held on as long as he could, the price being cap issues and 12's ability to walk.

Oh - and 3 more rings.

 

[DaBruinz]

We have the 4th-most cap space (more than $50m more than Miami and Buffalo), very little dead money and haven't stolen from out years like many teams have with voidable contracts. Plus an unusually good haul to come in this draft - number 14 is their highest pick in a decade, and they are projected to have 11 picks altogether (including compensatory picks in the 4th, 5th and 7th rounds). So with 6 picks in the first four rounds they plenty of ammunition to move up if needed.
Belichick noted we've had the among the lowest total payouts over the last three years.
So now the Pats are actually finally in a good position roster-wise - we sold out some in the last years of Brady when we traded for some players at the expense of draft picks which hurts in terms of salary. And the bad picks (Harry etc,) are now mostly off the team and behind us.

NFL Salary Cap Space | Over The Cap

NFL salary cap space estimates for all 32 teams

overthecap.com

The Patriots don't have more than $50M. You're looking at the wrong column. The $50M is the projected amount PRIOR to the LTBE and Player Performance bonuses are added. Look at the reduced Column where it says $45M or so. Miguel takes into consideration BOTH the LTBE and Player Performance Bonuses. He's also accounted for the Future's Contracts already. Which is why he has us down close to $30M.

 

[DaBruinz]

So, if Curran is right, Lazar was wrong. And I think most of us, if not all, hope that Curran was right.


A lot of needed moves are pretty easy to see:

Patricia and Judge need to be shuffled to other spots. Judge to special teams and Patricia to a special assistant makes sense.
Bring back the old system and an O.C. who's run it (That means no Kingsbury!) and can get Jones back to a good place mentally
Get a left tackle (Brown can be shifted back to RT), a CB1, and a WR1
Get speed at ILB
Get a speedy FS if McCourty retires



There's plenty more, but those are nose-on-face level obvious.

I love when DI regurgitates what everyone else has been saying for several days but pretends like it's something enlightening for everyone.

 

[DaBruinz]

I don’t know where they get their data. Miguel has them at 35M

They get their data from the SAME PLACE. What you fail to understand (despite Miguel having explained it) is that some places haven't taken into consideration the LTBE and Player Performance bonuses. If you look at OTC, they have 2 columns. Cap Space and Effective Cap space. Cap space is the overall number. The Effective is after LTBE have been accounted for. Miguel's number accounts for LTBE AND the PPB.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'd say that any other GM/HC would have parted ways by 2013 with the mentality get what you can before it's too late. Two #1 picks would have been the price, and there would have been a lot of suitors. BB held on as long as he could, the price being cap issues and 12's ability to walk.

Oh - and 3 more rings.

I'd say that 0 GM/HCs would have parted ways by 2013. Brady was 2nd in MVP voting and 4th in Offensive player of the year voting in 2013.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I think we lost our comp pick for Jackson when he went out after 5 games. I'm pretty sure the comp pick formula includes performance. It's not simply contract $$. We lost a comp pick for this before... though I can't remember who it was right now.

The short version is that, as of the current CBA, there are three factors:

• The primary factor is (and has always been) the average annual value of the contract. Higher is better. The maximum here is approximately 2,000 points.
• 
  
• The second factor is not "performance" but snap count: players on offense and defense get a bonus if they play >25% of snaps. [Kickers and punters get bonuses based on their statistics.] This can earn up to 100 points.
• 
  
• The final factor is making All-Pro, either AP or PFWA. This can be worth up to 20 points.

By contract alone, Jackson should've been a third (top 5% of all players), but he missed so much playing time that that particular criterion will probably push him down to a 4th (below 5%, but top 10%).