Mac Jones Draft scouting report weaknesses ring true

[Tunescribe]

This is a thread about reports on Mac. His strengths/weaknesses etc

What I wrote is relevant bc there are issues that still plague him today that have nothing to do with Patricia. Like his mechanics, lack of ability to deal with certain pressure, being moved off his spot etc. Fast forward and he's working with House, specifically release point. Taking some bad sacks and has been one of the worst QB's while pressured.

You could blame someone else or recognize its been a problem even when he had an all world OL at Bama.

This year isn't excused away bc of poor circumstance(s). Yes he's the least of the big issues but he hasn't play well at all. Things aren't always going to be perfect and he didn't handle adversity well at all. We saw a tiny bit of pouty Mac last year and he didn't hold back this year. We know he can't handle a bad or changing OL. We know he needs scheme catered to him. All that matters when that second contract rolls around and more importantly in the short term - next year.

Also it's good to know exactly what you have rather then just point fingers elsewhere. It matters and you want to know exactly what kind of QB you have.

Josh Allen, Justin Herbert have had banged up OL, players who regressed on there. "Scheme" hasn't always been good this year or last in Herbert's case but the make it work and play well. Guys like Jimmy, Cousins, Carr, Mac need all the help they can get. I get the first few are freaks but we had plenty of people here that thought Mac could be a legit top 10 QB.

Let's set Mac's fits of frustration aside for a moment. I think it bears serious consideration that Patricia's offense is so extremely, uniquely disjointed that no quarterback could transcend it. This encompasses receivers running into each other, play calls taking forever to get in, timeouts wiping out touchdowns, etc. plus a slew of ongoing lineup problems beginning with the OL (re. a RT starting after less than a week on the practice squad) and little in-season WR continuity. Just recently -- might still be the case -- New England led the league in pre-snap offensive penalties. The Patriots have gone through 14 games without a freaking fourth-quarter passing touchdown! How does that happen in this league? On top of it all, Mac missed three games then came back early (by two-four weeks) from a high ankle sprain.

The kid's pocket presence/mechanics/handling pressure were good enough last year to finish as the NFL's 13th-rated passer overall -- pretty damn impressive for a rookie. I have little doubt a second year with McDaniels (or reasonably similar OC) would have produced the anticipated sophomore leap everyone expected out of him. Patricia came aboard taking that for granted without due attention to what went into helping Mac succeed in 2021. He brought a lot of "bright ideas" that included "simplifying away" Mac's arguably best talent, processing at the LOS. Add it all up and NO WONDER the kid's game is circling the drain!

I don't believe much of what you identify as "issues that still plague him today," yet weren't nearly as pronounced last season, can be considered inherent flaws with this player, considering the terribly faulty structure he's been forced to navigate in 2022.

 

[crawhammer]

I think it bears serious consideration that Patricia's offense is so extremely, uniquely disjointed that no quarterback could transcend it. This encompasses receivers running into each other, play calls taking forever to get in, timeouts wiping out touchdowns, etc.

You make it sound like chaos on literally every snap. I'm not in line to defend the coaching staff but you can only take your defense of Mac so far. You think Mahomes and Allen would look like garbage in our offense? That's kind of what you're saying.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

It mean nothing this offense can’t win a playoff game with the current construction and execution of the passing game.

See, that's how spoiled the fan base has become, expect a Super Bowl or it sucks. Those days are over, now it's just hope they play their best and improve and work their way to contention in a year or two.

 

[crawhammer]

See, that's how spoiled the fan base has become, expect a Super Bowl or it sucks. Those days are over, now it's just hope they play their best and improve and work their way to contention in a year or two.

A year or two? Like next season 2023? Consider yourself extremely optimistic.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

You tried turning into a thread patting yourself on the back, and you did it by ignoring the reality of his first season and the impact of ****ty coaching, and surrounding personnel issues this year.

Not really. For months Ive been saying the #1 problem this offsense has is the OL. We've seen offenses excel with simple scheme before and some of the best offenses today run "simple" stuff. I absolutely recognize Jones isn't the biggest problem but he still isn't playing well.

It's not hard to look at certain things from an individual standpoint and Jones. Exclusive from the line and staff, is playing like crap.

And before you try flipping this around onto me, take a moment to remember that I've never been a huge Jones supporter, that I've said he's got to get his arm stronger if he's to have any chance at becoming a legit QB, and that such has been the case since last year. Jones is not Brady. The question has always been whether or not he can become good enough to function as a Brady-lite sort of QB, and the team effectively killed off at least a year of the kid's development by changing the offensive system from one that was suited to his strengths to one that was just about the worst they could have chosen for both the QB and the offense in general.

