Belichick's record without Brady since the Brady era began

[Pats1971]

Bill needs really good Qbing just like every other HC. I am really happy he drafted Mac who is pretty much a clone of a young Brady.

Yep and we will see where Mac goes, because where this team goes is based a lot on that.

 

[Pats1971]

That's BS. You Bill Walsh would have gotten a QB who couldn't run the West Coast Offense and revamp his entire offense around him? No! Just like Belichick, he wouldn't draft or trade for or sign a QB who didn't fit his system. His system. The system is in place. Belichick was looking QB that fit his system, not get a QB and revamp his system around him.

And the reason why Belichick was so quick to move on from Bledsoe was that never fit his system. He never loved Bledsoe. Bledsoe was obviously forced on him. Bledsoe was not passed his prime. He actually had a pretty good season in 2002. His team sucked, but he didn't. He just never fit on Belichick's system.

And yes, this is a QB driven league. Of course you need a QB. I never said otherwise.

I hate to break it to you, but Bill did not invent the pats offense. lol Nor did he draft Brady for it. Brady was an after though and **** Rehbein was a lot of the reason brady was drafted, at no time was Bill going, ah yes I will wait till the 6th round and Grab the most perfect QB for my system. Here is the reality, that system? Fails completely without a good Qb like all systems do.

 

[Rob0729]

This thread is blowing up quick. LOL.

His record without Brady starting should start the moment he took over in 2000. Not after which it's convenient for some posters to skew the numbers.

I am not saying this is his record. His record is what his record is. I am just pointing out his record without Brady after Brady became the starter. I thought it was interesting. It doesn't change anything. Belichick is either the greatest head coach of all time or one of the top 2-3. No matter how you look at his record, that doesn't change that.

 

[amfootball]

I hate to break it to you, but Bill did not invent the pats offense. lol Nor did he draft Brady for it. Brady was an after though and **** Rehbein was a lot of the reason brady was drafted, at no time was Bill going, ah yes I will wait till the 6th round and Grab the most perfect QB for my system. Here is the reality, that system? Fails completely without a good Qb like all systems do.

Bill didn't have an offensive system if you think about it. He's a defensive coach. His entire coaching philosophy is based on that side of the ball. That is why he loathes QBs who turn it over.

 

[everlong]

 

[RobertWeathers]

So....you are saying that the teams built around Tom had way more success?

Thats not my point but if you want to conclude that that's fine. Anytime you play Tom Brady your team will improve.

Also, where are you getting 15-5? If we do your thing of throwing out all things that go against Bill they were 15-6 in 2008 and 2016.

My bad math 1-0, 11-5, 3-1 = 15-6

Actuall Bill did not inherite a 3-13 teams, the Browns 4 years prior to when Bill got there was a better record than it was under Bill with Cle.

Browns were 3-13 in 1990. He needed to rebuild an aging roster from a nice run in the 80s

The pats were 7-9 the year before Bill took over the pats. so when was the 3-13?

Pats were 8-8 in 1999 and on the downslope. He gutted the roster as much as he could.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Great question to consider -how many super bowls would Brady have won in NE if Bruce Arians were the HC, assuming the Patriots rosters were the same? I would say 2-3 tops.

 

[amfootball]

Great question to consider -how many super bowls would Brady have won in NE if Bruce Arians were the HC, assuming the Patriots rosters were the same? I would say 2-3 tops.

If Licht is the GM too? 5-6.

 

[Rob0729]

I hate to break it to you, but Bill did not invent the pats offense. lol Nor did he draft Brady for it. Brady was an after though and **** Rehbein was a lot of the reason brady was drafted, at no time was Bill going, ah yes I will wait till the 6th round and Grab the most perfect QB for my system. Here is the reality, that system? Fails completely without a good Qb like all systems do.

LOL! Next thing you are going say is made up people like Ray Perkins and Ron Ehrhart created the Patriots offense. Like they are real people. Dude, I know Belichick didn't invent the offense. Never said otherwise. But that offense won two Super Bowls in NY with Phil Simms and Jeff Hotsteller. But that is the system Belichick runs whether or not he created it.

