Pats have engaged in TRADE TALKS for Isaiah Wynn

[Ring 6]

I think you overrate him

Hes missed 1/2 his games here. He's not reliable and his play on the field was inconsistent last year.

Because he has talent and plays a premium position he has value.

If he plays like 2020 they would be happy.

If he has another 2018, 2019 and a 2021 they wont

Injuries happen. Tearing his Achilles in his rookie season is not an inherent inability to play.
He was fine in 2021. Would you like to review the 81 awful snaps the guy you want to replace him with played before not being allowed back on the field?

 

[Ring 6]

Missing OTAs shows a less-then-100% commitment to the team. Period. You called Brady out for it but won't for Wynn?

If Wynn- with his injury and performance issues last year, choses not to utilize every opportunity to immerse himself into a winning program that says something about his focus and commitment.

I didn’t call Brady out for missing OTAs. I said it was uncharacteristic for him and lends a lot of credibility to the fact he wasn’t all in IN CONJUNCTION WITH CONSPIRING WHTH A RIVAL AND PLAYING THE WORST STRETCH OF FOOTBALL OF HIS LIFE.
And my comments were directed at you using missing OTA as an indication he didn’t want to improve. There is no way on Earth a 5 year veg starting OL views OTA as their chance to improve.
How do you think an OL improves in an OTA?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Injuries happen. Tearing his Achilles in his rookie season is not an inherent inability to play.
He was fine in 2021. Would you like to review the 81 awful snaps the guy you want to replace him with played before not being allowed back on the field?

Who gives a **** about ability to play when he can't be counted on to consistently play?

...and we have no idea how he'll acclimate to RT.

I haven't committed to anyone to replace him.

What I have committed to is exploring any/all options to replace Wynn with a player who is serviceable and durable and a lower price point.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I didn’t call Brady out for missing OTAs.

Yea you did. FWIW I agreed with you.

And my comments were directed at you using missing OTA as an indication he didn’t want to improve. There is no way on Earth a 5 year veg starting OL views OTA as their chance to improve.
How do you think an OL improves in an OTA?

Head start on a new scheme. Get familiar with new teammates, coaches. Maybe there is a technique thing coaches identified w/ him he could work on. Maybe he comes in behind on conditioning.

Wynn was borderline adequate last year. It's on him to put himself in the position to be as good as he can and on his coaches to identify areas of improvement. OTAs are part of that process.

 

[Ring 6]

Who gives a **** about ability to play when he can't be counted on to consistently play?

...and we have no idea how he'll acclimate to RT.

I haven't committed to anyone to replace him.

What I have committed to is exploring any/all options to replace Wynn with a player who is serviceable and durable and a lower price point.

Huh?
A torn Achilles is not a chronic injury, it’s bad luck.
Since then he played 8,10 and 16 games roughly 3/4s. So of course his injury history is not ideal but none of it is chronic. He is no more likely to get injured this year than anyone else at his position.

The Patriots have committed to their current roster. If you dump Wynn you get Cajuste at RT. Cajuste sucks. Moving Onwenu out and Ferentz to G weakens both spots.
Wynn is far and away the best option. He is probably the 2nd best OL on the team.
Dumping him because you don’t like him and having the QB get sacked 5 time a game doesn’t help anyone.

 

[Ring 6]

Yea you did. FWIW I agreed with you.

Head start on a new scheme. Get familiar with new teammates, coaches. Maybe there is a technique thing coaches identified w/ him he could work on. Maybe he comes in behind on conditioning.

Wynn was borderline adequate last year. It's on him to put himself in the position to be as good as he can and on his coaches to identify areas of improvement. OTAs are part of that process.

No I didn’t. I did exactly what I just wrote.
I said nothing at the time, or since until I learned he was conspiring with a division rival. And only then as an example of how he had changed. I could give no ****s about him being at OTA unless he always did until tampered with and we are discussing tampering

Dude, it’s 2 days of no contact. Give it up.