I've got no dog in this fight other than wanting the team to be good. If Jones is not going to be good enough to get the team into the position of being a consistent SB contender, I'm more than fine with moving on from him: I'm hopeful it will happen. But this dumpster fire that has been this year has prevented us from getting any real clarity on that, and the given "draft scouting report" was suspect when written and is even worse when applied against the Jones at this point in this season.

What report was suspect lol?

You look at these things as a baseline. To see how a prospect has improved or regressed. I don't understand what you mean by suspect. Especially when they're on point.

 

[Tunescribe]

You make it sound like chaos on literally every snap. I'm not in line to defend the coaching staff but you can only take your defense of Mac so far. You think Mahomes and Allen would look like garbage in our offense? That's kind of what you're saying.

I'll assume you watch the games; I haven't seen a Patriots offense this scattershot since pre-Tuna. Aside from the OL woes no way should it be this bad. Minus Stevenson's heroics in the running game, "chaos" is a fitting description. Sure, an Allen or Mahomes could squeeze more out of it but not much with Bluto running the show.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Let's set Mac's fits of frustration aside for a moment. I think it bears serious consideration that Patricia's offense is so extremely, uniquely disjointed that no quarterback could transcend it. This encompasses receivers running into each other, play calls taking forever to get in, timeouts wiping out touchdowns, etc. plus a slew of ongoing lineup problems beginning with the OL (a RT starting after less than a week on the practice squad) and little WR continuity. Just recently -- might still be the case -- New England led the league in pre-snap offensive penalties. The Patriots have gone through 14 games without a freaking fourth-quarter passing touchdown! How does that happen in this league? On top of it all, Mac missed three games then came back early (by two-four weeks) from a high ankle sprain.

The kid's pocket presence/mechanics/handling pressure were good enough last year to finish as the NFL's 13th-rated passer overall -- pretty damn impressive for a rookie. I have little doubt a second year with McDaniels (or reasonably similar OC) would have produced the anticipated sophomore leap everyone expected out of him. Patricia came aboard taking that for granted without due attention to what went into helping Mac succeed in 2021. He brought a lot of "bright ideas" that included "simplifying away" Mac's arguably best talent, processing at the LOS. Add it all up and NO WONDER the kid's game is circling the drain!

I don't believe much of what you identify as "issues that still plague him today," yet weren't nearly as pronounced last season, can be considered inherent flaws with this player, considering the terribly faulty structure he's been forced to navigate in 2022.

Mac is pretty good pre snap but has had trouble post snap dating back to last year for sure. Esp down the stretch but it was there if you look - NO, Buffalo, Indy. Also he was a deer in the headlights every time a defense sent second level pressure. Like I mentioned before he also took some bad sacks. Not all sacks are equal and he took some bad ones. Improved this year but his pocket presence wasn't great at all last year. More in the "good enough" category. Lastly his mechanics and release point is still very inconsistent. Something that's been an issue since college. This matters bc it could unlock some velocity. Anyway it was enough of a problem to specifically work with House on.

All those things you mentioned were absolutely issues. They might not have been terrible or "worst case" but they were issues.

I bet he would have done better with Josh holding his hand as well and as a fan would have preferred that.

You can't just excuse this season away though like some want to do. Or pretend we can't gather anything real about Mac. I mean that's what's scouting is all about. Isolating the individual from the chaos around him. Scouts would be out a job if they said "well we can't determine anything about this prospect bc his line is bad and targets are poor."

Mac isn't the biggest problem on offense but he hasn't handled this year well at all and I'm sorry but if this gets to him. The playoffs will make him go gray.

 

[crawhammer]

I'll assume you watch the games; I haven't seen a Patriots offense this scattershot since pre-Tuna. Aside from the OL woes no way should it be this bad. Aside from Stevenson's heroics in the running game "chaos" is a fitting description. Sure, an Allen or Mahomes could squeeze more out of it but not much with Bluto running the show.

The second half of the 1999 season was a complete sh*t show on offense. That 2020 Cam offense was a painful exercise. Image if Brady wasn't the quarterback for those misfit receivers in 2006? Or 2013?

I agree Stevenson is the lone bright spot for the offense this season. Zappe was fun until the fourth quarter of the Chicago game. Everyone else is a C or worse. The coaching staff gets an F.

 

[borg]

You make it sound like chaos on literally every snap. I'm not in line to defend the coaching staff but you can only take your defense of Mac so far. You think Mahomes and Allen would look like garbage in our offense? That's kind of what you're saying.

What has gotten lost in the discourse is how BB & Co sought a jump-ball specialist in the offseason to catch Corky's downfield floaters this season.
And with the 50/50 specialist on board, Corky excelled at INTs.

Fast forward......

