Mac Jones & the offense: Signs of improvement?

[SHOWTIME15]

He throws an accurate ball, makes good decisions and can move in the pocket. That's a recipe for a long NFL career.

Sure he's not mobile, but neither was Brady or Jimmy G. That's not what the Patriots look for with this offense.

for pure pocket passers, everyone around them has to be good for the offense to work…

 

[Jim Beankie]

As a wise far east philosopher once said, don't waste another minute on your crying*... the best is ready to begin.



* If we lose to the Jets, all bets are off.

 

[Marko]

He's a turnover machine, I can't remember the last time Brady took a blindsided spear and fumbled a key possession. His INT was also his fault as he completely shanked a wide open receiver.

Seriously, you are comparing the play of a 5 game rookie to the greatest QB ever? Turnover machine? lol

and nobody said this before 2019.

lol, so Mcdaniels is only good because of Brady, but Leftwich has Brady, Brown, Evans, Godwin, Fournette and he is a genius

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

This could be more to do with either Jones having to throw the ball quicker because of the o-line not giving him enough time or just not in sync with his receivers yet because there is plenty of film of him hitting Alabama in stride and on target. When it comes to Jones' ability hitting an open receiver in stride, the difference between college and pros and the quality of receivers shouldn't affect whether Jones can make those throws. The pass protection can make a difference and it did here

But in fairness to Jones on that Agholor pass, the interior of the o-line failed and allowed three defenders to rush up the middle and it looks like Jones couldn't step into the throw because he had Cowboy players in his face and was immediately hit after he threw the ball. I think if he had better protection, he might have hit Agholor in stride. This particular play is on the o-line, not Jones.

In fact, I would point to this as a huge positive for Jones that he got rid of the ball before the defense got to him and made a positive play. Many rookie QBs would either dove to the ground to take the sack or just made a wild throw or scrambled out of the pocket and made a wild throw. You see this as Jones not being able to hit Agholor in stride, but I see it as Jones standing in the pocket under pressure and made the play even though he knew he was about to be crushed by three defenders. This was a very Brady-like throw.



I couldn't find the video of the Bolden pass. So I am not sure what the circumstance was.

I agree with most of this. This is why the pro game and college game are so different.

You could say it’s Brady-like to drop that ball into Algohor, but we remember those passes because they match up with this clip. There are also times when Brady hits a WR in stride for a touchdown. In fact, every QB will have variation. With Mac, if you look at each individual pass, you can say that, well, because of the rush or whatever, you can see why it came out like that, or you can give an example of another NFL qb who made a similar pass. But it’s when you have a 100-200 pass attempts you can look at the overall amount of big throws.

 

[Rob0729]

I agree with most of this. This is why the pro game and college game are so different.

You could say it’s Brady-like to drop that ball into Algohor, but we remember those passes because they match up with this clip. There are also times when Brady hits a WR in stride for a touchdown. In fact, every QB will have variation. With Mac, if you look at each individual pass, you can say that, well, because of the rush or whatever, you can see why it came out like that, or you can give an example of another NFL qb who made a similar pass. But it’s when you have a 100-200 pass attempts you can look at the overall amount of big throws.

Brady has hit receivers in stride on throws like this and he has underthrown the ball a bit too like Jones has done here. That was a tough throw to make with defenders in your face and not being able to step into the throw.

But you cannot use this throw as an example of Jones not being able to hit receivers in stride. He was throwing with two defenders in his face and one right behind them. It wasn't like he had a clean pocket and he just didn't have enough zip on the ball.

But you are the one who used individual plays to make a point. I am just showing how it isn't fair use this play against him.

You looked at this play as a weakness and I look at it as a strength. Rookies don't usually make plays like this. And Jones is consistently making plays with defenders coming down on top of him because of crappy o-line play.

This play is just an example of how he is trying to make magic happen with an awful o-line that doesn't give him time to make the big plays. If the offensive line in this case didn't allow a complete jailbreak from the Cowboys' defenders, maybe Jones steps into that pass and hits Agholor in stride and it is a TD. I blame the lack of big plays more on the o-line and the play calling than Jones. Jones showed on Sunday he can make big plays if given a chance. And a 27 yard pass is a big play even if it could have been more if Agholor was hit in stride.