You have no idea what he is doing to improve himself. Thise 2 meaningless days tell nothing, they just give you something to gripe about.
He grade me out as an average LT last year. That is not border line competent
But it is milled ahead of all the other OT on the roster that are not Trent Brown. Should we trade him because he has missed 9 more games than Wynn in the last 3 years including 57% of his of a teams games the last 2 years.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Huh?
A torn Achilles is not a chronic injury, it’s bad luck.

Since then he played 8,10 and 16 games roughly 3/4s. So of course his injury history is not ideal but none of it is chronic. He is no more likely to get injured this year than anyone else at his position.

If a player has 4 different injuries over 4 years it means he can't stay on the field consistency. Call it bad luck. Call it genetics. Call it whatever. It doesn't matter.

The Patriots have committed to their current roster.

Really?

If you dump Wynn you get Cajuste at RT. Cajuste sucks. Moving Onwenu out and Ferentz to G weakens both spots.

If you move Onwenu to RT and trade for a solid RG with a history of playing better you improve

Wynn is brand new to RT. We have no idea what will happen - if he plays.

Wynn is far and away the best option. He is probably the 2nd best OL on the team.
Dumping him because you don’t like him and having the QB get sacked 5 time a game doesn’t help anyone.

if you want to stick with what we have without exploring an opportunity to get players who are more durable then we disagree.

 

[RobertWeathers]

No I didn’t. I did exactly what I just wrote.
I said nothing at the time, or since until I learned he was conspiring with a division rival. And only then as an example of how he had changed. I could give no ****s about him being at OTA unless he always did until tampered with and we are discussing tampering

Dude, it’s 2 days of no contact. Give it up.

You have no idea what he is doing to improve himself. Thise 2 meaningless days tell nothing, they just give you something to gripe about.
He grade me out as an average LT last year. That is not border line competent
But it is milled ahead of all the other OT on the roster that are not Trent Brown. Should we trade him because he has missed 9 more games than Wynn in the last 3 years including 57% of his of a teams games the last 2 years.

I just told you what OTAs are about. They have them for a reason. You wanna disregard it go for it.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Amazing how posters are defending a guy who's found his way to IR 3 out of the 4 years he's been in the NFL and then missed the most important game of the Pats season in 2021. Take the pick and his horrible salary off the books which is guaranteed while his availability/level of play certainly is not.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

The OLine struggled to begin last year with Shaq Mason, they’re not short on talent this year, they’re short on execution.

How much of that was a function of onwenu being at guard to start last season?

Last year when they pulled onwenu out and put karras in, the running game improved exponentially, but was stuck because karras has a low floor.

The problem this year is both guards;

1.) Onwenu needs to move to right tackle. He is not a guard. But we need a competent guard to plug in at right guard his place. Auditions earlier in camp do not appear to have gone well.

2.) The other problem this year is cole “the” strange “pick” lacks nfl functional strength and anything resembling technique. The technique is coachable. He needs more reps. But the lack of strength takes a while to fix.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Not necessarily. They view him as an asset to trade.

You think they picked up a salary they consider a burden to trade for a guy who wint get them more than a 5th round pick? I don’t see that making sense. Beyond that Cajuste has been unavailable most of his career, I would rather see them keep their OL as deep as possible, it could become a disaster otherwise. I also don’t see how they benefit from getting a later round pick for next years draft this season. I’m far more interested in putting out as strong a roster as possible this season.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Amazing how posters are defending a guy who's found his way to IR 3 out of the 4 years he's been in the NFL and then missed the most important game of the Pats season in 2021. Take the pick and his horrible salary off the books which is guaranteed while his availability/level of play certainly is not.

I’m not seeing people defend Wynn as much as I am seeing people, like myself, saying that trading him now doesn’t make much sense. It would have made much more sense to trade him before the draft. Unless they know of someone they can upgrade with to spend that money on it doesn’t make sense to me.

 

[Brotherblues]

Moving Onwenu out and Ferentz to G weakens both spots.

