Game Day Thread Official Post Game Thread- Raiders beat the Pats

[State]

Poor coaching kills teams and players more than poor talent. Heck look at Tua with his new coach vs before.

This is a winning analysis. Cuz it’s true.

Thought experiment for you. What would the Patriots offense be like if they had the 49ers coaches?

 

[upstater1]

Great point. That was the crack in the door.

And that has paid obvious dividends the last two drafts, which have been much better.

So precedent has been set. Now it’s time to intervene with the coaches on the offensive side of the ball.

Leave his sons alone in the defensive side, other than making Jerrod Mayo the DC.

Slim to moderate chance that the head coach may accept this. At 70 he probably doesn’t see himself starting over.

How much to you want it, Bill? Surpassing Shula’s win total.

I suspect that that is his white whale. Being atop the record books.

Kraft reports something and then I guess it's true.

But really, when you take a step back, did the drafting change?

Because the 2020 draft with 3 potential Pro Bowlers wasn't bad. It was run by a guy who is no longer here, but Belichick was the ultimate decision maker.

The last 3 drafts were al run by different people, and none of them were Kraft's hand picked guys. Groh has the Belichick connections from the 1980s when his father coached under Belichick.

Kraft wasn't said to intervene until just prior to the 2021 draft.

 

[upstater1]

.

 

[signbabybrady]

Kraft reports something and then I guess it's true.

But really, when you take a step back, did the drafting change?

Because the 2020 draft with 3 potential Pro Bowlers wasn't bad. It was run by a guy who is no longer here, but Belichick was the ultimate decision maker.

The last 3 drafts were al run by different people, and none of them were Kraft's hand picked guys. Groh has the Belichick connections from the 1980s when his father coached under Belichick.

Kraft wasn't said to intervene until just prior to the 2021 draft.

They are all Bills drafts. Kraft may have intervened to force him to lean on Groh more like he did previously with Casserio but he did not strip him of any power I don't believe that.

 

[upstater1]

This is a winning analysis. Cuz it’s true.

Thought experiment for you. What would the Patriots offense be like if they had the 49ers coaches?

Is it? McDaniel has done an excellent job. But adding Tyreek Hill, Terron Armstead, Connor Williams helps. A lot.

I want Patricia gone.

I'm sure though that the offense would be improved if we add the best WR in the game, and 2 top tackles in FA this summer.

 

[upstater1]

They are all Bills drafts. Kraft may have intervened to force him to lean on Groh more like he did previously with Casserio but he did not strip him of any power I don't believe that.

There was a guy before Groh. Groh took over this year. Dave Ziegler did the last draft, and Belichick had the draft before that.

3 successful drafts in a row, each of them run by 3 different people.

Kraft only intervened in 2021 before the 2nd of the 3 drafts. We don't even know how much of that intervention is true.

Kraft maybe assumed that the Dugger, Onwenu and Uche picks were bad. Who knows?

 

[upstater1]

More specifically, what is the value of Jonnu Smith, the $50 million TE, who was targeted a couple of times early against the Raiders and then disappeared?

Or a great Patriot like Devin McCourty who is obviously not the player he once was for so many years. He is being paid $9 million this year, the seventh highest at his position in the league and the 11th highest in the team.

Devin McCourty

Devin McCourty contract and salary cap details, full contract breakdowns, salaries, signing bonus, roster bonus, dead money, and valuations.

www.spotrac.com

What is that about? Being a good mentor and locker room guy?

"Hold the fort"

 

[PatsFanSince74]

That part of the conversation should Really go something like: "This is what Jonathan and I are TELLING YOU what you need to do..."

Bill has Forever lost the right to tell ANYONE what he wants... In fact just turn in your Executive Washroom key right now while you're here Bill...

We'll have to agree to disagree.
In the next line I wrote: "Just fix it."
In the next,: "We can revisit this next December."

Belichick's (with New England), 261 Regular Season wins, 30 Playoff wins, nine Conference Championships and six Lombardi's buy him, in my view, another year.

