Game Day Thread Official Post Game Thread- Pats beat Arizona

[Jim Beankie]

While I don't agree with both of you about Burrow (he's been good under pressure, has also wilted under pressure, too early to earn the name Joe Cool), I do agree with your assessment of Mac.

That being said, stud QBs are very rare in the NFL. You have to win with who brought you, you can't sit around waiting for a Mahomes, Allen, Herbert. There are 3 top guys in the NFL right now. Burrow is very good and he's on the next tier. Not there yet, IMO. I worry about him a bit after seeing him in the playoffs last year; I thought his team carried him. Regardless, not every team can take the best QB in the draft.

Most teams have to win with second tier QBs or even 3rd tier. Mac has to be much better for us to ever reach a Super Bowl, BUT he doesn't have to be Herbert or even Joe Burrow.

I look around and this idea of us waiting for a stud doesn't seem realistic or even probable.

Burrow also had the unbelievable luck of playing with Ja'Marr, whom he played with for 2 years at LSU. That kind of experience is invaluable in regards to chemistry/timing. It'd be like if we got Mac and Devonta Smith at close to the same time.

 

[PScottman]

After that it depends of what you want. If you want to be in the mix every year to win the SB then Mac Jones in not your guy. If you want to be around .500 football every year. Sometimes be in the playoff, sometimes not and maybe win 1 if you have a loaded team then Mac is perfectly fine for that.

And the odds of getting that type guy via ANY means (draft or free agency)? There's a lot of zeros before that 1 in the percentage otherwise every team would have one. And that's EVEN if you tank and lose every game on purpose as the GMs that drafted Leaf, Bledsoe, George, Ware, etc, etc, etc found out - even "can't miss" franchise QBs...miss.

This another example of expectation management..."being in the mix for a Super Bowl every year" is simply not the God-given right of Patriots fans.

 

[PScottman]

I disagree on Stafford. 4900 yds 41 TD 17 INT
In the regular season and 1200 yds 9 TD 3 INT in the post season is not game managing to me.

That's fine, but my criteria wasn't numbers - it was QBs that carry a team to the playoffs basically on their own even if significant portions of the rest of their team isn't great. Stafford literally never did that even with gaudy numbers. He needed a great WR corps, a solid defense, and a great coach...that's A LOT.

 

[captain stone]

Jones's or Belichick's?

Corky"s... If they had ended the half without points after being given great field position by Kliffy, aka the Brandon Staley of NFC coaches, then I wonder if Bill would've considered starting Zappy to begin the 2nd half...

 

[crawhammer]

Patriots unfortunately have to go 10-7 w/ a win against the Dolphins. That's a MUST.

So, they have to beat either the Bills or Cincy. Gulp.

They're not beating Buffalo if Buffalo is playing for something in that game. Cincinnati might not lose another game this season. They can win the other two, finish 9-8, and hope a couple of other teams crash and burn (like the Jets and Dolphins).

 

[crawhammer]

Corky"s... If they had ended the half without points after being given great field position by Kliffy, aka the Brandon Staley of NFC coaches, then I wonder if Bill would've considered starting Zappy to begin the 2nd half...

McCoy f*cked up both of those 4th down throws but Kingsbury is a clown not kicking the FG with 36 seconds left in the half. Go up 16-7 there, kick off, and watch Mac kneel down. Then he doubles down on his stupidity by going for it on 4th-6 from the NWE 41 in tie game. Both of those decisions turned out to be killers. Of course the mindboggling fumble by Hopkins didn't help Arizona's cause. But I'll blame that on Kingsbury too, Arizona is the most undisciplined team in league, sign of a very poorly coached team.

 

[n6249c]

From what I have watched a decent amount of the OL's problem has been "Lazy" Trent showed up for the season. We'll get unlazy Trent next year because it's a contact year, playing for his last big contract.

Might be something else than motivation and effort affecting Brown.

Trent Brown claims he dropped 12 pounds with multiple-week illness

 

[n6249c]

Yes, of course. But do you want T Brown after the Cards game?

If he’s healthy, yes. But he hasn’t been healthy for weeks. Reportedly is recovering.

 

[captain stone]

McCoy f*cked up both of those 4th down throws but Kingsbury is a clown not kicking the FG with 36 seconds left in the half. Go up 16-7 there, kick off, and watch Mac kneel down. Then he doubles down on his stupidity by going for it on 4th-6 from the NWE 41 in tie game. Both of those decisions turned out to be killers. Of course the mindboggling fumble by Hopkins didn't help Arizona's cause. But I'll blame that on Kingsbury too, Arizona is the most undisciplined team in league, sign of a very poorly coached team.

I need to catch-up on the Hard Knocks episodes... This week oughta be fun...

 

[captain stone]

Might be something else than motivation and effort affecting Brown.

Trent Brown claims he dropped 12 pounds with multiple-week illness

Would anyone else even notice if the dude dropped 12 pounds?

 

[Tunescribe]

Corky"s... If they had ended the half without points after being given great field position by Kliffy, aka the Brandon Staley of NFC coaches, then I wonder if Bill would've considered starting Zappy to begin the 2nd half...

