Content Post Idle thoughts

[Tunescribe]

When Brady was at his best, there majority of his passes were thrown in a rhythm. Take his drop, and step up off his back leg and throw. On at least 4 of those sacks, I saw Mac, take his drop step up and......NOT throw the ball, and then after a second later get sacked. I wonder if people who get the all 22 can tell me if the first read was covered, or did Mac just miss the open man. In every game I watch the really good QB's throw balls to covered guys ALL the time and often get results. Have the Pats over reacted to the picks so that Mac is afraid to "just sling it". I hope not.

Dan Orlovsky did a detailed breakdown of the Pats passing game indicating that timing is WAY off -- receiver route-running is not in sync with Mac's drops: Mac too often has to hold the ball waiting for receivers to turn around when they should be breaking or looking the moment he sets to throw. That leads to things going haywire and suggests poor coordinating by THE OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR. But of course, people here who don't understand such things and believe the quarterback operates in a vacuum heap blame on Mac. Add OL woes to the mix and a performance like Sunday's -- where the kid STILL musters 250 yards on 85-percent completions amidst six sacks -- looks like a great achievement despite not reaching the end zone.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

Dan Orlovsky did a detailed breakdown of the Pats passing game indicating that timing is WAY off -- receiver route-running is not in sync with Mac's drops: Mac too often has to hold the ball waiting for receivers to turn around when they should be breaking or looking the moment he sets to throw. That leads to things going haywire and suggests poor coordinating by THE OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR. But of course, people here who don't understand such things and believe the quarterback operates in a vacuum heap blame on Mac. Add OL woes to the mix and a performance like Sunday's, where the kid STILL musters 250 yards on 85-percent completions amidst six sacks, looks like a great achievement despite not reaching the end zone.

There is a recent article indicating that Nick Caley is in the running for offensive coordinator next year. Why wait? Let MP focus on the OL and see if Caley can help the offense. It can't be worse than what we have now. If it doesn't work bring in BOB next year.

 

[Tunescribe]

There is a recent article indicating that Nick Caley is in the running for offensive coordinator next year. Why wait? Let MP focus on the OL and see if Caley can help the offense. It can't be worse than what we have now. If it doesn't work bring in BOB next year.

I think it's too late for a switch like that to show any improvement. The type of infrastructure overhaul needed can only be done through the offseason and training camp. Patricia and Judge were in over their heads from the very start and that's BB's fault. The problems now are compounded by injuries to the OL which has been poorly coached all along.

Maybe they can right the offense next offseason; IMO this has been BB's worst coaching effort in 23 years. The one bright spot has been what Mayo and SB are doing with the defense, but then they've been helped facing some pretty poor offenses so far.

 

[Pats2000]

Mac isn't under center more because he needs to improve significantly at post snap reads. After his first progression he struggles at reconciling where the defense was, now is, and where they are going as he's leading them with his eyes.

That's what I've been saying, they don't want his back to the defense. They want him to have as much time to see the field as possible

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Interesting take by Bedard, in the first of his breakdowns. He went over the 6 sacks and found that on 5 of them, the blame would go to others for the play's failure. Mostly Brown, Ferrentz and Cajuste for bad protection, but he damned multiple receivers like Henry who didn't have his head around when there WAS a chance to complete the pass. On the one he blamed Mac for was waiting on Herny and Stevenson to turn their heads and NOT going to Aghular or Bourne who were open on the other side. Then he backs HIS interpretation of the data with film.

BTW- I happened to notice after reading a story about Fields' shoulder separation. I couldn't help notice that he had 1642 passing yards and was treated this year (or at least after the Pats game) as the top guy from his class and a budding superstar. Yet the much maligned Mac Jones who just as quickly had gone from being the next Brady, to 'who's next"; has 1384 yds in FOUR fewer games.

