Game Day Thread Official Post Game Thread- Pats beat Arizona

[One-If-By-Sea]

It's the coach's job to get the best out of his players. Of course, that doesn't mean "baby sitting". These are professional football players. And there are some players you can't reach for whatever reason. But it's clearly not just Wynn (whom Reiss described as being friendly and approachable at one time). What about putting Bourne into the doghouse? I can't say what is going on, of course, but I do know that Dante got the most out of his linemen by coaching them hard but giving them respect and (as he himself said) love.

If you compare to Dante, every future OL coach will be bad.

 

[Mike the Brit]

If you compare to Dante, every future OL coach will be bad.

Of course I compare with Dante. In this respect, he shows you how it should be done. Compared with him, every future OL coach won't be "bad" -- some will be further behind than others.

 

[archstanton543]

If you compare to Dante, every future OL coach will be bad.

Having standards is bad?

 

[ashley]

Cleaning out the Patriots notebook, like only Reiss can do: Interesting he notes the O-line as the biggest issue for this offense, I agree 100%.

 

[Toofy]

Wynn @ LT can we see Wynn in Practice first??

What is his injury. He seems to not have caught anything major. Seems to be more of a benching in guise of injury .

 

[signbabybrady]

What is his injury. He seems to not have caught anything major. Seems to be more of a benching in guise of injury .

You think we'd rather McDermott

 

[PScottman]

Having standards is bad?

Not at all. Having unrealistic expectations of replacement is when considering alternatives. Just like replacing Brady...the Dante replacement will (almost, there is always an infinitesimal statistical chance) never have the skills, abilities, experience, et al. Also this approach doesn't consider that the replacement can also be worse! Not to mention the addition of ANOTHER new approach, style, etc that forces the entire offense to re-learn again. It's not just the simple "one for one".

Now replacing Patricia/Yates is an altogether different proposition which it appears many here agree on , but adding on that any replacement of those two must have the same standard capability as Dante?

This is the same as the "Get rid of Mac and just get a QB that can perennially have the Patriots in the hunt for a Super Bowl" topic that came up earlier. Sure why don't you ask for something difficult???

From the change perspective, I'm leaning toward getting rid of the "dual" coach thing - name the OL coach period (prefer Yates) and get at least one new OT in here. With all of the variables at play I am not on board with the "burn it all down" approach without at least eliminating some of those variables.

 

[Toofy]

You think we'd rather McDermott

Valid point . But this guy hasn't played much at all. How can he even be injured.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

I was rewatching the pierre strong highlights and on the last big run I noticed mac was somehow right there when strong is tackled 20 yards downfield lol at the very least i do like his enthusiasm and fire

 

[PatsFan2]

I was rewatching the pierre strong highlights and on the last big run I noticed mac was somehow right there when strong is tackled 20 yards downfield lol at the very least i do like his enthusiasm and fire

I am glad P Strong Jr is getting some Rookie playing time he's going be a beast going forward both running and catching.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

I am glad P Strong Jr is getting some Rookie playing time he's going be a beast going forward both running and catching.

Agreed if monday is any indication. He can be a legit weapon if we get an oc who knows how to run an offense

 

[captain stone]

Cleaning out the Patriots notebook, like only Reiss can do: Interesting he notes the O-line as the biggest issue for this offense, I agree 100%.

"...The play Mac Jones was intercepted (1Q/2:15) reflects one of my biggest questions about the Patriots' offense, and I wonder if it hits at the heart of why there's been such inconsistency in the transition from the Josh McDaniels-coordinated offense of the prior decade to the 2022 version. For all the focus on the play-calling, the greater issue might be how the Patriots are setting their protections/blocking schemes and executing them. On the play, in which the Cardinals rushed five, the Patriots had their five OL block three DL. That left a 1-on-1 pickup for Kevin Harris on safety Budda Baker - a reasonable ask for any RB in that situation - and TE Hunter Henry 1-on-1 on the edge against 6-foot-4, 267-pound OLB Cameron Thomas. The latter part is puzzling to me. It's possible there was a mental error by one of the OL, because otherwise, my question is "In what world would the team want to put Henry in that situation?" Thomas pushed Henry back and barreled into Jones to help create the INT..."

Mike must read PatsFans...

 

[PatsFan2]

K Bourne threw some really key blocks on a couple of good runs I am sure BB is taking notice of that good job K Bourne.

 

[captain stone]

What is his injury. He seems to not have caught anything major. Seems to be more of a benching in guise of injury .

Lose/Lose's "injury" is listed as "foot"... As in the one up his azz...

You think we'd rather McDermott

If L/L had been available, I would've returned him to LT in place of Big Brown, who's been Terrible for whatever reason, and kept McDermott at RT until Cachoo's ready, whenever that is... Or perhaps return Brown to RT where he's better-suited at this stage of his career anyway.

