We're on to the OFF-Season

[Hammer of Thor]

We'd actually get 2 3rd round comp picks if we lose Mayo to another team as a HC or DC. One this year & another the year after.

A reporter noted yesterday that Mayo‘s contract is up. Since he’s no longer under contract with the Patriots, we’d get nothing for him if he leaves.

 

[PWRxWLF]

A reporter noted yesterday that Mayo‘s contract is up. Since he’s no longer under contract with the Patriots, we’d get nothing for him if he leaves.

Making a habit of letting home grown talent leave for nothing.

 

[RobertWeathers]

He did show something in his very limited action when his hamstring wasn't acting up. You do remember he was battling that all year right? You don't trade up for a guy that high in the 2nd round to put him on special teams with a bad hammy when you're thin at WR. It wrecked his career as he said he couldn't cut after that. Sorry bro, there's no argument for that.

I see. So the pick was great but BB the coach misused the player?

Fact is his hammy was fine when they played him. If it wasn't they wouldn't have. Stop making excuses for bust pick who couldn't learn the offense and blame it all on Belichick the coach.

Starters play STs all the time. Been happening for 20+ years. It was freak injury.

He did again with Sanu in 2019 putting him out on special teams to return a punt when he's fielded once in his career after trading a 2nd round pick with the WR's on life support. Threw him away like trash the following season.

So? The fact is he did it and practiced it w/ ATL before coming here.

Football is a contact sport. Players are asked to play special teams all the time - even starters here and elsewhere.

Creating an argument in which BB needs to coddle and protect role players from injury is absurd.

 

[bresna]

A reporter noted yesterday that Mayo‘s contract is up. Since he’s no longer under contract with the Patriots, we’d get nothing for him if he leaves.

When does the season end for a coach that wasn't fired? I would think that for coaches, it's after the Super Bowl. The season for the players runs to March.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

When does the season end for a coach that wasn't fired? I would think that for coaches, it's after the Super Bowl. The season for the players runs to March.

No idea. Just stating what I read.

Found it here:
Jerod Mayo Interviewing For Browns DC Job

Hopefully Curran has it wrong.
Edit: hopefully I’m reading more into it, and that he would be eligible for draft picks. Curran doesn’t actually say that, he just says the Pats couldn’t block him from interviewing if they want.

 

[DaBruinz]

No idea. Just stating what I read.

Found it here:
Jerod Mayo Interviewing For Browns DC Job

Hopefully Curran has it wrong.
Edit: hopefully I’m reading more into it, and that he would be eligible for draft picks. Curran doesn’t actually say that, he just says the Pats couldn’t block him from interviewing if they want.

Teams cannot block coaches from interviewing for jobs that are Promotions. Such as to OC, DC, HC. Teams can block interviews that are just lateral in nature. As they did with Caley last year.

 

[Deus Irae]

Using your logic for Gibbs doing it with 3 different QBs don't you have to give Horry credit for doing it with 3 different teams?

No. Horry wasn't a lead dog. That was a big part of the point with how bad the "logic" of the argument was.

Just curious but do you actually think Gibbs is better than BB?

No, though I think Gibbs maximized the rules and play of game in his era as well as just about any have ever done it. Unfortunately for him, we saw the limitations of that when he returned to the league without that same familiarity with, and affinity for, the changed rules and play.

But I wouldn't use that as a definitive if I was actually breaking things down for a G.O.A.T. discussion, because the time off was a long one and it's understandable that Gibbs would have been out of touch. I'd just acknowledge that as a point I'd have to try minimizing in my evaluations.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I see. So the pick was great but BB the coach misused the player?

I never said that.

Fact is his hammy was fine when they played him. If it wasn't they wouldn't have. Stop making excuses for bust pick who couldn't learn the offense and blame it all on Belichick the coach.

Why are you so quick to call him a bust as it was only his rookie year? What happened to "let's wait 3 years to call him a bust"?

Starters play STs all the time. Been happening for 20+ years. It was freak injury.

Football is a contact sport. Players are asked to play special teams all the time - even starters here and elsewhere.

Creating an argument in which BB needs to coddle and protect role players from injury is absurd.

Yeah my favorite is when Bill put Rob Gronkowsi on the field goal unit up 35 points in the 4th quarter of the 2012 season against the Colts. He broke his forearm and missed the playoffs. He would've been useful against Baltimore.

 

[bresna]

No idea. Just stating what I read.

Found it here:
Jerod Mayo Interviewing For Browns DC Job

Hopefully Curran has it wrong.
Edit: hopefully I’m reading more into it, and that he would be eligible for draft picks. Curran doesn’t actually say that, he just says the Pats couldn’t block him from interviewing if they want.

I don't think the Patriots get any picks if Mayo leaves for a DC position unless they recently changed the rule. The article I linked to above says that it's only for HC & GM hires (and I edited my initial post to reflect this).

 

[Deus Irae]

Everyone has always included the Super Bowls BB has won in NY when discussing his legacy

Not when you're talking about him as a head coach.

I don't know why (actually I do) now all of a sudden it's a reach to include those.

Because those are Parcells' rings. You know this, so stop already

But yeah you are at the top of the coaching hierarchy with a resume like that no matter who you had on your team.

That's nonsense.

This isn't the NBA where Erik Spoelstra can get carried to a win by LeBron D-Wade and Bosch. Football is the ultimate team sport and I'd argue the most reliant on coaching.

No, this is the NFL, where having Tom Brady has been a cheat code for 2 different head coaches.