Now I'm not myopic. I understand how Fields is a dynamic run threat, but the dude still can't pass in those critical moments. And when the greatest ability is your availability , his latest injury should be a cautionary tale to those teams that are willing to live or die on the back of a dual threat QB. I see a guy like Allen being the exception to the rule just because he's so damned big. When he's takes of he's going to be bigger than 90% of the guys trying to tackle him in the 2nd level. I worry about the poor 180lb DBs trying to bring him down. IIRC Jackson has only finished the season in 3 of his 5 years, and the 5th one isn't over yet for the one playoff win QB.
.

I posted a link in my thread and went over each. I tend to lean on the side that sacks and some pressure fall more on the QB but theres usually some gray area. He had his fair share of blame in a lot of them. OL is the biggest problem we have but he's not helping them or himself with some of these dropbacks and plays.

Footwork doesn't get him in good positions and he's not the quickest cat back there. That's been something that's been killing me. He has to operate a lot faster overall. He had a good share of blame on 3-4 of the sacks imo. Again there's a link in my thread that I can't find on my phone rn and I'm at work.

Also I have to believe his release and upper half was on focus with Tom House this past offseason but his mechanics are still all over the place. No connection between upper and lower. Feet still touch on occasion on his dropbacks. Like I mentioned above he's too slow in his bottom half for me. Talked about his release fluctuating between 12-2.

I just don't see a lot of confidence there and that last injury didn't help at all.

That said OL > Mac in terms of problems. That group has been so disappointing.

 

[The Brandon Five]

If it wasn't for the defense the Patriots never would have won a game. You can't beat good teams with FGs. I'm gonna get an ulcer from this season.

How about with missed FGs?

 

[Tunescribe]

There is a recent article indicating that Nick Caley is in the running for offensive coordinator next year. Why wait? Let MP focus on the OL and see if Caley can help the offense. It can't be worse than what we have now. If it doesn't work bring in BOB next year.

I'll add BOB would have been the PERFECT choice. If he was running things the offense would've had a seamless transition from last year and on top of that they'd have a dedicated OL coach, likely someone with solid experience. The more I think about how this coaching fiasco unfolded the angrier I get. The only possible caveat might be that BB exhausted all options before settling on Patricia and Judge, but it's hard to believe there wasn't anyone versed in McDaniels' system to take the reins. I don't know enough about Caley but if he learned sufficiently under McDaniels to retain the system/playbook he might've been preferable.

 

[Tunescribe]

I posted a link in my thread and went over each. I tend to lean on the side that sacks and some pressure fall more on the QB but theres usually some gray area. He had his fair share of blame in a lot of them. OL is the biggest problem we have but he's not helping them or himself with some of these dropbacks and plays.

Footwork doesn't get him in good positions and he's not the quickest cat back there. That's been something that's been killing me. He has to operate a lot faster overall. He had a good share of blame on 3-4 of the sacks imo. Again there's a link in my thread that I can't find on my phone rn and I'm at work.

Also I have to believe his release and upper half was on focus with Tom House this past offseason but his mechanics are still all over the place. No connection between upper and lower. Feet still touch on occasion on his dropbacks. Like I mentioned above he's too slow in his bottom half for me. Talked about his release fluctuating between 12-2.

I just don't see a lot of confidence there and that last injury didn't help at all.

That said OL > Mac in terms of problems. That group has been so disappointing.

Did you see Dan Orlovsky's conclusion re. timing issues? Please see my post No. 21.

 

[Soliel]

I love a good old defense game. I’m never bothered by if we win by one point or 58-3. Don’t matter much. It’s a win and I’ll take it. Thanks Ken.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Did you see Dan Orlovsky's conclusion re. timing issues? Please see my post No. 21.

Yes but you can't just point to 5 minute clip of Orlovsky and think that's a silver bullet? Orlovsky is a smart dude but talks to talk and has embarrassed himself a few times as well (as an analyst) So I just don't take it as the gospel. I think most have seen it and it's a good clip but just a clip.

I also watch film (when i can) and obviously like having my own opinion. I'm definitely not disagreeing with Dan or think I'm smarter than him. I just think blaming everything on Matty P is placing too much blame there.