Valid point . But this guy hasn't played much at all. How can he even be injured.

He more likely than not isn't really that injured; but he already has his $10M kiss from the team, and he's obviously still upset that they moved him from LT, so this is his way of saying FU to Matt & Bill because he's been mentally checked-out All Season Long.

 

[Patsfan1958]

"Hard Knocks" shows Cardinals prepared for Patriots like it's still the dynasty era

J.J. Watt is, obviously, one of the best defensive linemen in NFL history, and he's a lock for the Hall of Fame. Now in his 12th NFL season, Watt waited patiently for Matthew Judon (who moved into a tie for the NFL lead in sacks in that game) to finish up his on-field postgame interviews so that he could talk to the Patriots' pass-rush extraordinaire.

"Guy's playing his balls off," Watt told a Cardinals staffer who checked on him as he stood silently in the middle of the field by himself. "I want to tell him."

Sure enough, Watt delivered that exact message.

WATT: Hey, you're playing your balls off, brother.
JUDON: So much respect, man.
WATT: I appreciate you.
JUDON: So much respect. You've been doing it for a long time. And we all watching, man. We all following you, man. Good s---.
WATT: I appreciate you, keep it up.
JUDON: Yes, sir. You as well.
WATT: Have fun out there.

A nice moment between two great players.

 

[PScottman]

"Hard Knocks" shows Cardinals prepared for Patriots like it's still the dynasty era

J.J. Watt is, obviously, one of the best defensive linemen in NFL history, and he's a lock for the Hall of Fame. Now in his 12th NFL season, Watt waited patiently for Matthew Judon (who moved into a tie for the NFL lead in sacks in that game) to finish up his on-field postgame interviews so that he could talk to the Patriots' pass-rush extraordinaire.

"Guy's playing his balls off," Watt told a Cardinals staffer who checked on him as he stood silently in the middle of the field by himself. "I want to tell him."

Sure enough, Watt delivered that exact message.


A nice moment between two great players.

Just read in "Reiss' after game notes"...

Matt Judon and JJ Watt were caught after the game in the tunnel coming to blows...witnesses say it had something to do over a disagreement of which appreciated the other more.

 

[cupofjoe1962]

I mean you're not wrong. Plenty of other good suggestions out there too. But way easier to say then to actually execute when your OL has been a rotation of suck, injured, and sick. And now our top 2 WRs are hurt. Obviously our QB dealt with a significant for several weeks too.

I agree, and I put the blame on Belichick & Patricia. If Belichick did not have his resume, he would be shown the door “with his kids” after this season

 

[Mike the Brit]

Mike must read PatsFans...

Of course he does, captain:

"Almost every time the Patriots oftense stalled, it was a result of a blocking breakdown. The second play of the game, an unblocked defender brought down Rhamondre Stevenson on a 1-yard run. Not. Even. Blocked." [Note: Not the second play of the game but the second Patriots offensive play of the game]​

​

He could just as well have taken the second Patriots play from scrimmage.

Mac has made a nice throw for a first down and it's 1st-and-10. There are 4 Cardinals lined up with one, number 41, offset to the right. Trent Brown just looks straight ahead and blocks the man in front of him. Number 41 comes in behind the line completely unblocked and stops Stevenson in the backfield. My goodness!

View attachment 48252

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

@BCG, I have a question for you . Looks like most of the offensive lines are decimated by injuries leave apart few like eagles and cowboys . Can the QB overcome it or is it more dependent on playcalling .
If there is no protection, then the only option is screen or handoffs which is what Patricia is doing . What more do you think Patricia can bring in.

Sorry haven't been here

Certain QB's can work with pressure. A lot of the time they themselves invite it for big plays (Wilson, Watson, Burrow, Allen) but Mac just doesn't have those unique traits to scramble, buy time and survive in short areas. Which is fine but it just emphasizes the need for a top tier OL. A guy like Josh that will hold his hand. And It looks like we definitely need to bring in a real WR1 or hope Thornton turns in to onte next year.


The big problem here is the inconsistencies of the line. The people harping on the play calling are ignoring the biggest piece of the puzzle on offense. Without a OL it doesn't matter if you have Brady and Josh back there. It's football 101. I could name 50 guys id rather have than Patricia but play calling is not the biggest problem in terms of why this offense isn't functional. Hes not the most creative but we've moved the ball fine when the line is competent. Red zone is another story. Him and Judge are definitely spread too thin and the offensive line is paying the price. And you can trace it back to weeks 3-5 when things started to go to ****. Injuries, Wynn's regression, Strange up and down play, Brown taken a small real step back. It's all there if you don't have bias.


