Game Day Thread Official Post Game Thread- Pats beat Arizona

[Patsfanin Philly]

They barely beat a Cardinals team who was bad to begin with and then lost their QB three plays into the game.

Uche play was been a pleasant suprize. But yeah, Chandler Jones versus Conor McDermott will be ugly!

Visions of Max Lane v Reggie White..........

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Yep, and he can run that route from the backfield, next to a RB so the run/pass option is still viable... Too bad that very first pass from scrimmage failed, because JonNo was open for a nice little gain but Corky ****ed-up the throw...

Where does this Corky come from? it's hard to have an intelligent back and forth with you when you start saying things like that.

 

[WhatJustHappened]

Michael Mccorkle Jones

 

[Toofy]

While I don't agree with both of you about Burrow (he's been good under pressure, has also wilted under pressure, too early to earn the name Joe Cool), I do agree with your assessment of Mac.

That being said, stud QBs are very rare in the NFL. You have to win with who brought you, you can't sit around waiting for a Mahomes, Allen, Herbert. There are 3 top guys in the NFL right now. Burrow is very good and he's on the next tier. Not there yet, IMO. I worry about him a bit after seeing him in the playoffs last year; I thought his team carried him. Regardless, not every team can take the best QB in the draft.

Most teams have to win with second tier QBs or even 3rd tier. Mac has to be much better for us to ever reach a Super Bowl, BUT he doesn't have to be Herbert or even Joe Burrow.

I look around and this idea of us waiting for a stud doesn't seem realistic or even probable.

Totally agree . 50% of Superbowl wins are by game managers . So if Mac can be that we can possibly win 1 Superbowl in a decade while being in postseason for another 4-5 times.

 

[SVN]

Not all on him; but remember that it was his (& likely Bill's too). idea to switch Brown & Wynn... So in making one position (the more important one, admittedly) marginally better, and less so as the season progresses, he'e made the other a complete disaster.

Most of us would more likely than not agree that we would've been better-off starting the season with Wynn - Strange - Andrews - Onwenu - Brown
and hoping that Wynn & Strange learn to use their athleticism & technique to overcome their lack of girth... Couldn't have been any worse than what we've been witnessing for practically the entire season....

True but experienced players like brown commit stupid penalties like cut blocks. even the best line up is screwing up big time in critical moments.

 

[SVN]

 

[captain stone]

I could not for the life of me understand this sequence:

- Rham hurts his ankle and leaves the game.
- Rham returns to the game a while later on an iffy ankle.
- As soon as Rham returns, with an iffy ankle, 4 of the next 5 plays are screens, 3 of which go to him, on an iffy ankle.

Take a wild guess how many of those screens worked out in that sequence (spoiler: zero).

Yep; absolutely infuriating.

 

[captain stone]

Where does this Corky come from? it's hard to have an intelligent back and forth with you when you start saying things like that.

His middle name is McCorkle... I also use the Omissioner's middle name of Stokoe.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

This was indeed on Thornton though. And, I'm not sure why the tweeter should be listened to at all. Seems to think Tyquan is a TE

I wonder why TT lined up in the slot rather than outside while Bourne lined up outside
I thought switching these two would make sense

 

[PatsFan2]

His wrists measure just over 6”. Pretty much unheard of.

Tyquan Thornton responds to ‘skinny wrist’ criticism from NFL Draft

Apparently, Thornton had the smallest wrists in the 2022 NFL Draft.

www.masslive.com

His initials should be TTT Thin Tyquan Thornton. Q

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

While I don't agree with both of you about Burrow (he's been good under pressure, has also wilted under pressure, too early to earn the name Joe Cool), I do agree with your assessment of Mac.

That being said, stud QBs are very rare in the NFL. You have to win with who brought you, you can't sit around waiting for a Mahomes, Allen, Herbert. There are 3 top guys in the NFL right now. Burrow is very good and he's on the next tier. Not there yet, IMO. I worry about him a bit after seeing him in the playoffs last year; I thought his team carried him. Regardless, not every team can take the best QB in the draft.

Most teams have to win with second tier QBs or even 3rd tier. Mac has to be much better for us to ever reach a Super Bowl, BUT he doesn't have to be Herbert or even Joe Burrow.

I look around and this idea of us waiting for a stud doesn't seem realistic or even probable.

I like your rational posts
I admit finding someone like Allen or mahomes is tough especially picking outside the top 10
Despite this I would like to see us taking shots at late rd prospects we like and who are bringing the physical tools with them, those are projects I know but if the tools are there (size, arm strength) you can take a shot
I don’t like the undersized murray‘s as a qb

 

[Lagaffe_07]

50% of Superbowl wins are by game managers

Which SB win in the last in the last 30 years has been won by a game manager for you? Just curious.