Look he's had his struggles and I'd personally replace him with 15 names off the top of my head in 10 seconds but just being objective hes not that bad. RZ has been putrid at tines and there's been some predictable calls but honestly look around the league. Almost everyone wants there OC or play caller gone. LAC, LAR, Ari, I've even heard Buffalo fans complain recently. Again though Matty could be upgraded I just think he's #3 on the short list.

OL by a good gap. Mac and OC.

I looked at those sacks for example and yes the OL allowed some pressure for sure. Too often Mac just isn't in position to even ground the ball to move on to the next play or try to hit a Rham or Henry for a bang bang play we see every Sunday. Anything save an INT is better than a sack which just kills drives. 75% of the time drives die when they're taken. Like one in particular you could feel a 2nd level player coming and he didn't seem to sense it all. Another where he can obviously see & feel the rush coming from the outside but shows 0 urgency at the top of his drop to help step up.

I get it, tough plays but this is the NFL. I don't care about being negative or positive. Far too many get caught up in that. I'm concerned with being objective / honest.

Right now we have a bottom 5 - 10 offense in the league. Independent of the play calling/OL its not hard to say Mac could be playing better imo. I don't think that's a stretch at all. He's not the reason we're struggling but a big part of it. And I'm not about starting a list of names to take over for MP & JJ too.

 

[Pats2000]

Did you see Dan Orlovsky's conclusion re. timing issues? Please see my post No. 21.

There may be timing issues, but it's not just timing. There are plenty of plays that were on time. Mac's mechanics suck, and he's not getting better. He also isn't reading the field and is locking into one side a lot. The Oline has it's issues, but Mac isn't doing them any favors either.

 

[Tunescribe]

There may be timing issues, but it's not just timing. There are plenty of plays that were on time. Mac's mechanics suck, and he's not getting better. He also isn't reading the field and is locking into one side a lot. The Oline has it's issues, but Mac isn't doing them any favors either.

It's hard to tell where one thing ends and the other begins when attempting to define a problem. In Mac's case I refer back to last season when he performed much better and consider what has changed since. Mac hasn't regressed in a vacuum. I see a new system/new playbook/poor coaching as primary culprits, OL problems second and Mac himself a distant third. It's hard to have perfect mechanics when OL protection continually breaks down, ditto for seeing the whole field when timing is off and receivers aren't on the same page

 

[borg]

I for one was thoroughly entertained
You just knew something was gonna give during one of the 17 punts
------------------------------------
PS:
O line warming up pregame

 

[Sfpat]

Did you see Dan Orlovsky's conclusion re. timing issues? Please see my post No. 21.

Who does Orlovsky coach for?

 

[Steve102]

Dan Orlovsky did a detailed breakdown of the Pats passing game indicating that timing is WAY off -- receiver route-running is not in sync with Mac's drops: Mac too often has to hold the ball waiting for receivers to turn around when they should be breaking or looking the moment he sets to throw. That leads to things going haywire and suggests poor coordinating by THE OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR. But of course, people here who don't understand such things and believe the quarterback operates in a vacuum heap blame on Mac. Add OL woes to the mix and a performance like Sunday's -- where the kid STILL musters 250 yards on 85-percent completions amidst six sacks -- looks like a great achievement despite not reaching the end zone.

I think you're on the money. The timing is off. We don't see 1-2-3 throw. It's 1-2-3 hold. To me, that's either play design, calling too many vert packages or the timing between receiver cuts and the QB drop is off. Either way, it's coaching points that need to be improved on to get players in the right position to make the plays needed.

 

[rochrist]

There may be timing issues, but it's not just timing. There are plenty of plays that were on time. Mac's mechanics suck, and he's not getting better. He also isn't reading the field and is locking into one side a lot. The Oline has it's issues, but Mac isn't doing them any favors either.

Yeah, I was struck by the difference watching SF last night and how quickly JG was reading his receivers. The broadcast highlighted it really well a couple of times.

