OT: Dolphins Owner Steven Ross Suspended, Picks Forfeited, For Tampering With Brady, Payton

[PatsWSB47]

Because your question was garbage!

It was based on a false premise like "do you still beat your wife?".


Yes you did.


This is a textbook example of making up!

Every point you are making is disclaimed by saying that it is just supposition.

Given you admit everything you are saying is made up, it's pretty natural to ask what motivates you to do so.

Clearly you have an agenda to push.

Either that, or you're a garden variety idiot.

Naive

 

[Ring 6]

Naive

The conspiracy theorist is calling people who request proof naive.
That is freaking hilarious.

 

[PatsWSB47]

Remember the "Your team cheats" site that most Pats fans embraced and used to combat the onslaught of righteous indignation from rival fan bases? Now just a few years later and, since Brady left not so coincidently that he's the devil and the pure as snow Patriots are the one shining moral light. So have it your way folks. Brady is the devil. Get out the torches and pitch forks. The Pats are the only team that hasn't tampered. Let's all sing a chorus of "We don't smoke Marijuana in Foxboro".

 

[Triumph]

Did the Patriots tamper with Antonio Brown? | The Tylt

Less than five hours after being released from the Oakland Raiders, wide receiver Antonio Brown signed with the New England Patriots

thetylt.com

Did the Patriots tamper with Antonio Brown?
Less than five hours after being released from the Oakland Raiders, wide receiver Antonio Brown signed with the New England Patriots—a team that has pursued him since March. Because of Antonio Brown's suspect behavior throughout his time with the Raiders, many feel the Pats played a hand in his release and should be investigated for tampering. However, the NFL is not pursuing any investigation. Plus, New England doesn't need to tamper to convince players to play for them.

Most teams will cover their tracks pretty well when tampering, but the Pats dirty laundry is out in the open thanks to Antonio Brown's antics. There is no way a sane human would fight that hard for a helmet with $30 million on the line, illegally wiretap their coach and post a fine letter on social media to criticize their boss. Brown obviously wanted to be released so he could go to the Patriots.
The signs are all there. The team already may have tampered to get LaGarrett Blount back on their team after being released by the Steelers in 2015. The Patriots have had a sordid history of cheating from Spygate to Deflategate, and working to get AB before he was actually available is not only within the realm of possibility, it's probable.

Was Antonio Brown’s Patriots Signing Part of an NFL Long Con for the Ages?

The All-Pro wide receiver’s move to New England sent shock waves across the league. It’s also prompting us to view his Raiders antics in an entirely different light.

www.theringer.com

Patriots Signing Part of an NFL Long Con for the Ages?​

After Brown was cut, it was widely joked that he would join the Patriots, due to their history of having outrageously good things happen to them and their reputation for signing talented players with controversial backgrounds to low-risk deals. I even joked about this in a story about Brown’s release! Still, it was stunning to see it happen, and happen so quickly. Too quickly, many believe. You’d think that Brown would have remained a free agent long enough to weigh offers from various teams, perhaps even visiting some that were interested in signing him. Apparently not! Five hours and two minutes passed between Adam Schefter’s tweet announcing Brown’s release and the tweet announcing the details of his new Patriots contract. He literally could not have flown from Oakland to Boston in that time. It all wrapped up too neatly, too easily, too expeditiously.