 

[sb1]

I think if you're trying to make Mac look good with stats like this and then you come across the name Geno Smith then it's not as worth mentioning as you think it is.

 

[Rob0729]

I think if you're trying to make Mac look good with stats like this and then you come across the name Geno Smith then it's not as worth mentioning as you think it is.

Except that Jones is top 10 in all the categories that Daniels listed. Smith is only in one category. It makes it an outlier.

But six weeks into the career, stats don't mean a whole heck of a lot anyway from a historical perspective. Many QBs come out hot when they first start because teams don't have a book on them and when teams do get a book on the QB, the QB quickly fades into mediocrity (like Smith, Minshew, Darnold and a couple of others from Daniels' tweets). Jones doesn't look to be a QB who will fade when teams have a book on him since he seems to handle everything teams are throwing at him, but it could happen.

 

[captain stone]

...Fact is, this offense is hit or miss and a lot of miss. Its iffy. They are averaging like 19 ppg. You cannot win doing that. That will have to improve. The Qb will have to improve. Basically people want everything else to improve, but frankly this is pretty much what we always had. So so receivers, an oline that is good with the right kind of QB, decent run game. In fact, I will say that we have won superbowls with less than this on offense.

Don't think so.

 

[captain stone]

As n example, with 2.26 and 1pt lead, we really should be able to run the ball in a 2-3 min offense. He doesn't have to throw those slants resulting in pick six. But he is being asked to because we can't impose at the LOS and run the ball to finish the game.

Yeah that run on 1st/10 was poorly designed and poorly blocked... Sending both Jake Johnson and ****ing Thanksdad as pullers into the same hole ahead of Harris rather than simply having the Omen follow Jake directly into it? Stupid... Jake had no momentum at all, and ****ing Thanksdad is weak sauce even moving straight ahead, never mind laterally...

 

[Ian]

He's a turnover machine, I can't remember the last time Brady took a blindsided spear and fumbled a key possession. His INT was also his fault as he completely shanked a wide open receiver.

Wait...what?

"He's a turnover machine"...?

That's a little harsh, especially if you rewatch the play and realize he got drilled as he finished dropping back and completely planted. And the interception was a little off and went off Bourne's hands, it's not like he pulled a throw like some of the other rookies and threw it right to a defender he didn't see.

I can understand being pro-Brady and still rooting for him, I still do and definitely enjoy having a second rooting interest as a distraction if the Patriots aren't in it and the way that game went didn't bother me, it was a hard-fought game by both and the Patriots came up short...about as much as anyone could have hoped for.

But saying that about Mac given how well he's actually played in his first six games as a rookie is a little much.

LOL, what's going to happen when Brady retires and Mac is even better 2-3 years from now? Don't make me bookmark this and pull out this thread on you

 

[borg]

Wait...what?

"He's a turnover machine"...?

That's a little harsh, especially if you rewatch the play and realize he got drilled as he finished dropping back and completely planted. And the interception was a little off and went off Bourne's hands, it's not like he pulled a throw like some of the other rookies and threw it right to a defender he didn't see.

I can understand being pro-Brady and still rooting for him, I still do and definitely enjoy having a second rooting interest as a distraction if the Patriots aren't in it and the way that game went didn't bother me, it was a hard-fought game by both and the Patriots came up short...about as much as anyone could have hoped for.

But saying that about Mac given how well he's actually played in his first six games as a rookie is a little much.

 

[Rob0729]

Wait...what?

"He's a turnover machine"...?

That's a little harsh, especially if you rewatch the play and realize he got drilled as he finished dropping back and completely planted. And the interception was a little off and went off Bourne's hands, it's not like he pulled a throw like some of the other rookies and threw it right to a defender he didn't see.

I can understand being pro-Brady and still rooting for him, I still do and definitely enjoy having a second rooting interest as a distraction if the Patriots aren't in it and the way that game went didn't bother me, it was a hard-fought game by both and the Patriots came up short...about as much as anyone could have hoped for.