 

[Pats2000]

It's hard to tell where one thing ends and the other begins when attempting to define a problem. In Mac's case I refer back to last season when he performed much better and consider what has changed since. Mac hasn't regressed in a vacuum. I see a new system/new playbook/poor coaching as primary culprits, OL problems second and Mac himself a distant third. It's hard to have perfect mechanics when OL protection continually breaks down, ditto for seeing the whole field when timing is off and receivers aren't on the same page

I see it as a continuation of a problem, go back to the last 5 games of the season, outside of the Jags, who were just terrible. Mac really struggled and played poorly. This has been a continuation of that poor play.

 

[Tunescribe]

Yes but you can't just point to 5 minute clip of Orlovsky and think that's a silver bullet? Orlovsky is a smart dude but talks to talk and has embarrassed himself a few times as well (as an analyst) So I just don't take it as the gospel. I think most have seen it and it's a good clip but just a clip.

I also watch film (when i can) and obviously like having my own opinion. I'm definitely not disagreeing with Dan or think I'm smarter than him. I just think blaming everything on Matty P is placing too much blame there.

Look he's had his struggles and I'd personally replace him with 15 names off the top of my head in 10 seconds but just being objective hes not that bad. RZ has been putrid at tines and there's been some predictable calls but honestly look around the league. Almost everyone wants there OC or play caller gone. LAC, LAR, Ari, I've even heard Buffalo fans complain recently. Again though Matty could be upgraded I just think he's #3 on the short list.

OL by a good gap. Mac and OC.

I looked at those sacks for example and yes the OL allowed some pressure for sure. Too often Mac just isn't in position to even ground the ball to move on to the next play or try to hit a Rham or Henry for a bang bang play we see every Sunday. Anything save an INT is better than a sack which just kills drives. 75% of the time drives die when they're taken. Like one in particular you could feel a 2nd level player coming and he didn't seem to sense it all. Another where he can obviously see & feel the rush coming from the outside but shows 0 urgency at the top of his drop to help step up.

I get it, tough plays but this is the NFL. I don't care about being negative or positive. Far too many get caught up in that. I'm concerned with being objective / honest.

Right now we have a bottom 5 - 10 offense in the league. Independent of the play calling/OL its not hard to say Mac could be playing better imo. I don't think that's a stretch at all. He's not the reason we're struggling but a big part of it. And I'm not about starting a list of names to take over for MP & JJ too.

I think play calling might be the least of Patricia's OC shortcomings and even that has been pretty rough. He just doesn't have these guys working together well and a lot of talent is being wasted.

 

[Thelonious]

In the end, I think, 1) Matt P. is not up to the job, nor is Joe J,, 2) Therefore we cannot know whether Mac is up to the job: his coaches really don't give him a chance of showing what he can do.. This is usually interpreted as an excuse for Mac's very real, empirically demonstrable failings this year. I don't see it that way. I think it is equally likely that once Mac has a decent set of coaches, we might discover that he really isn't a quality starting NFL qb., 3) It is nonsense to ignore that Zappe really has clearly outplayed Mac this year. Was it a reflection of circumstance or a reflection of the fact that Zappe really might be the better quarterback? I think it really might be the latter, and so I think it has been a mistake not to give Zappe a more complete look. I suspect, and expect, that our record will in two or three weeks be bad enough that it will be reasonable to give Zappe a full trial, given that at that point it will be clear (if it is not already) that the Pats are not a team with ANY chance of advancing beyond the first round, if that. Find out about Mac. Then, when it is obvious we have no real shot at doing anything in the playoffs, give Zappe a (legit) shot.

This year is 100% about next year, and it has been all along.

 

[Tunescribe]

I see it as a continuation of a problem, go back to the last 5 games of the season, outside of the Jags, who were just terrible. Mac really struggled and played poorly. This has been a continuation of that poor play.

The Buffalo game at home was his only real stinker in that stretch. He also could've played better vs. Indy but I wouldn't say he "really struggled and played poorly" in those five games overall. The defense was more of a culprit in the losses.