The Suspicious Pittsburgh-to–New England Pipeline​

On November 18, Pittsburgh cut him. On November 20, he signed with the Patriots. On November 23, he ran for 78 yards with two touchdowns in New England’s 34-9 rout of the Lions. On January 18, he dominated in the AFC championship game against the Colts, and on February 1 he led the Patriots in carries in their Super Bowl win over the Seahawks.
Ahead of that Super Bowl, Blount was bluntly asked whether he tried to get cut by the Steelers with the understanding that he could always sign with New England if things went south. He didn’t exactly deny the allegation. Charles Robinson of Yahoo Sports reported that Blount smiled, laughed, and said, “I didn’t know nothing,” when asked whether he knew that he would sign with the Pats if the Steelers cut him loose. Mike Florio of Pro Football Talk reported that Blount said “it doesn’t matter” when asked whether he had tried to get cut by the Steelers, and Ed Bouchette of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette laid out why it would be virtually impossible for the league to catch one of its teams tampering this way. “No one would know except the agent and the other team’s rep,” Bouchette wrote.
It was never proved that anything fishy happened between Blount and the Patriots. The NFL didn’t even investigate the potential tampering charges. But three years later, a similar situation unfolded. James Harrison, the onetime defensive player of the year who spent 14 of his 15 NFL seasons with Pittsburgh, fell out of the team’s plans in 2017 and grew increasingly frustrated with the franchise. He says he asked the team to cut him three times during that season, and his teammates made the case that he also tried to get cut via his actions, as Harrison skipped several practices, slept (and snored) through meetings, and didn’t join the rest of the Steelers on a trip to visit injured teammate Ryan Shazier in the hospital. On December 23, Harrison was finally cut by Pittsburgh; on December 26, Harrison signed with the Patriots, and went on to play in New England’s regular-season finale.
There weren’t any cries of collusion when Harrison signed with the Pats. However, this seems relevant because Harrison is still friends with Antonio Brown. At the end of the 2018 season, when Brown was feuding with the Pittsburgh coaching staff, the two even filmed a series of videos together, with Brown promising to give Harrison scoops on his fallout with the team.



I'm not posting this stuff to try and expose the Pats as cheaters. I've spent since 2007 defending them and I wont stop doing that. Every team tampers. Every team. So now Tom Brady gets involved with something that's been done league wide for as long as the tampering rule has been in place. Suddenly now everyone on this board that has had a hair across their azz has become sanctimonious and morally outraged. Tom's the debil.

If any word of this was true the NFL would have raked the Patriots over the coals and lowered the boom.

Plenty of NFL teams that the Patriots dominated have conspiracy theories dreamed up as the reason why they lost. Headsets going out. hotel fire alarms going off at night, wire tapping in the Patriots locker room. Some Nutty Dolphin fans think that BB purposely allowed Brady to speak to Ross so the NFL could trap him in tampering. Flores was a plant and they say that Brady left his phone complete so the NFL could use it as evidence sealing the Dolphins fate.

 

[PatsWSB47]

If any word of this was true the NFL would have raked the Patriots over the coals and lowered the boom.

Plenty of NFL teams that the Patriots dominated have conspiracy theories dreamed up as the reason why they lost. Headsets going out. hotel fire alarms going off at night, wire tapping in the Patriots locker room. Some Nutty Dolphin fans think that BB purposely allowed Brady to speak to Ross so the NFL could trap him in tampering. Flores was a plant and they say that Brady left his phone complete so the NFL could use it as evidence sealing the Dolphins fate.

I give in. The Pats are the one team in the NFL that hasn't ever tampered

 

[Bill Lee]

Naive

It'd be naive to take the bait and buy into your made-up that furthers your self-serving agenda.

 

[PatsWSB47]

It'd be naive to take the bait and buy into your made-up that furthers your self-serving agenda.

Tom Brady is the devil

 

[sb1]

One such comment is a claimed offer by Mr. Ross to pay Coach Flores $100,000 to lose games, as to which there are different recollections of the wording, timing and context. However phrased, such a comment was not intended or taken to be a serious offer.

Oh yeah it was a joke. Hilarious. I'm sure Ross and Flores got a huge laugh out of that conversation. /s

Flores was SO bribed to tank, there's no doubt about it at all. That's what the league is burying here. Imagine if Kraft or anyone associated with the Patriots did this.

 

[Guts]

Remember the "Your team cheats" site that most Pats fans embraced and used to combat the onslaught of righteous indignation from rival fan bases? Now just a few years later and, since Brady left not so coincidently that he's the devil and the pure as snow Patriots are the one shining moral light. So have it your way folks. Brady is the devil. Get out the torches and pitch forks. The Pats are the only team that hasn't tampered. Let's all sing a chorus of "We don't smoke Marijuana in Foxboro".