In addition, I really don't think that Robert and Jonathan have the knowledge or standing to be "TELLING" (your caps, no need to shout) the man with that record what to do at this point. His performance has, arguably, increased their Net Worth by over $1billion...or more, which has bought a whole lot more than a "Washroom key" for their family.

They do, however, have the right and standing to simply fire him. But, I think that would be a mistake, since the alternative is not clear...certainly no one on the Staff at the moment.

By telling the man who is arguably the greatest HC in the history of the NFL (I take it we would have to agree to disagree on that as well) to "Just fix it," followed by "We can revisit this next December" they are effectively saying, in corporate speak, "Get it done or we're going to fire you. You've earned the right to decide what you want to do."

If I were him, the message would be clear and I might just decide to quit...but $22 million a year is a lot to walk out on...still a drop in the bucket though in comparison to what he's brought the Kraft family.

In general, as Patriots fans for the last (for myself at least) 48 years, we have been badly spoiled by the last 20. The Pats are not in a good place right now...but they are still far better off than many other franchises and current teams...much of this is attributable to TB12, but much also to Bill Belichick.

The Packers, Steelers, Cowboys and 49'ers (the only Franchises that deserve to be compared to the Patriots, IMO) have all wandered in the wilderness at different times and for a lot longer than the Patriots have been struggling. I can't think of anyone I would rather have fixing it than Bill Belichick.

 

[JarOfMayo51]

More specifically, what is the value of Jonnu Smith, the $50 million TE, who was targeted a couple of times early against the Raiders and then disappeared?

Or a great Patriot like Devin McCourty who is obviously not the player he once was for so many years. He is being paid $9 million this year, the seventh highest at his position in the league and the 11th highest in the team.

Devin McCourty

Devin McCourty contract and salary cap details, full contract breakdowns, salaries, signing bonus, roster bonus, dead money, and valuations.

www.spotrac.com

What is that about? Being a good mentor and locker room guy?

McCourty at least has an excuse, he’s 35 years old and at the end of his career

I didn’t think he’d even be on team this year, but at least he’s a team captain and can help mentor the secondary who has played pretty well this year

it’s time for him to retire

But guys like jonnu and agholor are robbing this team blind

 

[archstanton543]

I can't think of anyone I would rather have fixing it than Bill Belichick.

A guy who's content with working with friends and family when major changes need to be made. Most people don't look to a 23 year incumbent when they're looking for change.

 

[upstater1]

We'll have to agree to disagree.
In the next line I wrote: "Just fix it."
In the next,: "We can revisit this next December."

Belichick's (with New England), 261 Regular Season wins, 30 Playoff wins, nine Conference Championships and six Lombardi's buy him, in my view, another year.

In addition, I really don't think that Robert and Jonathan have the knowledge or standing to be "TELLING" (your caps, no need to shout) the man with that record what to do at this point. His performance has, arguably, increased their Net Worth by over $1billion...or more, which has bought a whole lot more than a "Washroom key" for their family.

They do, however, have the right and standing to simply fire him. But, I think that would be a mistake, since the alternative is not clear...certainly no one on the Staff at the moment.

By telling the man who is arguably the greatest HC in the history of the NFL (I take it we would have to agree to disagree on that as well) to "Just fix it," followed by "We can revisit this next December" they are effectively saying, in corporate speak, "Get it done or we're going to fire you. You've earned the right to decide what you want to do."

If I were him, the message would be clear and I might just decide to quit...but $22 million a year is a lot to walk out on...still a drop in the bucket though in comparison to what he's brought the Kraft family.

In general, as Patriots fans for the last (for myself at least) 48 years, we have been badly spoiled by the last 20. The Pats are not in a good place right now...but they are still far better off than many other franchises and current teams...much of this is attributable to TB12, but much also to Bill Belichick.

The Packers, Steelers, Cowboys and 49'ers (the only Franchises that deserve to be compared to the Patriots, IMO) have all wandered in the wilderness at different times and for a lot longer than the Patriots have been struggling. I can't think of anyone I would rather have fixing it than Bill Belichick.