The coaches/consultants now game plan screen passes, and more screen passes because they have little faith knowing full well Mac's limited skillset.
7 TD passes in 12 starts says it all.....
NO FAITH WHATSOEVER in placing the offense in Corky's hands.
The conservative play calling is an indictment of Mac and how the NE brain trust perceive his few strengths and many limitations.

Hell........Zappe had 5 TD passes in 2 starts after playing catch with the scouting team all training camp

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

What has gotten lost in the discourse is how BB & Co sought a jump-ball specialist in the offseason to catch Corky's downfield floaters this season.
And with the 50/50 specialist on board, Corky excelled at INTs.

Fast forward......

The coaches/consultants now game plan screen passes, and more screen passes because they have little faith knowing full well Mac's limited skillset.
7 TD passes in 12 starts says it all.....
NO FAITH WHATSOEVER in placing the offense in Corky's hands.
The conservative play calling is an indictment of Mac and how the NE brain trust perceive his few strengths and many limitations.

Hell........Zappe had 5 TD passes in 2 starts after playing catch with the scouting team all training camp

Yup. Mac excelled throwing deep in college. We let it loose a little and he's tossing INTs with multiple TO worthy plays a game. Now it's "too simple" with all screens.

Again he's the least of the problems but ignoring this stuff away isn't helping. I guarantee it doesn't happen in any football space. Not when you're calling concepts and giving out contracts that eventually come back to coaches and front office. People want to know exactly what they have a guy.

 

[Tunescribe]

Mac is pretty good pre snap but has had trouble post snap dating back to last year for sure. Esp down the stretch but it was there if you look - NO, Buffalo, Indy. Also he was a deer in the headlights every time a defense sent second level pressure. Like I mentioned before he also took some bad sacks. Not all sacks are equal and he took some bad ones. Improved this year but his pocket presence wasn't great at all last year. More in the "good enough" category. Lastly his mechanics and release point is still very inconsistent. Something that's been an issue since college. This matters bc it could unlock some velocity. Anyway it was enough of a problem to specifically work with House on.

All those things you mentioned were absolutely issues. They might not have been terrible or "worst case" but they were issues.

I bet he would have done better with Josh holding his hand as well and as a fan would have preferred that.

You can't just excuse this season away though like some want to do. Or pretend we can't gather anything real about Mac. I mean that's what's scouting is all about. Isolating the individual from the chaos around him. Scouts would be out a job if they said "well we can't determine anything about this prospect bc his line is bad and targets are poor."

Mac isn't the biggest problem on offense but he hasn't handled this year well at all and I'm sorry but if this gets to him. The playoffs will make him go gray.

It's a given every young QB will have problems/issues to work on and no doubt Mac's were accurately identified by the cited scouting reports. But re. this season specifically, objectively identifying how/where things went so terribly wrong is what I'm interested in vs. excusing it away. The bolded portion of your last sentence sums it up, suggesting whatever Mac's struggles are would be surmountable under better circumstances (coaching, OL, etc.).

Agreed Mac hasn't handled it well, at least from what's been revealed publicly. He has some growing up to do, but then a lot of other players on his side of the ball reportedly are exasperated to the point of just going through the motions. That's how bad it has gotten under Patricia's watch.

 

[Ian]

"But if Belichick decides a change is needed, then obviously we'll be on board with that."

It's pretty simple. Bill sees both players in practice every day. Obviously, he and the coaches know more than we do. They draw up the plays. They know what's supposed to happen and see the film with what he does.

I mean, honestly, if Mac was screwing up as royally and missing guys - Sunday aside - as often as so many people like to believe he is, do you honestly believe he'd still be in there? Not a chance. He'd be on the bench, especially if he's telling off Patricia on television and then blowing reads left and right.

Coaches in the NFL, Patricia and Judge included, get fired every day when a player doesn't do what they're asked. If that was happening, Mac would have been yanked a long time ago. They're not taking the fall for him and they'd start Zappe in a second if that was the case, I can absolutely promise you that.

That aside, my response was in regard to the claim that there's a "Mac crew" that is just ignoring his mistakes and that we somehow won't change our minds. I simply pointed out that most of us on this supposed "Mac crew" are letting the kid - who is a second-year player - try and work out the kinks and improve. You can't just kick a second-year player to the curb without letting him deal with adversity. Or at least historically, that's been a bad move unless the player has truly shown he can't do it. Same thing with the team in general. Stuff happens. We see it every year.

Yes, I've already broken down the numbers, posted them, and pointed out that it's the worst game of his career. That can't continue. I've mentioned this multiple times.

Zappe's under contract for three more years after this. They're not in any rush to make a decision because they've got plenty of time there. They have three games left, and I'm sure by then, we'll have a sense of how they'll approach things heading into next year. I'm just patient enough to let it play out.