It's just Boston Fandom in general. They'll get over it once he retires.

 

[sb1]

So it was made in jest and not intended to be taken seriously... but Flores is to be commended for not accepting the bribe.

Perfectly legit. Nothing to see here.

 

[PatsWSB47]

If any word of this was true the NFL would have raked the Patriots over the coals and lowered the boom.

Plenty of NFL teams that the Patriots dominated have conspiracy theories dreamed up as the reason why they lost. Headsets going out. hotel fire alarms going off at night, wire tapping in the Patriots locker room. Some Nutty Dolphin fans think that BB purposely allowed Brady to speak to Ross so the NFL could trap him in tampering. Flores was a plant and they say that Brady left his phone complete so the NFL could use it as evidence sealing the Dolphins fate.

I was a little harsh with you. You did make a reasonable post but what I'm so frustrated about is everything is met with we're pure. Everone talks about tampering be widespread but hint that the Pats ever might have and its shut down immediately

 

[lancerman]

Folks defending Brady and dismissing his actions as harmless should engage in a simple exercise:

Ask yourself how you would perceive this situation - a player under contract with their current team engaging in specific, detailed, and ongoing contract discussions with a division rival over the course of 4-6+ months, beginning during training camp and continuing throughout the entirety of the regular and post season - if that player was Aaron Rodgers.

I'd be curious what thoughts and feelings such a scenario would evoke. Perhaps I'm wrong, but my sense is that Rodgers would be (rightfully) lambasted by nearly poster here, and if this hypothetical scenario had happened during the year 2015, for instance, I'd imagine there would be a frequent narrative along the lines of: "Can you imagine Brady doing THIS type of thing? Sleazy backdoor meetings on yachts? Throwing in the towel on his current team? No way! That's what sets him apart from Rodgers, that's what makes Brady the GOAT, that's the mentality, discipline, and outlook that makes him so good! Brady has character. Rodgers is an ego-driven diva who only cares about himself."

And I'd agree with that; I'd be one of the people saying those things because I think that's all true. If you have presented me with this situation as a hypothetical, before it happened, and asked me if Brady would be above doing this type of thing, I would have said "yes, he is". I'm disappointed that I was wrong, not because I feel personally wronged by Tom Brady, but because what he did was lousy.

Nobody would care because many people were hoping Rodgers left the Packers.

In reality nobody is going to care that an employee who asked an employer to give them a longterm commitment and didn’t get it was looking for jobs in his final year of his contract. Employers don’t care about you. You have an obligation to plan next steps for yourself and your family.

Oh and if it was the other way around and a Dolphin player did that and was talking with the Patriots… all of the people complaining about Brady now would be celebrating and laughing that the Dolphins blew it with the player.

 

[Ring 6]

"I'm the most miserable 8-0 quarterback in football".

That's a direct quote form the leader of the 2019 Patriots. The team captain. The one that everyone on the team looked up to, and believed in. That right there is proof that Brady gave up on the season, and worse gave up every player, coach, and anybody else involved with the Patriots. How kind of him to wait till after the trading deadline. BB could have gotten a bus full of picks for a malcontent that the entire team should have refused to play with.

“Don’t ask me, I’m just an employee here” 9/24/19 Tom
Brady, the guy who Miami had been tampering with since training camp telling him he should have ownership.

 

[Ring 6]

Remember the "Your team cheats" site that most Pats fans embraced and used to combat the onslaught of righteous indignation from rival fan bases? Now just a few years later and, since Brady left not so coincidently that he's the devil and the pure as snow Patriots are the one shining moral light. So have it your way folks. Brady is the devil. Get out the torches and pitch forks. The Pats are the only team that hasn't tampered. Let's all sing a chorus of "We don't smoke Marijuana in Foxboro".