And Brady was a sixth round pick. No one wanted Brady. Not one team. Six round picks are crap shoot picks. But I don't get what that has to do with anything.

And what is with good QB crap. Are you saying now that Belichick can win a Super Bowl with any good QB? Doesn't need to be Brady. Of course he needs a good QB.

 

[Rob0729]

Bill didn't have an offensive system if you think about it. He's a defensive coach. His entire coaching philosophy is based on that side of the ball. That is why he loathes QBs who turn it over.

That isn't true. He used the Perkins/Ehrhardt system back in Cleveland. Just because he was a defensive coach prior to being a head coach (which isn't 100% true because he was a receivers coach in Detroit, doesn't mean he wasn't married to an offensive system. He hired Charlie Weis specifically because he had a lot of experience in that offense.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Great question to consider -how many super bowls would Brady have won in NE if Bruce Arians were the HC, assuming the Patriots rosters were the same? I would say 2-3 tops.

The real question is how good of a coach do you think Ariens is?

Can he take his'n and beat your'n, and then he can turn around and take your'n and beat his'n?

 

[SHOWTIME15]

If Licht is the GM too? 5-6.

Licht sucks. He was nothing before Brady got there. One super bowl doesn't make him a genius GM.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

The real question is how good of a coach do you think Ariens?

Can take his'n and beat your'n, and then he can turn around and take your'n and beat his'n?

He is not a HOFer. I would say he's probably Pete Carroll-ish.

 

[Rob0729]

Great question to consider -how many super bowls would Brady have won in NE if Bruce Arians were the HC, assuming the Patriots rosters were the same? I would say 2-3 tops.

I didn't want to turn it into this argument.

I just thought these stats were a good alternative way to look at Belichick without Brady. Again, it isn't the only way. But I don't want to turn it into a Belichick vs. Brady argument again. That was never my point.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I didn't want to turn it into this argument.

I just thought these stats were a good alternative way to look at Belichick without Brady. Again, it isn't the only way. But I don't want to turn it into a Belichick vs. Brady argument again. That was never my point.

What did you think was going to happen, on this board?

 

[Rob0729]

What did you think was going to happen, on this board?

Unfortunately, apparently I wasn't thinking when I started this thread.

 

[Wozzy]

Bill brought championships to New England.

He drafted Brady.

Now he drafted Mac.

When all’s said and done he’ll have the best record in history. Haters can choke on it.

 

[sb1]

20 years from now after he's long retired nobody will care if BB is or isn't a sub .500 coach without Brady, just like they don't care that Noll is also a losing coach without Bradshaw or Walsh without Bradshaw.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

It started to die down but then the pats won a few games in a row so now we can go back to Bill made Brady and Brady would be brady Quinn without Bill as coach.

Sorry but this take died once Brady won last year. If the pats keep winning the only take left (which has always been the correct one) is that both of these guys are the best of their prospective professions and paired together formed the greatest dynasty we’ve ever seen.

 

[sb1]

So much of the discussion during the offseason and early this season was that Belichick has a losing record without Brady. But I just heard on Felger and Mazz (yeah, I know. I know. Why am I listening to them?), a emailer pointed out that Belichick has a winning record in games without Brady since Mo Lewis took out Bledsoe. I think that is a fair way of judging Belichick as a stand alone coach without Brady and not what he did 25 years ago.

So here we go:

2008 - 11-5 (I am counting the game Brady went down since he only played a series)
2018 - 3-1 (two games starting their third string QB)
2020 - 7-9
2021 - 7-4

Total: 28-19 or 59.6% winning percentage.

It isn't as good with Brady obviously, but it isn't all that bad. Odds are decent that that winning percentage will go up by the end of this year the way they are playing. And the only time he didn't win more games than he lost was last year with a mediocre QB and them rebuilding after the Brady era. And even then, they were only one game away from going .500.

Also, note all the seasons he played QBs he drafted, he has winning records.

I used to think like this too but really it's a moot point. Nobody really thinks Belichick is anything less than a great coach with or without Brady. I think this is all a reaction to Brady for many years not getting the credit he deserves for making this one of the greatest sports dynasties that we'll see in our lifetime - and the coach getting way too much of that credit. Players matter more than the coach.