That's the part that confuses me. Clearly at least one coach agrees with you and that's why Onwenu doesn't play Tackle anymore. It's just that every educated observer and evaluator has Onwenu as having been very good at RT whenever they've put him there. Plus he's young, affordable, and has all the measurables.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I’m not seeing people defend Wynn as much as I am seeing people, like myself, saying that trading him now doesn’t make much sense. It would have made much more sense to trade him before the draft. Unless they know of someone they can upgrade with to spend that money on it doesn’t make sense to me.

In the end, I'd be shocked if they actually traded him.

 

[RobertWeathers]

You think they picked up a salary they consider a burden to trade for a guy who wint get them more than a 5th round pick? I don’t see that making sense. Beyond that Cajuste has been unavailable most of his career, I would rather see them keep their OL as deep as possible, it could become a disaster otherwise. I also don’t see how they benefit from getting a later round pick for next years draft this season. I’m far more interested in putting out as strong a roster as possible this season.

I wouldn't say they considered him a burden but think he has value- here or somewhere else. Think of it as a franchise tag. If he plays 17 games and does well, great. If he is traded and get a player who is solid and plays 90% of the games that's ok as well.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I wouldn't say they considered him a burden but think he has value- here or somewhere else. Think of it as a franchise tag. If he plays 17 games and does well, great. If he is traded and get a player who is solid and plays 90% of the games that's ok as well.

As I said in an earlier post I could see them trading him if they got a player that could make them better this season, kind of like the Wynovich-Wilson trade, or if they have a guy targeted that they need his cap space to get, e.g… Beckham, but not if it’s a 5th round pick next year just to clear cap space off the books.

 

[RobertWeathers]

As I said in an earlier post I could see them trading him if they got a player that could make them better this season, kind of like the Wynovich-Wilson trade, or if they have a guy targeted that they need his cap space to get, e.g… Beckham, but not if it’s a 5th round pick next year just to clear cap space off the books.

...and I wouldn't rule out Mike moving to RT if a RG is avail they really like who has zone blocking experience.

 

[gobesmug]

A thought just occurred about Wynn, not sure if it's been brought up before.

Given that he is undersized as an OT, I wonder if that has been a factor in his injury woes.

In order to block rushers trying to gain an outside technique, it might be forcing him to strain his body outside of a natural position causing undue stress on his joints and muscles.

Playing on the inside of the line would eliminate that problem since he would be able to block more straight ahead instead of laterally on the outside.

 

[Wozzy]

How much of that was a function of onwenu being at guard to start last season?

Last year when they pulled onwenu out and put karras in, the running game improved exponentially, but was stuck because karras has a low floor.

The problem this year is both guards;

1.) Onwenu needs to move to right tackle. He is not a guard. But we need a competent guard to plug in at right guard his place. Auditions earlier in camp do not appear to have gone well.

2.) The other problem this year is cole “the” strange “pick” lacks nfl functional strength and anything resembling technique. The technique is coachable. He needs more reps. But the lack of strength takes a while to fix.

Last year the reason Karras improved the line was experience. He knew the line calls and like Andrews he was another coach out there on the field who could get guys lined up correctly and help define assignments. Execution…

Onwenu has shown he is only effective
on the right side, it’s a weird thing that many linemen suffer from… effective from one side but not the other. You learn to live with it. He can play RG or RT, that’s all the versatility they need from him and why I believe they moved Trent to LT… they wanted one guy on each side that could pave the road, a people mover, like a car rolling downhill in neutral with the E-Brake off.

Strange is a “problem,” according to who? He has been out there performing with the 1’s since OTA’s, he has shined in practice and preseason. There have been bumps along the way as with any rookie but he has been plug and play. Functional strength doesn’t make much sense either, guy repped 225 pounds 31 times at the combine, he’s as strong as king kong. Assuming health he’ll go down as another player people whined was a “reach” who ended up being one of the best players in his draft class.

This unit needs to execute better, they need to utilize more gap blocking also. I get the desire to zone block, but since they outlawed crack back blocks the zone has been less and less effective. Who cares what colleges are doing, they’re usually beating up on some small conference pushover anyway.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Wynn left practice again today. Please trade him Bill.