Brady did what Brady did. You are trying to justify it.
Brady’s actions hurt the Patriots while he was a Patriot. I’m not good with that and I’m not sure why you are.

 

[crawhammer]

The proof?
Brady skipped off season workouts for the first time.
Brady sat out tons of practices for the first time.
Brady played the worst football of his career in the second half of the season.

Wrong! Brady starting skipping OTAs in 2018 and they won the Super Bowl... THE SUPER BOWL!
Sat out tons of practices? I'm sure you're exaggerating. I don't even remember this being a thing at the time.

Brady first half of season 2019: 14 TDs & 4 INTs
Brady second half of season 2019: 11 TDs & 4 INTs

Not much difference there.

The team started out the 2019 season 8-0!
They lost to Baltimore in the midst of Baltimore winning 12 games in a row. Baltimore had the best record in the NFL that season.
They lost to Kansas City who won their last 9 games including the Super Bowl.
They lost to Houston with Brady throwing for 326 yards and 3 TDs... Houston had 4 passing TDs and Watson had 140 passer rating.
They lost to Miami after Brady had given them a 4-point lead late in the fourth quarter. The defense couldn't stop Fitzpatrick who was 9 for 13 on the game-winning drive. And I'm still waiting for Bill to call a timeout in this game.
They lost to Tennessee with Tannehill having 72 passing yards... the defense was helpless trying to stop Derrick Henry.

Oh by the way the new Patriot Way is tanking in December & January:
2019: 2-4
2020: 2-3
2021: 2-4
Total: 6-11

Seems like a trend. And Brady wasn't there for the last two.

So yes, the PROOF that Brady's conversations with Miami effected the scoreboard or the team's winning percentage in 2019. Because when you really look at it, and you don't just seize upon a moment to ridicule the most important player in the history of the franchise, you'll see there is NO proof whatsoever. They lost to better teams, or in a game in which Brady played well, or in a game in which the defense collapsed in the end, or in a game in which they got steamrolled by a single running back. And on top of all that they tanked the end of the season just like 2020 with Cam and 2021 with Mac.

Brady hasn't quit on a season or even a single play in his entire career. No other player in the history of professional sports has exhibited the dedication and commitment to excellence like TB12.

 

[Ring 6]

Wrong! Brady starting skipping OTAs in 2018 and they won the Super Bowl... THE SUPER BOWL!
Sat out tons of practices? I'm sure you're exaggerating. I don't even remember this being a thing at the time.

Brady first half of season 2019: 14 TDs & 4 INTs
Brady second half of season 2019: 11 TDs & 4 INTs

Not much difference there.

The team started out the 2019 season 8-0!
They lost to Baltimore in the midst of Baltimore winning 12 games in a row. Baltimore had the best record in the NFL that season.
They lost to Kansas City who won their last 9 games including the Super Bowl.
They lost to Houston with Brady throwing for 326 yards and 3 TDs... Houston had 4 passing TDs and Watson had 140 passer rating.
They lost to Miami after Brady had given them a 4-point lead late in the fourth quarter. The defense couldn't stop Fitzpatrick who was 9 for 13 on the game-winning drive. And I'm still waiting for Bill to call a timeout in this game.
They lost to Tennessee with Tannehill having 72 passing yards... the defense was helpless trying to stop Derrick Henry.

Oh by the way the new Patriot Way is tanking in December & January:
2019: 2-4
2020: 2-3
2021: 2-4
Total: 6-11

Seems like a trend. And Brady wasn't there for the last two.

So yes, the PROOF that Brady's conversations with Miami effected the scoreboard or the team's winning percentage in 2019. Because when you really look at it, and you don't just seize upon a moment to ridicule the most important player in the history of the franchise, you'll see there is NO proof whatsoever. They lost to better teams, or in a game in which Brady played well, or in a game in which the defense collapsed in the end, or in a game in which they got steamrolled by a single running back. And on top of all that they tanked the end of the season just like 2020 with Cam and 2021 with Mac.

Brady hasn't quit on a season or even a single play in his entire career. No other player in the history of professional sports has exhibited the dedication and commitment to excellence like TB12.