But saying that about Mac given how well he's actually played in his first six games as a rookie is a little much.

LOL, what's going to happen when Brady retires and Mac is even better 2-3 years from now? Don't make me bookmark this and pull out this thread on you

Don't forget that one of his INTs was a Hail Mary pass at the end of the game that the Pats had no chance of winning against the Saints. He had another INT in that game where he threw a perfect pass to Jonnu Smith and Smith bobbled it into the defender's hands.



So those are two INTs that were either not his fault or didn't matter because the game was already over. And the third interception he threw in that game, he was getting hit by Antoine Winfield Jr as he was throwing. Still partially on him, but also on the oline.

And I know this isn't the way you play this game (just stating it to counter the false turnover machine narrative), but you take away the Saints game and he has had three INTs in five games. Not bad in the turnover department.

 

[Ian]

Don't forget that one of his INTs was a Hail Mary pass at the end of the game that the Pats had no chance of winning against the Saints. He had another INT in that game where he threw a perfect pass to Jonnu Smith and Smith bobbled it into the defender's hands.



So those are two INTs that were either not his fault or didn't matter because the game was already over. And the third interception he threw in that game, he was getting hit by Antoine Winfield Jr as he was throwing. Still partially on him, but also on the oline.

And I know this isn't the way you play this game (just stating it to counter the false turnover machine narrative), but you take away the Saints game and he has had three INTs in five games. Not bad in the turnover department.

I brought this up in the article I wrote this morning:

"After seeing another turnover come on a play where the receiver had a shot at it, I took some time to look at his previous five interceptions, to see how they each transpired. Here’s a quick rundown of how they each played out (the ones in bold are ones that went off the hands of the receiver prior to the turnover):

1) Week 3 vs Saints – 2nd QTR – Jones hit right before he releases the football, Saints easily pick it off.
2) Week 3 vs Saints – 3rd QTR – Jones leads Jonnu Smith a little long, ball goes off his fingertips into the hands of a defender, who runs it back for a TD
3) Week 3 vs Saints – 4th QTR – Bad throw by Jones on an attempt to Nelson Agholor on a desperation play with 0:15 left in the game.
4) Week 4 vs Buccaneers – 1st QTR – With pressure coming in up the middle, Jones throws a pretty decent ball that Nelson Agholor goes up and over a defender to get, but the ball goes off his fingers into the hands of the defensive back for the turnover.
5) Week 5 at Texans – 3rd QTR – Miscommunication between Jones and Agholor. Jones threw inside while Agholor went outside. Agholor tried to knock it down, but the Texans came away with the turnover.

One thing that stood out is that of Jones’ six interceptions for the season, three of them have come when he’s targeted Agholor. Overall, the veteran wideout has seemed to struggle to get comfortable in the offense and has yet to have his breakout game. But so far, for whatever reason, he and Jones just haven’t been able to have a whole lot of luck to this point."

---
His turnovers weren't stupid throws and the two in bold went off players' hands. He's doing better than people seem to give him credit for.

 

[Pats1971]

I brought this up in the article I wrote this morning:

"After seeing another turnover come on a play where the receiver had a shot at it, I took some time to look at his previous five interceptions, to see how they each transpired. Here’s a quick rundown of how they each played out (the ones in bold are ones that went off the hands of the receiver prior to the turnover):

1) Week 3 vs Saints – 2nd QTR – Jones hit right before he releases the football, Saints easily pick it off.
2) Week 3 vs Saints – 3rd QTR – Jones leads Jonnu Smith a little long, ball goes off his fingertips into the hands of a defender, who runs it back for a TD
3) Week 3 vs Saints – 4th QTR – Bad throw by Jones on an attempt to Nelson Agholor on a desperation play with 0:15 left in the game.
4) Week 4 vs Buccaneers – 1st QTR – With pressure coming in up the middle, Jones throws a pretty decent ball that Nelson Agholor goes up and over a defender to get, but the ball goes off his fingers into the hands of the defensive back for the turnover.
5) Week 5 at Texans – 3rd QTR – Miscommunication between Jones and Agholor. Jones threw inside while Agholor went outside. Agholor tried to knock it down, but the Texans came away with the turnover.