Most of the personnel is here for making a run next year.

Big pieces are missing.

QB and offensive coordinator.

There have been lots of teams with this problem. Need competence at those 2 slots, and things will change instantly.?

My fear is that the defense has been built for a Belichick style defense, and that any new coaches might find many of our defensive players useless. We don't have a lot of stars back there but they work together as a unit. A new coach comes in and he jettisons Godchaux, Wise, Bentley, Dugger, Phillips, and then what do we have?

 

[signbabybrady]

There was a guy before Groh. Groh took over this year. Dave Ziegler did the last draft, and Belichick had the draft before that.

3 successful drafts in a row, each of them run by 3 different people.

Kraft only intervened in 2021 before the 2nd of the 3 drafts. We don't even know how much of that intervention is true.

Kraft maybe assumed that the Dugger, Onwenu and Uche picks were bad. Who knows?

That's more my point I'm not saying Kraft didn't say or do something but I don't believe he stripped Bill of any power and thus all drafts have been run by Bill.

 

[tasmlab]

If it hasn't been said yet, we're on to Cincinnati.

Praise be! That's where everything turns around, right?

 

[Twentytothree]

In the first line you're saying that we know what the coach's instructions were and in the second line you're saying we don't.

That bigger question is why some fans don't believe what they're being told and why they don't have faith in the offensive coaching.

That can't be a real question? With the exception of Stevenson, everyone on the offense is playing far below the abilities they've demonstrated in the past, on the Patriots or elsewhere. In many metrics they are at the league bottom. At some point one needs to look at the common denominator.

 

[PatsFan2]

I had actually looked forwar to rebuilding after brady left. New players coming together and getting better year after year on the way to Super Bowl contention, but this is not going the way i thought it would turn out. The team is regressing, its undisciplined, makes the saame dumb mistakes week after week, same penalties week after week etc. it looks to me like they aren't coached like pats teams of the past. Plus the players and coaching leaves much to be desired.

On the Nelson Agholor missed toe tap along the sidelines that looked close enough. A Brady lead Patriots Team would have been at the LOS running a quick play to beat the challenge. Instead this Team gets a delay of game with their pedestrian play calls...the little things I tell ya.

 

[Ollie]

On the Nelson Agholor missed toe tap along the sidelines that looked close enough. A Brady lead Patriots Team would have been at the LOS running a quick play to beat the challenge. Instead this Team gets a delay of game with their pedestrian play calls...the little things I tell ya.

I thought the team was ready but the ref was standing over the ball and Mcdaniels got the challenge in

 

[PatsFan2]

I thought the team was ready but the ref was standing over the ball and Mcdaniels got the challenge in

Didn't they get two or three delay of game calls?? Those things were unheard of in times past.

 

[Ollie]

Didn't they get two or three delay of game calls?? Those things were unheard of in times past.I

I was responding specifically to your point about the play of the challenge

 

[SVN]

A guy who's content with working with friends and family when major changes need to be made. Most people don't look to a 23 year incumbent when they're looking for change.

This is a small sample size. yes its true he has done that and messed it up. But look at the last 20 yrs . when he had to do major changes he did. He flipped the offensive system in 2007. He made McDaniels - a 24 yr QB coach coaching a 3 time SB winning QB the OC.They moved on from dean pees. The changed the offense multiple times . Yes having brady allows him to do it. But he put together the staff around him as well and didnt bring back charlie weiss for e.g as a friends and family situation. Or romeo for that matter. So he has the history of making changes. He thought IMO that if matt P could do a decent job and learn on being a OC like McDaniels also came from a defensive assitant role , he wont have to worry about him leaving next yr but he made a bad bad judgement.
At the end he is two issues. the OC .And the rank insubordination and discontent from the players and the QB because that stands against the culture he has tried to run for the last 20 yrs.

 

[TinhWoodhead]

Regarding the controversial reviewed td, it just occurred to me this was the raiders payback for the tuck rule game