We could definitely use more and be more consistent when using motion, shifts and misdirection. If Marcus Jones is part of this offense going forward id like to see him in that role. Maybe use him or Thornton on some reverses off orbit. We've been using it (motion) to give some of our guys a free release but could use more of it overall, throughout the game. And again throw on some wrinkles.
The lack of targets and usage of Bourne is a crime. He's someone that can give us some easy yac. Has a chemistry with Mac and is a proven player.
How many trick plays have we used? Hes been around Josh long enough to have picked up on a few plays. Id like to see something off all those screens we run. Even a simple fleaflicker.
Keep up the RPO usage. It's about time. Keep it up and throw down field. Our line is sloppy, you have to be discipline to take shots down field off RPO but it's not a flag fest you'd think.
We have to make it a point to take a few deep shots. We've become conservative. Mac was a good deep passer in college and this offense desperately needs some explosive plays/yards. If Thornton is healthy he need to be running some sprints out there to help stretch the field.


There's a few other things but without a competent, functional OL it's hard to say what will work. Especially with the number of different combos we've been using. That's the point I've been trying to make. You could have Payton calling plays. It doesn't matter if your line sucks. Conversely you can win with simplicity IF your line is strong, versatile, mentally tough and plays together. I mean - Gibbs, Shanahan, McVay, McCarthy, Kubiak will all work off of about 7 different plays/concepts. Very few run concepts but when they have the right group that can execute it can be extremely tough to a
stop.

Again there's a 50 names I'd throw out there to replace Patricia but until we fix the OL this offense isn't going anywhere.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Funny, the Kurt Warner video that the anti-Mac crowd likes to quote, Warner praises Jones’ post snap processing from his rookie season.


One of the things I loved about Mac last year is that he's so good at processing information. Sometimes last year I thought he processed information too fast, meaning he got off certain reads too quickly because they hadn't developed," Warner told ESPN's Mike Reiss. "This year, I think they've kind of taken his superpower away because they've simplified everything."

Are Patriots failing Mac Jones? Kurt Warner, Dan Orlovsky share concerning takes

Former NFL quarterbacks Kurt Warner and Dan Orlovsky are on the same page regarding who deserves blame for Mac Jones' struggles this season -- and what the consequences may be.

sports.yahoo.com

And here is a video from Waldman breaking down a play from Jones where he said Jones “has always been excellent at pocket management” and then goes on how Jones processes all that is going on around him.



Here is audio where Waldman say Mac Jones’ ceiling is Peyton Manning.



And I provided a whole write up where Waldman compared Jones predraft to Peyton Manning. So I am wondering where the slow processor stuff is coming from. Here are some of the key points again from the article:

• Jones’ pocket presence might be the best of the quarterbacks in this class.
  
  • He understands how to preempt pressure with his movement.
  • He maneuvers with the pocket with timeliness and efficiency.
  • He will take big hits to deliver an accurate throw.
• Jones is more creative and quicker to adapt to unexpected events than he might be characterized.

The Rookie Scouting Portfolio (RSP)Matt Waldman’s RSP Film Room: QB Mac Jones (Alabama) with Mark Schofield

Mark Schofield and Matt Waldman examine several plays from Mac Jones’ portfolio of work and begin to wonder if the more apt comparison for Jones isn’t Peyton Manning. Another polarizing…

mattwaldmanrsp.com

These don’t look like things Waldman would say if he thought Jones had problems processing information post snap.

I never said Jones was special. I do think it is ironic that the things he did very well in his college years and last year are the things people kill him for the most.

You obviously didn't read his portfolio where he goes into detail about such things.

You really think I'm "misrepresenting" or making this up? I screenshoted you a part from his portfolio.
"These don’t look like things Waldman would say if he thought Jones had problems processing information post snap."

Ok well this is literally what he said on Jones regarding processing ...



It was something Jones displayed but hasn't improved to this year. We've guys improve or grow stagnant. So I'm not closing the book on this but we haven't seen an improved this year.

When it came to decision making Waldman said he thought about giving guys like Jones, Lawrence and Lance "higher marks" bc their "low points" resulted in a "committee caliber" grade for Jones, Trask, Mills, Buechele. Which is average. He had no one in starter or star caliber.

He had Jones in the "star caliber" for sensing pressure but so far has been more wrong than right. That's where me and him disagreed the most. I recognized that early on. Jones has real trouble with sudden, immediate pressure. Around him and second level.

I understand Matt had a high grade on Mac but most of us go into real detail. Just bc you get a high grade doesn't mean there aren't flaws, low points and weaknesses.

I definitely wasn't misrepresenting anything Waldman said for a few reasons. I'm literally providing his own words and made it a point to say I was talking about specific things relating to Mac. Processing, decision making etc in my post a few pages back. I made that quite clear. I'm nothing but transparent and honest!