Game Day Thread Official Post Game Thread- Pats beat Arizona

[ashley]

Cam's arm was washed by 2020. But I'm not sure that helps the overall argument for Mac. I'm just trying to add a little perspective to what we're getting out of the quarterback position this season.

The production definitely isn't there, but I'm not sure it's the product of Mac being so bad, just more on the O-line.

 

[Uptown]

 

[irishfanatic]

Only just finished watching the game. Nice to see we were able to bucc some of the recent inconsistencies and hammer out the W. An L would have really stuck in my craw. On to the Raiders and one game at a time. Above .500 in our division, not everyone can say that at this point.
GO PATS

 

[upstater1]

bingpot !!

you know we talked pre draft about mac and i wasn't high on him nor did i want the pats to draft him because i always had the feeling watching him that mac is never going to be elite. I believe with a strong supporting cast from OC; O-Line and WR he can play good to above average but i think his issues haven't really improved in areas where you can expect improvement despite the invorenment and situation the pats have put in him.

- pocket movement
- speed of his progressions
- arm strength (the screen passes thrown from mac yesterday look awful slow)

I value these characteristics are really valuable and we need to pursuit a qb who has this.

Also mac has an attitude issue imo. Look how often burrow is sacked, if he would have the same attitude he would be screaming to his o-line non-stop 24 hours.

While I don't agree with both of you about Burrow (he's been good under pressure, has also wilted under pressure, too early to earn the name Joe Cool), I do agree with your assessment of Mac.

That being said, stud QBs are very rare in the NFL. You have to win with who brought you, you can't sit around waiting for a Mahomes, Allen, Herbert. There are 3 top guys in the NFL right now. Burrow is very good and he's on the next tier. Not there yet, IMO. I worry about him a bit after seeing him in the playoffs last year; I thought his team carried him. Regardless, not every team can take the best QB in the draft.

Most teams have to win with second tier QBs or even 3rd tier. Mac has to be much better for us to ever reach a Super Bowl, BUT he doesn't have to be Herbert or even Joe Burrow.

I look around and this idea of us waiting for a stud doesn't seem realistic or even probable.

 

[upstater1]

nope, your agenda pro mac looks foolish. everyone can see his issues with pressure and happy feet and the lack of field vision/pocket movement.

This was indeed on Thornton though. And, I'm not sure why the tweeter should be listened to at all. Seems to think Tyquan is a TE

 

[NormZauchin]

The production definitely isn't there, but I'm not sure it's the product of Mac being so bad, just more on the O-line.

Interestingly, Mac is currently the number two quarterback in completion percentage in the NFL, while his yards per pass attempt is in the middle of the pack, at 14 or 15.

 

[captain stone]

I don’t know why we aren’t letting Jonu match up on a linebacker on a post.

Yep, and he can run that route from the backfield, next to a RB so the run/pass option is still viable... Too bad that very first pass from scrimmage failed, because JonNo was open for a nice little gain but Corky ****ed-up the throw...

 

[captain stone]

Game Observations: Nine Takeaways From the Patriots Huge Win Over the Cardinals on Monday Night

The Pats got a much-needed win in the desert on Monday night.

www.patriots.com

this is all not MP. not being able to block is one thing but offensive line penalties are committed way too much by our offense during critical times,

Not all on him; but remember that it was his (& likely Bill's too). idea to switch Brown & Wynn... So in making one position (the more important one, admittedly) marginally better, and less so as the season progresses, he'e made the other a complete disaster.

Most of us would more likely than not agree that we would've been better-off starting the season with Wynn - Strange - Andrews - Onwenu - Brown
and hoping that Wynn & Strange learn to use their athleticism & technique to overcome their lack of girth... Couldn't have been any worse than what we've been witnessing for practically the entire season....

 

[captain stone]

They scored twice from the red zone. One was a three yard run right after a 39 pass play to Henry. The other was a 14 yard run. One field goal was off a third down play where Jones connected with Thornton, but Thornton stupidly stepped out of bounds at the four yard line before he picked up the first down.

Come on! Blame this play on Jones. It was clearly Jones' fault that Thornton couldn't see the first down marker right in front of him.



You can spin it any way you want for your agenda against Jones. You just make yourself look foolish.

This dude doesn't even know that Thornton is a WR?

 

[Trolltolls]

Funny how people are hyping up the defense again. People fall for this every time...We beat the **** out of a backup QB and bad offense and when we play an offense with a pulse we get exposed.

 

[BennyBledsoe]

Cam also had a competent coordinator that could create proper spacing and timing on his plays.

 

[FCB02062]

the Patriots scored 20 points on offense vs the worst defense in the NFL. they were 3/11 on third down. they threw 57 screens and sideways passes. there's not much to be excited about on offense, and I'd temper the enthusiasm about the defense vs a backup quarterback.
yes, they did what they had to do; they beat a bad team in a must win situation. but they've done nothing offensively in a long time that would lead anyone to think they won't get absolutely curb stomped at buffalo or KC in a wild card game.
let's see if there's any improvement vs Oakland

 

[Rob0729]

In some respects, sure but you've been ignoring when Mac has been a part of the problem or slight regression. You've become very sensitive with respect. You accused me recently of misrepresenting a quote from Waldman when I specifically, quite specifically actually. Said it was bc of the certain topics at hand. Post snap processing to be exact I believe. If you bothered to actually read his stuff you'd know how indepth he goes with specific traits, strengths and weaknesses etc. For instance he had Mac as a Star when handling pressure. Speaks for itself, the highest category one can get from him. Committee for decision making which is about average.

