Patricia Vs Judge For Play Calling Duties?

[203Pat]

They did realize it that’s why he sat on the bench.

So they realized it after they signed him and had him take up a roster spot.

 

[SlowGettingUp]

My point was it was the coaching staff not realizing he wouldn't be a system fit here. He had success elsewhere so he wasn't a bad player just a bad fit.

How was the coaching staff supposed to intuit that he wouldn't have success in a more complicated scheme? All they had to go on was success in a simpler scheme - which incidentally is all they have to go on when drafting players.

AB gave every indication he was going to succeed here football-wise before he flamed-out. So basically it's a crapshoot whether a specific player will be able to adjust to the complexity.

At the end of the day the system was tweaked to optimize for Brady and McDaniels. Neither are here now, and a somewhat simpler system might now be optimal for who we have now.

I doubt they are throwing out the playbook here - perhaps just getting rid of some of the subtler option-route plays.

 

[Ring 6]

I mean, we heard BB say theyre streamlining and standardizing the offense. We have heard Bourne say the terminology is mostly changing...Id guess that its going to simplify things and not make them more complicated right? I dont think its a bad thing at all

Not the same thing. Do you think they have just dusted off the old playbook every year for the last 20 years? They consistently make changes, they consistently revisit and expand. And as he said was done with the defense a couple of years ago, they streamline the system. It’s nothing out of the ordinary at all. This discussion seemed to be suggesting that suddenly the Patriots realize their sight read system is a failure and they are trashing and/or that judge and Patricia are throwing out Belichicks offense and inventing a new one. Or that the coaches are idiots so they need to dumb down the offense so they understand it.
None of this stuff is remotely true.

 

[Ring 6]

So they realized it after they signed him and had him take up a roster spot.

How else would you expect them to realize it?

 

[venecol]

My point was it was the coaching staff not realizing he wouldn't be a system fit here. He had success elsewhere so he wasn't a bad player just a bad fit.

If anyone is to blame it's the GM for bringing in a guy that wasn't a fit. With all his experience bringing in vet receivers into his complicated system, he should've known better. Big miss by Bill.

 

[203Pat]

How was the coaching staff supposed to intuit that he wouldn't have success in a more complicated scheme? All they had to go on was success in a simpler scheme - which incidentally is all they have to go on when drafting players.

AB gave every indication he was going to succeed here football-wise before he flamed-out. So basically it's a crapshoot whether a specific player will be able to adjust to the complexity.

At the end of the day the system was tweaked to optimize for Brady and McDaniels. Neither are here now, and a somewhat simpler system might now be optimal for who we have now.

I doubt they are throwing out the playbook here - perhaps just getting rid of some of the subtler option-route plays.

It is their jobs to know what players will fit into their scheme. AB didn't flame out because he couldn't pick up the offense he flamed out because he couldn't control the off field stuff.

 

[203Pat]

How else would you expect them to realize it?

By doing their jobs and figuring out what player will fit into their system based on past offenses, physical skillset, mental capacity etc.

 

[Ring 6]

So they realized it after they signed him and had him take up a roster spot.

I mean you do realize that they went to the SB and Brady had his highest passing yard season as a patriot and second most TDs right?
Is this really a place to waste your whining time?

 

[Ring 6]

By doing their jobs and figuring out what player will fit into their system based on past offenses, physical skillset, mental capacity etc.

So they should be perfect?

 

[Ring 6]

By doing their jobs and figuring out what player will fit into their system based on past offenses, physical skillset, mental capacity etc.

I’m curious what do you do for a living?

 

[203Pat]

I mean you do realize that they went to the SB and Brady had his highest passing yard season as a patriot and second most TDs right?
Is this really a place to waste your whining time?

This is where it all goes back to. Someone brings up a player. Someone mentions why they think that player didn't work out. Then the "well rings!" retort comes out. Once again Andy you missed the point. The point was the coaching staff blew the evaluation on Chad Johnson. That is the point. Keep up.

 

[venecol]

It's pretty obvious Bill is dumbing down the offense for Parker, Thornton, Jonnu, Agholor, Strange, Strong, Montgomery, and Fat Matt and obviously Judge. I don't see anything wrong with that.

 

[203Pat]

I am not letting you pull me back in. I swear you do this on purpose.

 

[203Pat]

It's pretty obvious Bill is dumbing down the offense for Parker, Thornton, Jonnu, Agholor, Strange, Strong, Montgomery, and Fat Matt and obviously Judge. I don't see anything wrong with that.