One thing that stood out is that of Jones’ six interceptions for the season, three of them have come when he’s targeted Agholor. Overall, the veteran wideout has seemed to struggle to get comfortable in the offense and has yet to have his breakout game. But so far, for whatever reason, he and Jones just haven’t been able to have a whole lot of luck to this point."

---
His turnovers weren't stupid throws and the two in bold went off players' hands. He's doing better than people seem to give him credit for.

Man, its like reading the Chiefs board around here. I am going to break some news here. Int's are not always the QB's fault, but its not exclusive to only pats QB's. He also had 3 or 4 balls bounce off the texans chest too, we dont count those.

 

[Pats1971]

Wait...what?

"He's a turnover machine"...?

That's a little harsh, especially if you rewatch the play and realize he got drilled as he finished dropping back and completely planted. And the interception was a little off and went off Bourne's hands, it's not like he pulled a throw like some of the other rookies and threw it right to a defender he didn't see.

I can understand being pro-Brady and still rooting for him, I still do and definitely enjoy having a second rooting interest as a distraction if the Patriots aren't in it and the way that game went didn't bother me, it was a hard-fought game by both and the Patriots came up short...about as much as anyone could have hoped for.

But saying that about Mac given how well he's actually played in his first six games as a rookie is a little much.

LOL, what's going to happen when Brady retires and Mac is even better 2-3 years from now? Don't make me bookmark this and pull out this thread on you

mac is better than what? Are you saying what happens when Brady retires and Mac is better than Brady? Yes please bookmark this.

Anyway....he has 9 turnovers in 6 games, I do not know what is on the turnover machine level, I would say that is more than most.

 

[PP2]

People need to chill on this a little.

**** no. I'm loving it. It's been over a year since I've had so much fun. Mac Jones has set the place on fire and I'm ****ing triggered and I'll stay that way. I like us being the scrappy underdogs with zero expectations.

Honestly I was preparing myself for eternal mediocrity, after 20 years of sheer domination. Never thought lightning would strike twice, but here we are.

 

[PP2]

mac is better than what? Are you saying what happens when Brady retires and Mac is better than Brady? Yes please bookmark this.

Anyway....he has 9 turnovers in 6 games, I do not know what is on the turnover machine level, I would say that is more than most.

Your ass belongs in the Brady Butthurts forum.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Don't think so.

2001 skill players were pretty dreadful. But that’s where it ends.

 

[Ian]

mac is better than what? Are you saying what happens when Brady retires and Mac is better than Brady? Yes please bookmark this.

Anyway....he has 9 turnovers in 6 games, I do not know what is on the turnover machine level, I would say that is more than most.

I was referring to Mac being better than he is now.

Honestly...I don't understand what we're doing. Are we supposed to be mad Brady left forever and just hate everybody...? As I said, it sucks and I didn't like it, but if it didn't happen, they don't go 7-9 last year and Jones doesn't fall in our laps. Would I prefer Brady? Sure, but what if they won another SB or two and he retired and we cycled through another group of veteran retreads or draft picks that can't play at this level over the course of 5-6yrs or possibly even longer?

All I was trying to point out is I feel like we got lucky to end up with this kid. He's nowhere near as bad as some are making him out to be. I get it - Brady's gone and they're not Super Bowl favorites anymore, but I'm not planning on shutting this place down anytime soon and I feel like we've at least got a guy who will only get better and potentially be the guy who can get them back in the mix to contend for the future.

But like it or not, this is who we've got. I'm not thrilled about them being 2-4, but I'm essentially in the mindset of where I was in 2008 when Cassel was starting. I have no idea what will happen each week and I'm just going to accept the fact it might be a long year but I'm still going to try and enjoy the ride.

 

[Ian]

**** no. I'm loving it. It's been over a year since I've had so much fun. Mac Jones has set the place on fire and I'm ****ing triggered and I'll stay that way. I like us being the scrappy underdogs with zero expectations.

Honestly I was preparing myself for eternal mediocrity, after 20 years of sheer domination. Never thought lightning would strike twice, but here we are.

This. 1000% this.