If Mac finishes poorly, Zappe's going to have the same opportunity to get stronger this offseason that Mac had and it could set up an interesting camp. But I'm not going to give up on the kid unless he reaches a point where there's no longer anything positive on film to think he can do the job.

But this is what we're up against. We had an elite QB. We don't have that now. I've had to lower my own expectations, and it is what it is. So we're going to have to try and win with a guy who can make some throws and not turn it over. It sucks, but that's what we have and that's what we're in for unless our own Mahomes or Josh Allen drops into our laps. But you and I could age 10 years before that happens again.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Per Bleacher report- ZAPPE

"
POSITIVES

— Very good accuracy. Can change arm angles to throw with touch.

— Shows a very good understanding of the concepts being run. Consistently operates on time and throws with anticipation. Has calm eyes and progresses.

— Very good accuracy on short and intermediate throws. Gets the ball out early and gives his receivers room to operate after the catch.

— Throws a very catchable deep ball. Gets it out early and throws with high loft.


— Tight and consistent footwork in the pocket. Stays balanced and ready to throw.

— Not an overwhelming athlete but a good thrower when on the move. Remains accurate out of structure.

— Very productive throughout his career.
t
NEGATIVES

— Below-average arm strength.

— Average height for the position.

And we've seen Bailey Zappe make those plays out of the pocket. It's time to FREE Bailey Zappe and see what he can do!

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

People can learn grit through adversity. The Patriots have given him plenty of adversity this year. He has had to endure an inexperienced OC, who installed a new dumbed down system, robbing Jones of one of his strengths.

Maybe this was the purpose of letting patricia run the offense this year. So far the only theory that makes sense ! And now imagine how easier everything will be for mac when he has a real oc again and hopefully more talent at wr. I knew bb was onto something here

 

[captain stone]

The Mac crew cares more about Mac as the NE starter than the Patriots winning... Another favorite excuse is that Mac is forced to run a harder offense to execute than Zappe. Zappe only wins because he has it easier than Jones.

It's sad that the Mac crew does not care about exhausting every possible option to win this season. The Pat's have a real good team too.

Yep; if this team had just replacement-level quarterbacking AND/OR PLAY-CALLING, they would be 10-4 right now with some cushion heading into these 3 final games...

 

[Brewskies]

Free Zappe let him play the remaining 3 and let Mac Jones relax, take the pressure off Jones for the remainder of 2022/23. Imagine if Mac Jones loses the next 3 games. Cinny, is a loss, Miami is a win and the Bills are a loss as of now without Jones and with Zappe. Zappe could lose the next 3 without it having a negative on him, not so for Jones, IMO.

 

[Deus Irae]

Yep; if this team had just replacement-level play-calling & quarterbacking, they would be 10-4 right now with some cushion heading into these 3 final games...

Stop going after the QB. That just gives a false excuse to the coaching staff. Pin the blame where it belongs, which is directly on the coaching and GM.

 

[ashley]

Let's put that Pro Bowl to bed, he ONLY made it as an Alternate.

It's the holiday season, you're not getting me down with those "minor, immaterial little facts"..let's jump on board and support our favorite team, like only you can!!!!!!!!!!! Tis the season to be Merrry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Triumph]

Under that same argument, which drives me bonkers, we were a weak team who made a living feasting off weak teams for 20-years.

Really?

So the 2001 Rams were a weak team? Makes no sense since they were 14 point favorites to beat NE in SB36.

Baltimore is always a tough out. Pittsburgh, Tennessee, Kansas City, Indianapolis were led by HOF QBs.

And not because you said it - but because the rest of the NFL world brings that up constantly about the team's history. It's a bad and unfair argument. We play whoever is on the schedule, whether we stink or not.

Mac Jones racked up the points vs bottom feeder teams last season and was crowned the Guy.

 

[Triumph]

Last year, as an example, Mac throws a pick-six against Dallas and McDaniels comes right back with that deep shot to Bourne, which obviously went for a touchdown. This year, any play that goes sideways, Patricia goes conservative. You have to admit, the contrast is significant.

I mean, no flea-flickers, no wide receiver throws (we had there of them at this time last year), no back shoulder throws, etc. Nothing. For what's essentially about to be 16 weeks.

Every week posters here find pictures of NE WRs or TEs that are open.

Most recently vs the Raiders, Meyers standing before the goal line all by himself for a walk in TD. Instead Jones threw the check down for a 5 yard loss.

You can deny it all you want but Judon called Mac out for doing almost nothing in the Buffalo win last season. Trent Brown just cast his vote for a new QB next season. Jon Vilma said "Dont count on Mac Jones to score" during the NE vs LV broadcast. The truth is getting out.

If this is Patsfans.Com and not Macfans.Com you will welcome and advocate for a change at QB because this guy isnt cutting it.