Ok let me weed through your tears.
Over the last 8 games of 2019 Brady compared 55% of his passes and had a passer rating of something like 72. But sure the fact both his TD and Int numbers were low all year means he was the same. Jesus.

He missed practice every week, it happened, the fact you don’t remember I’d t really relevant.

They also lost to Miami because he threw a pick 6 and had a mediocre game.
Tennesse beat us with 72 passing yards because Brady threw a pick 6 and out up 13 points.

So your argument is that the patriots in December were just as good with Legarm Newton and a rookie as with Brady and you think that means it was the same Brady as before. Good one.

I understand you are emotionally attached and your feelings are hurt realizing what happened but it still happened. Brady was the greatest athlete I ever rooted for. Not caring so much and giving up in 2019 doesn’t change that but it doesn’t hurt my heart, he’s just a guy who plays football to me, not someone I need to attach moral superiority to in order to feel good about myself as his fan.

And you should go back and watch the 2019 tape. There were a number of plays he gave up on (remember the falling down to avoid the rusher and heaving it to no one plays) during that season. I originally chalk it (as well as his awful play in the second half of the season) to injury, but it appears it was not that.

 

[Ring 6]

Nobody would care because many people were hoping Rodgers left the Packers.

In reality nobody is going to care that an employee who asked an employer to give them a longterm commitment and didn’t get it was looking for jobs in his final year of his contract. Employers don’t care about you. You have an obligation to plan next steps for yourself and your family.

Oh and if it was the other way around and a Dolphin player did that and was talking with the Patriots… all of the people complaining about Brady now would be celebrating and laughing that the Dolphins blew it with the player.

Wrong, when you are under contract and the contract stipulates you are required to do what is in the best interest of your team, you do not under any circumstance have an obligation to conspire with a competitor. The contract and the league rules say you must wait until you are a free agent.
Unless you are a person who thinks your word and your commitment isn’t important.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

Brady hasn’t been on the practice field since this news broke. Another personal day for him today.
Tom Brady excused from Friday practice - ProFootballTalk

 

[crawhammer]

Over the last 8 games of 2019 Brady compared 55% of his passes and had a passer rating of something like 72. But sure the fact both his TD and Int numbers were low all year means he was the same. Jesus.

You said he played the worst football of his career in the second half of the season... his first and second half TD/INT numbers were comparable. Did you actually break down all of his second halves throughout his career? Seems to me you'd have to if you're going to make such a definitive statement.

He missed practice every week, it happened, the fact you don’t remember I’d t really relevant.

Was he nursing injuries? You're implying he skipped practices because he was eyeballing the next chapter of his career (in Miami). Which is ridiculous. I'm sure he missed practices because the team was managing his reps while he recovered from various injuries. Sort of like what is done for every player on every team for every season.

They also lost to Miami because he threw a pick 6 and had a mediocre game.

Did Brady give them the lead late in the fourth quarter or not? Yes he did. Did the defense fail to stop Fitzpatrick or not? Yes they failed. Did they not sit on 3 timeouts with a minute left in the first half of a tied game? Yes they did... and I'm still waiting for an explanation for this.

Tennesse beat us with 72 passing yards because Brady threw a pick 6 and out up 13 points.

The pick six happened from the NE1 with 15 seconds left in the game. It was merely salt in the wound. The story of that game was Derrick Henry's 182 rushing yards against the league's supposed top ranked defense.

And you should go back and watch the 2019 tape. There were a number of plays he gave up on (remember the falling down to avoid the rusher and heaving it to no one plays) during that season. I originally chalk it (as well as his awful play in the second half of the season) to injury, but it appears it was not that.

And you should go with your initial impression because it's a far more plausible explanation.

So your argument is that the patriots in December were just as good with Legarm Newton and a rookie as with Brady and you think that means it was the same Brady as before. Good one.

I'm pointing out a fact. The calendar turns to December and they suck for 3 years running.