Please.

 

[1960Pats]

And the odds of getting that type guy via ANY means (draft or free agency)? There's a lot of zeros before that 1 in the percentage otherwise every team would have one. And that's EVEN if you tank and lose every game on purpose as the GMs that drafted Leaf, Bledsoe, George, Ware, etc, etc, etc found out - even "can't miss" franchise QBs...miss.

This another example of expectation management..."being in the mix for a Super Bowl every year" is simply not the God-given right of Patriots fans.

My expectations are that I don't think the Pats will be good for a while, but I don't mind. They banked enough wins for me.

One of the worst tank jobs I remember was by Indy in the last two games in 2009 when they gave up on an undefeated season to let the Jets get into the playoffs over the Steelers, who, like the Pats, gave PEDton fits. It might have worked if PEDton didn't throw a pick6 to end the SB. On the bright side it wasn't his normal one and done though. That was followed by Suck for Luck, which became Suck with Luck.

I seriously doubt that Bill would ever do it but I couldn't stomach seeing the Pats tank one game, let alone a season. Like Herm said, you play to win the game.

 

[1960Pats]

Well, getting off the general quarterback debate, if we're just focusing on Mac and the Patriots given the current state of the AFC, which is loaded with good teams with excellent quarterbacks (Kansas City, Buffalo, Cincinnati, Baltimore, LA Chargers). We may have to add Miami to this list with Tua, and by next season when Watson is back up to speed, I'm adding Cleveland. KAN, BUF, CIN and BAL alone are going to present a major obstacle for the rest of the conference in the foreseeable future. So unless Mac can elevate his play significantly, I don't see the Patriots competing with the upper class of the AFC.

When did Baltimore make a trade for a QB?

 

[1960Pats]

Jones's or Belichick's?

A - I don't think there's any way that Kraft lets Bill go.
B - I don't think there's any way that Bill lets Patricia go.
A+B=C - We're stuck with Patricia as long as Bill's here.

A+B+C=D - If he develops into a pro QB Jones will look for a new team.

 

[1960Pats]

Burrow also had the unbelievable luck of playing with Ja'Marr, whom he played with for 2 years at LSU. That kind of experience is invaluable in regards to chemistry/timing. It'd be like if we got Mac and Devonta Smith at close to the same time.

I don't follow college but isn't one of Jones' college WRs with the Pats?

In any case, what separates Burrow from Jones is talent, loads of it.

 

[Jim Beankie]

I don't follow college but isn't one of Jones' college WRs with the Pats?

In any case, what separates Burrow from Jones is talent, loads of it.

1) No. (Damien Harris did technically overlap while Mac was a frosh).

2) Yes, that talent's name is Ja'Marr. Comparing their rookie seasons, Burrow was 2-7-1 with worse stats down the line (except INT) than Mac. Add in Chase and all of a sudden he's Joe Cool. Take him away (like their 1st game against the Browns this year when they lost 32-13), and he starts looking way more average. Plus Burrow has average arm strength and tiny hands (that was a running joke but strangely valid concern to "experts" during the draft).

 

[signbabybrady]

Would anyone else even notice if the dude dropped 12 pounds?

I think we all noticed

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Would anyone else even notice if the dude dropped 12 pounds?

Brown could lose 12 lbs. by skipping lunch.

 

[Patsfan177a]

We get it. It’s everybody fault but Mac.

He's actually got a stronger arm than it looks. I went through a bunch of plays last night and he's deceptively strong:

This throw here traveled 20 yards in the air, and he didn't really even step into it:

View media item 43

Fantastic work Ian. 20 yds (60 ft) in .76 sec is an average velocity of 54 mph. They have radar clocked lots of QBs at the nfl combine. Josh Allen has the record as far as I can find (62 mph). Only 3 others have hit 60 mph. Baker Mayfield is one of those. With 54 being an average on this throw, and the combine velocities being measured at release, I think at least 2-3 mph faster at release than the average gives Mac 57 or 58 mph, which is on the high side. Justin Herbert at 55mph. Noodle arm my a**.
Interesting reading here;

Quarterback Ball Velocity at NFL Combine 2008-2023

The most respected source for NFL Draft info among NFL Fans, Media, and Scouts, plus accurate, up to date NFL Depth Charts, Practice Squads and Rosters.

www.ourlads.com

 

[Mike the Brit]

I agree on the lack of coordination. M Patricia did not chose the players, and Wynn's attitude is up to Wynn, Patricia is not there to baby sit him. If a professional football player has a bad attitude, commonly it is on the player. Wynn is only hurting his 2023 FA value. Having said that, unless Brown is better against the Raiders (over his illness) I might try Wynn at left tackle.

It's the coach's job to get the best out of his players. Of course, that doesn't mean "baby sitting". These are professional football players. And there are some players you can't reach for whatever reason. But it's clearly not just Wynn (whom Reiss described as being friendly and approachable at one time). What about putting Bourne into the doghouse? I can't say what is going on, of course, but I do know that Dante got the most out of his linemen by coaching them hard but giving them respect and (as he himself said) love.