 

[PScottman]

Despite this I would like to see us taking shots at late rd prospects we like and who are bringing the physical tools with them, those are projects I know but if the tools are there (size, arm strength) you can take a shot

They have taken shots on mid-round QBs pretty consistently, including just last year with Zappe. Similar to every other team in the league however, most have turned out to be backups to spot starters or of similar pedigree to Jones' "projected" (worthless word I know but the only one that works) end state of middle of the road mid tier starter when everything else is solid around him. (And yes I know they've also drafted total flame outs...every team has - because the VAST majority of selected QBs DONT make it in the NFL)

So here's the conundrum - expend picks to find the "next" QB or use those picks and free agent money to upgrade the things to make the one you have at least able to meet whatever potential he has? Both approaches are fraught with unknowns and possible (in fact likely) danger because it's all a crap shoot.

Example - next draft...there's another similar QB to Mac and a 1st round rated OT in the first round when the Pats pick...what do you choose given the current circumstances? Both could be what is drafted or flame out or be "okay". Which road leads to success...where's that crystal ball? The what ifs are endless.

Frankly right now I'd probably take the OT. Mac isn't a superstar...never will be by my thoughts, but when he's surrounded by a better, more consistent OL he shows "enough" (another useless word, but whatever).

No huge issues with another 4th round type QB next year, but would rather another need to make the rest of the team better. Same with free agency or trade...an OT, a LB, a fatty DL...something that can plug a hole in other areas that might take some of the pressure off the offense as a whole and the QB circumstantially.

 

[PScottman]

Which SB win in the last in the last 30 years has been won by a game manager for you? Just curious.

Last year...Stafford. He was much less the risk taker, gunslinger as he was in his earlier career. He's definitively not the "top tier" QB that's in the hunt every year type QB that the original post made the comparison to.

Some others: Phil Simms. Jim McMahon. Doug Williams. Jeff Hostetler. Mark Rypien. Trent Dilfer. Rich Gannon. Eli Manning. Joe Flacco. Nick Foles. None of those guys was a top three or four QBs in the league over their entire career that need much less of a complete team around them and get to the playoffs mostly on the backs of their own talent year in and year out.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

The job of the OC and QB coach is to get Mac to improve- not regress.

Agreed.

Last year Mac threw 146 PA passes, completed 77% for 1300yds w 6TDS/3INTs for a 108 passer rating.

Yes and lost 5 of the last 6 games including a very embarrassing playoff loss. I believe Mac had to be pushed out of the nest to see if he could fly on his own (like the Pats did). So far Mac is not great on his own. The OC does not make Mac move awkwardly in the pocket or lock in on only 1 receiver. You wanted to keep Mac in the nest for 2 years? Maybe. I agree with the management decision to push Mac out of the nest even if he can't fly.

It is also their job to design and call plays which put their QB and the offense in the best possible position to succeed and maximize opportunties

I liked the quick outs to the WRs (lumped in as screens in the stats). Teams have been putting 8 and 9 players between the tackles so the Pats need 1) the speed to go wide which they drafted and 2) run more WR screens, jet sweeps, etc., to play/run outside the tackles. Glad we practiced that stuff against the Cards.

That ain't happening.

Change is tough. It takes awhile to implement and can look ugly. I think we needed to change. Maybe this version is the wrong way, but I am glad they tried to change.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

Last year...Stafford. He was much less the risk taker, gunslinger as he was in his earlier career. He's definitively not the "top tier" QB that's in the hunt every year type QB that the original post made the comparison to.

I disagree on Stafford. 4900 yds 41 TD 17 INT
In the regular season and 1200 yds 9 TD 3 INT in the post season is not game managing to me.

Some others: Phil Simms. Jim McMahon. Doug Williams. Jeff Hostetler. Mark Rypien. Trent Dilfer. Rich Gannon. Eli Manning. Joe Flacco. Nick Foles. None of those guys was a top three or four QBs in the league over their entire career that need much less of a complete team around them and get to the playoffs mostly on the backs of their own talent year in and year out.

I agree mostly with the rest. Gannon never won a SB by the way. Brad Johnson did that year.

For me it’s closer to 30% of the SB are won by game manning QB.

After that it depends of what you want. If you want to be in the mix every year to win the SB then Mac Jones in not your guy. If you want to be around .500 football every year. Sometimes be in the playoff, sometimes not and maybe win 1 if you have a loaded team then Mac is perfectly fine for that.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Brady has done this in the past under McDaniels when our run game was blown to hell.

The Cards put 8 or 9 guys in the box and flooded the middle. Going wide was the correct response like you say.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

The Cards put 8 or 9 guys in the box and flooded the middle. Going wide was the correct response like you say.

The combination between the OL play and the coaching staff not thrusting Mac fully throwing deep is the reason you see those type of game plans.

I don’t think it is a coincidence that Mac was top 3 in the league in ADOT before his injury and throwing 6 picks in 3 games. And being, after his injury, at the bottom of the league in ADOT and throwing 2 picks in 6 games.

It is clear to me that the coaching staff put the rein back on when he came back.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Later in the show Peyton asked Eli what the Pats should run for a play. Eli stuttered and stammered and had no idea. Amazing for a guy who played QB for so long.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Yep hated that play any decent QB makes a play there Mac made the OL look bad on probably their best pass Blocking play of the night. Mac seems nervous to take a passing shot in the EZ... when he gets in the RZ it's like he doesn't trust his arm.

Yes this seems right to me plus @upstater1 post. It is as much on Mac as the play calling.