He's the best to ever do it, even with a few .500 seasons sprinkled into the mix, just as Brady is the GOAT playoff QB even with the clunkers he's had throughout the years

Lombardi, Brown, Walsh, Gibbs, Halas, Landry, Noll, Shula, Gibbs....

BB's certainly at the top, along with them.

 

[DaBruinz]

I don't think the Patriots get any picks if Mayo leaves for a DC position unless they recently changed the rule. The article I linked to above says that it's only for HC & GM hires (and I edited my initial post to reflect this).

Yeah.. just saw that as well.

 

[Deus Irae]

To truly judge a HC you need to see them with a capable QB (or at least a QB who's not completely overmatched). A bad HC can't win with anyone at QB (see Bowles with Brady, Garrett with Prescott, just about every HC Rivers had, etc).

Walrus wins when he has one (prime McNabb, A. Smith, Mahomes) and loses when he doesn't. Tomlin did plenty of winning with Ben (though many think not as much as they should have) and flopped horrendously whenever he got hurt (which was often). Sean Payton, same thing as Tomlin, probably worse. He won some with Brees (though a LOT less than he should have), and was hopeless whenever Brees got hurt.

Can't get a full measure a boxer's ability when he's forced to fight one handed. BB has more than proven his mettle when he fights with 2 hands. The problem is that this past year (and perhaps for a bit longer), he's put himself in a position to fight one handed, and has no one else to blame.

Fixing the Patricia and Achord fiascos will go a long way to letting Bill fight with two hands again.

Nobody in the Super Bowl era has ever had a Brady. That's the point. Even Walsh, with Montana, never had a Brady. So, to use your comp, Bill hasn't been a two-handed fighter forced to fight with one hand (and BB wasn't forced to do any such thing here in New England. He chose to do it), he's been a fighter who had both hands and an extra weapon that nobody else possessed, then willingly gave up the weapon.

 

[Steve102]

I never said that.

Why are you so quick to call him a bust as it was only his rookie year? What happened to "let's wait 3 years to call him a bust"?


Yeah my favorite is when Bill put Rob Gronkowsi on the field goal unit up 35 points in the 4th quarter of the 2012 season against the Colts. He broke his forearm and missed the playoffs. He would've been useful against Baltimore.

So just the bottom 11 guys on the roster play specials?

Football players play. C'mon man.

 

[Deus Irae]

Problem is you can't keep Meyers AND bring in a WR1 like Cooks. Need to choose. As much as I like Meyers, we need a real #1. Parker isn't one. I kike your list:

Cooks
Parker
Bourne
Thornton

That gives you the outside guys you need, speed, 50/50 guy, slot. The problem we had was Bourne, Meyer, and Agholor were all the same types.

You don't want either Cooks or Parker as a WR1. You hope that Thornton comes back in year 2 as the speed guy that Cooks would be, you see how much Meyers is asking for, and you look around to see if any WR1 type player is likely to be cut/traded.

 

[signbabybrady]

No. Horry wasn't a lead dog. That was a big part of the point with how bad the "logic" of the argument was.




No, though I think Gibbs maximized the rules and play of game in his era as well as just about any have ever done it. Unfortunately for him, we saw the limitations of that when he returned to the league without that same familiarity with, and affinity for, the changed rules and play.

But I wouldn't use that as a definitive if I was actually breaking things down for a G.O.A.T. discussion, because the time off was a long one and it's understandable that Gibbs would have been out of touch. I'd just acknowledge that as a point I'd have to try minimizing in my evaluations.

For the record I obviously think Bill is the GOAT.
And I see no reason a Patriot fan would take any other take.

After that I think there are very few fan bases who can lay claim to an argument. Lombardi and the Packers fans can argue. I actually think Gibbs has an interesting case.

There aren't many others though. For example Walsh also had Montana and didn't approach 6. That number 6 is so big it's hard to get past it. And everyone else who has won a SB needed the players to do it too.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

For anyone interested in Roquan Smith at LB, he’s off the table now.
Ravens, Roquan Smith agree to five-year extension - ProFootballTalk

 

[sb1]

I wouldn't have guessed that Madden has the best record by win pct as a coach in the Super Bowl era. Matt LaFleur is #5 and Dungy is ahead of BB

 

[Deus Irae]

For the record I obviously think Bill is the GOAT.

That's fine

And I see no reason a Patriot fan would take any other take.

That's a you problem.

After that I think there are very few fan bases who can lay claim to an argument. Lombardi and the Packers fans can argue. I actually think Gibbs has an interesting case.

There aren't many others though. For example Walsh also had Montana and didn't approach 6. That number 6 is so big it's hard to get past it. And everyone else who has won a SB needed the players to do it too.

Every one of the coaches I mentioned has an argument. That you can't see, and acknowledge that, is another you problem. And your Walsh argument is ridiculous. Walsh won 3 titles in 10 years, and left when his team was on top.

 

[mike_usagisan]

For anyone interested in Roquan Smith at LB, he’s off the table now.
Ravens, Roquan Smith agree to five-year extension - ProFootballTalk

It seemed like he was off the table once he was traded.

 

[sb1]

It's tough to look at the all time great coaches then pick one and say that 1) he is the greatest coach of all time and 2) there's no argument for anyone else that he's at the GOAT's level. If we go by rings it's definitely Bill. If we go by wins then it can't be Bill because Shula has more. Etc.

Much easier for a QB. Nobody is at Brady's level. There's no argument to be made otherwise.