I understand you are emotionally attached and your feelings are hurt realizing what happened but it still happened. Brady was the greatest athlete I ever rooted for. Not caring so much and giving up in 2019 doesn’t change that but it doesn’t hurt my heart, he’s just a guy who plays football to me, not someone I need to attach moral superiority to in order to feel good about myself as his fan.

I'm not hurt at all. This bothers me 0%. I don't think Brady's conversations with Miami were of any consequence whatsoever to the 2019 season, which is all that matters to me. He didn't even seriously entertain signing with Miami at that time... he signed with Tampa Bay after having had no serious contract negotiations with Miami. I don't know where you're going with the "moral superiority" bit but my appreciation for Brady has nothing to do with his morals. He's the greatest player of all-time who brought two decades of superiority on the field.

This situation is merely an opportunity for Brady's detractors, which shamefully is a portion of the Patriots fanbase after everything he did for the franchise, to ridicule him with fake outrage.

 

[Ring 6]

You said he played the worst football of his career in the second half of the season... his first and second half TD/INT numbers were comparable. Did you actually break down all of his second halves throughout his career? Seems to me you'd have to if you're going to make such a definitive statement.


Was he nursing injuries? You're implying he skipped practices because he was eyeballing the next chapter of his career (in Miami). Which is ridiculous. I'm sure he missed practices because the team was managing his reps while he recovered from various injuries. Sort of like what is done for every player on every team for every season.


Did Brady give them the lead late in the fourth quarter or not? Yes he did. Did the defense fail to stop Fitzpatrick or not? Yes they failed. Did they not sit on 3 timeouts with a minute left in the first half of a tied game? Yes they did... and I'm still waiting for an explanation for this.


The pick six happened from the NE1 with 15 seconds left in the game. It was merely salt in the wound. The story of that game was Derrick Henry's 182 rushing yards against the league's supposed top ranked defense.


And you should go with your initial impression because it's a far more plausible explanation.


I'm pointing out a fact. The calendar turns to December and they suck for 3 years running.


I'm not hurt at all. This bothers me 0%. I don't think Brady's conversations with Miami were of any consequence whatsoever to the 2019 season, which is all that matters to me. He didn't even seriously entertain signing with Miami at that time... he signed with Tampa Bay after having had no serious contract negotiations with Miami. I don't know where you're going with the "moral superiority" bit but my appreciation for Brady has nothing to do with his morals. He's the greatest player of all-time who brought two decades of superiority on the field.

This situation is merely an opportunity for Brady's detractors, which shamefully is a portion of the Patriots fanbase after everything he did for the franchise, to ridicule him with fake outrage.

He did play the worst football of his career. Td/int ratio is not the entirety of qb play.

Here are his last 8 games of 2019
163/295 55.2%
1730. 5.86 ypa
216 pass yards per game
10 td
4 int
Passer rating 78.21
Team lost 4 of 8
Scored 17 or less in 4 of 8

Feel free to show me an 8 game stretch ever where he was worse.
As I said, the worst football of his career.

I expect that Tom Brady wouldn’t throw a pick 6 and have his team in position to lose the game on a late drive against a 4-11 team. You seem to feel Brady’s career was about playing really close games against bad teams and leaving it to the defense to pull it out. Not sure what you’ve been watching.

Of course you are hurt and of course you are fighting to defend Tom Brady’s moral character. Otherwise you wouldn’t care. Like me you would say Brady is the GOAT, my favorite player ever, gave me as a fan way more than I ever expected but gave up on this team in 2019 and that’s a shame, but it’s who he is. Or who he became. Too many people had his ear and changed him from the gym rat, hardest working, team first, do whatever it takes to win guy, to a guy who “feelings” and “appreciation” and being coached like a diva mattered more to. It’s clear that he listened to the detractors, took offense to not being deified and lost his drive. His comments during that season make it obvious.

I don’t care really. He could have played left handed that season and he would still be miles and miles ahead of anyone else, but ignoring the truth is kinda silly and immature.