So yes I'm well aware he was high on Mac but that's the headline. Details matter and some of the stuff he and I talked about predraft have shown themselves to be problematic.

I'm sorry but there's stuff you can isolate to look at how a player is performing individually. Its how scouts make a living.

Blaming everything on Patricia just sounds like a casual fan Rob. Play calling has been a problem for Herbert since he entered the league. It's been a work in progress in Buffalo all year. There's more than a few examples you can point to but its not a end all, be all excuse for Mac.

What about his inconsistencies with his release point that's been an issue since college?

Multiple TO worthy plays for half the season

Opening up late, late coming off his first read?

Deer in a headlights when faced with sudden pressure. Or lack of ID when faced with second level pressure.

Inconsistent stepping up or manipulating a pocket.

Honestly I could go on but I truthfully believe Mac is a good QB. Just not a special one. He's a lot better than he's shown this and obviously could be better with a better OL and OC but he's had his fair share of struggles that's soley on him.

This has been an organizational failure but sometimes you can see greatness or really F'n good through a ****tshow. Manning is perhaps the best example of that? His rookie season was trash but you walked away knowing hes going to be a problem and QB who could win SB's.

Recently Joe Brady Burrow got killed behind a horrendous OL but showed a ton of poise, didn't get rattled and showed he could manipulate/recreate a pocket at times.

Sometimes you can see some good in a cluster.

I definitely believe Mac can be better but at the same time he's exactly who some of us thought he was in college. Not a knock. He's a baker, not a chief as a smart man once said.

Funny, the Kurt Warner video that the anti-Mac crowd likes to quote, Warner praises Jones’ post snap processing from his rookie season.


One of the things I loved about Mac last year is that he's so good at processing information. Sometimes last year I thought he processed information too fast, meaning he got off certain reads too quickly because they hadn't developed," Warner told ESPN's Mike Reiss. "This year, I think they've kind of taken his superpower away because they've simplified everything."

Are Patriots failing Mac Jones? Kurt Warner, Dan Orlovsky share concerning takes

Former NFL quarterbacks Kurt Warner and Dan Orlovsky are on the same page regarding who deserves blame for Mac Jones' struggles this season -- and what the consequences may be.

sports.yahoo.com

And here is a video from Waldman breaking down a play from Jones where he said Jones “has always been excellent at pocket management” and then goes on how Jones processes all that is going on around him.



Here is audio where Waldman say Mac Jones’ ceiling is Peyton Manning.



And I provided a whole write up where Waldman compared Jones predraft to Peyton Manning. So I am wondering where the slow processor stuff is coming from. Here are some of the key points again from the article:

• Jones’ pocket presence might be the best of the quarterbacks in this class.
  
  • He understands how to preempt pressure with his movement.
  • He maneuvers with the pocket with timeliness and efficiency.
  • He will take big hits to deliver an accurate throw.
• Jones is more creative and quicker to adapt to unexpected events than he might be characterized.

The Rookie Scouting Portfolio (RSP)Matt Waldman’s RSP Film Room: QB Mac Jones (Alabama) with Mark Schofield

Mark Schofield and Matt Waldman examine several plays from Mac Jones’ portfolio of work and begin to wonder if the more apt comparison for Jones isn’t Peyton Manning. Another polarizing…

mattwaldmanrsp.com

These don’t look like things Waldman would say if he thought Jones had problems processing information post snap.

I never said Jones was special. I do think it is ironic that the things he did very well in his college years and last year are the things people kill him for the most.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Funny how people are hyping up the defense again. People fall for this every time...We beat the **** out of a backup QB and bad offense and when we play an offense with a pulse we get exposed.

I haven’t read the thread since earlier today, but I had a feeling this would happen.

The team just isn’t very good and their problems still exist on both sides of the ball. I love sacks and I’m glad Uche has stepped up and joined the 10 sack club with Judon which multiple players on BB teams have been allergic to. If they beat bad teams and pad their stats, so be it.

 

[Rob0729]

I think Jones was a half second late in throwing that ball. By time Thornton caught it, he didn't have room to turn upfield without going out of bounds. A fraction of a second sooner and Thornton would have scored

This is where Thornton caught the ball. He had plenty of room to turn up field. He just didn’t have a feel for the sidelines.




And he is the image of him stepping out of bounds. You will see he is about a yard or two farther down field from where he caught it and he had already made the turn and was running up field when he stepped out of bounds. He caught the ball outside the five yard line and went out of bounds with his back foot inside the five.

A more experienced WR would have not stepped out of bounds and probably would have scored the TD.

 

[Rob0729]

This dude doesn't even know that Thornton is a WR?

Just used that Tweet because it is the only tweet I found with any visuals of the play.

 

[Zuma]

 

[Jim Beankie]

You saw that throw to Hunter that Mac made last night, not sure that Cam could have ever made that throw in 2020.

C'mon - Cam def completed more difficult throws in 2020. Just 2 to a tightly covered Edelman in the Seahawks game to start. The 54.4 air yd throw to Edelman is further than anything Mac's completed in the NFL.

1:30 and 2:15:

 

[JMC00]

Pats are kind of a bogey team for Hopkins. Not that he has sucked but he hasn't had a single "big" game against them.

 

[Brotherblues]

I could not for the life of me understand this sequence:

- Rham hurts his ankle and leaves the game.
- Rham returns to the game a while later on an iffy ankle.
- As soon as Rham returns, with an iffy ankle, 4 of the next 5 plays are screens, 3 of which go to him, on an iffy ankle.

Take a wild guess how many of those screens worked out in that sequence (spoiler: zero).