I'm all for it. We have a young QB with an inexperienced play called and lots of new pieces on offense. I think streamlining anything they can to help the adjustment period is a great idea.

 

[All3Phases]

Not the same thing. Do you think they have just dusted off the old playbook every year for the last 20 years? They consistently make changes, they consistently revisit and expand. And as he said was done with the defense a couple of years ago, they streamline the system. It’s nothing out of the ordinary at all. This discussion seemed to be suggesting that suddenly the Patriots realize their sight read system is a failure and they are trashing and/or that judge and Patricia are throwing out Belichicks offense and inventing a new one. Or that the coaches are idiots so they need to dumb down the offense so they understand it.
None of this stuff is remotely true.

Didnt you just post this to me? "Why don’t you tell me what they are doing? You seem to think you can read minds and have adopted a belief that every speculation is fact."

Cant I just say the same thing to you? Mac has said theyre teaching the coaches things. I dont believe its a coincidence, I also dont think its make the coaches dumb. Theyre simply inexperienced, and streamlining the terminology, etc makes it easier for a unit to grasp it. Why didnt that happen when they went from Brady to Cam/Mac? Maybe because Josh was here?

 

[venecol]

I'm all for it. We have a young QB with an inexperienced play called and lots of new pieces on offense. I think streamlining anything they can to help the adjustment period is a great idea.

Agree. I think it's probably more for the coaches because there are so many intricacies in the playbook that there's no way they could learn in such a short time. Imagine the coaches saying something and being corrected by a player that's been here longer and is familiar w/ some of those intricacies that the new coaches aren't. It makes perfect sense to start over to make everyone start on the same concept (even if it's a simpler version of the old one), thus the streamlining lingo being used.

 

[captain stone]

Here's Cam on his time here:

If true then whatever version of Ehrhart-Perkins he used under Mike Shula in Carolina didn't translate in Foxborough... Maybe it resembled E-P 101 while the version he walked into here was closer to Doctorate-level...

 

[venecol]

Didnt you just post this to me? "Why don’t you tell me what they are doing? You seem to think you can read minds and have adopted a belief that every speculation is fact."

Cant I just say the same thing to you? Mac has said theyre teaching the coaches things. I dont believe its a coincidence, I also dont think its make the coaches dumb. Theyre simply inexperienced, and streamlining the terminology, etc makes it easier for a unit to grasp it. Why didnt that happen when they went from Brady to Cam/Mac? Maybe because Josh was here?

Yea, I forgot Mac said he's teaching Judge. Makes perfect sense to dumb it down for Judge so he doesn't look like an idiot.

 

[venecol]

Didnt you just post this to me? "Why don’t you tell me what they are doing? You seem to think you can read minds and have adopted a belief that every speculation is fact."

You have to forgive Andy because he only sees the world in black and white. There's no shades or grey in his simplistic view.

 

[1960Pats]

This is the easy answer. Both Patricia AND Judge failed miserably as HC's. But that has NO correlation to how they will be assistant coaches, The fact is that they WERE both excellent assistant coaches or they wouldn't have gotten an opportunity to be HC's in the first place.

But here's the thing that I think most fans aren't getting. Patricia time as a DC and on the defensive side of the ball, actually has prepared him for work on the offensive side of the ball. As a DC you HAVE to be well versed on offensive concepts of ALL the varied offenses that you may encounter. It's not like he isn't familiar with the Pats offense and offensive strategy. So I have ZERO worries about Patricia's transition to coach the OL (where his played in college) and coached briefly early in his Pats career.

Judge's history is more problematic as the excellent job he did as ST's coordinator doesn't necessarily translates to EITHER offense or defense. HOWEVER we don't no about what other offensive ties he had to the offense other than the year he also worked with the WR's. He clearly was involved with the offense while he was with the Giants. So at worst he's had 3 years experience dealing with the offensive side of the ball and a possible 8 more while he was with the Pats working with St's. Given that ST's isn't an all encompassing full time job, I can only assume he was doing something involved with the offense during those times.

So I don't think that Judge/Patiricia/Yates/Brown/Calley etc offensive staff is incongruent at all. I believe the offense will be well coached. However the job of offensive play caller will no be revealed publicly just as the job of defensive play caller has been over the last few years. Its a question that will be asked a million times over the next few month....and not answered.

But who cares. Only the results on the field matters.

I also don't think it matters what Patricia and Judge did as HCs on other teams. We need to wait and see how they do, just as we should do with new players.

My problem with the secrecy of the decisions being made though is that it leaves the players as the only ones to be criticized.