This team isnt that bad

[sb1]

I think people are really saying the Pats games are entertaining to watch this year as a fan. When you watch a Pats game you’ll probably get a good one.

I agree with that. Last year was unwatchable, this year is much more fun to watch. So that’s something.

 

[venecol]

Actually the 4th and 4 prior to that was the game. But on the play you mention, you'd think they coulda found a way to double Lamb.

McCourty on that play:

“We’ll watch it, but we’re banged up, it’s tough. You would want more DBs in but you guys could see, it was tough. [Jonathan] Jones was in and out, [Adrian Phillips] went down for a second, [Justin Bethel] went down for a second, it was just tough. A play we try to practice just wasn’t executed well enough. That play was tough though.”

Sounds like coaches didn't have enough DBs?

 

[venecol]

Actually the 4th and 4 prior to that was the game. But on the play you mention, you'd think they coulda found a way to double Lamb.

Yea, the 4th & 4 was a killer. Great catch by the receiver on a beautifully placed ball by Prescott. JJ had no chance.

 

[Ring 6]

Attaboy.

Step1 is fixing the subIQs in the front office and offensive staff, namely 2 John Carroll college roomates: Ziegler and McDaniels. Won't re-state all the missteps the last 8 years but to be succinct, it's a massive list of mistakes.

.

Yeah only 3 SB Championships in the last 8 years. That must have been caused by a massive list of mistakes.
I bet dozens of times more than all those 31 other teams who won 5 between them.

 

[FCB02062]

the team isn't that bad? this team is on par with the 2000 Patriots at best,a team that was actually 2-4 as well

 

[Sam Bam Cunningham]

No I don't buy that. The Patriots often give up more yards/TOP and tighten up in the rz. We deserved to be in position to win both games at the end. Dallas' penalty yards were mostly on their center, who holds on every single play. They should have had more penalty yards.

Nobody knows if Dak scored, and he shouldn't have burrowed down at the goal line where nobody can see him. When they un-piled, he was short. Dallas failed 7 or 8 times on 3rd or 4th and 1.

The only "facts" are we win vs TB if the FG bounces differently, and we very likely beat Dallas if the face mask is called. Those 2 games came down to those 2 plays in the final seconds, and we were unlucky on both. You can also throw the Miami game in where we fumbled on the 8 yard line, but that was a once in a decade mistake rather than luck.

No, we do not necessarily win if the FG against Bucs was good. Brady would have had plenty of time to get in FG position and still win.
Also no we do not necessarily win if the face mask penalty was called. A FG would not win the game and cowboys probbaly or at least possibly could have still scored a touchdown.

 

[TheRainMaker]

the team isn't that bad? this team is on par with the 2000 Patriots at best,a team that was actually 2-4 as well

They have an arguably better roster on paper, but could end up with a worse record.

 

[AQPE]

My take on the Pats at this point is that their two prime issues are the implosion of their OL and poor play by their front 7 on defense. A third issue that hasn’t gotten a lot of note in this thread is the underperforming special teams.

I really thought going into the season that they’d be able to run the ball well, which I felt was critical with the rookie QB. However that was based on Brown being an upgrade from Big Mike at RT, Onwenu transitioning well to LG, and Wynn, Andrews, and Mason being as solid as they had been in the past. Not one of those things happened, losing Thuney seems to have hurt both Wynn and Andrew’s a lot, coupled with White going down and getting pretty much no production from Smith. I expected mediocrity from the WRs, which is what they’ve delivered IMHO. Mac is the only player on offense who has surpassed my expectations, which I think is in line with how a lot of us here feel about him. i guess if there had to be only o e pleasant surprise for us on offense that is probably the best one for us to have.

Regarding the defense, other than the Bucs game and the layup against the Jete they’ve been pushed around more often than not. This is where poor drafting has bitten them the worst. Batmore is off to a promising start I guess but they are getting very little production from anyone drafted the past 6 years other than Bentley, who isn‘t as horrible as I thought he was last year but is so limited. When people ***** about Harry, and I agree totally he is a wasted pick, or the trade down for Duggar, reaching for Jennings, Asiasi, the idiot kicker, etc., this is what I think about more than missing on Metcalf or another WR. They haven’t drafted an impact player in the front 7 since Jones and Hightower; Uche I hope proves me wrong but so far I haven’t seen it in the regular season.

Bottom line for me is this team is looking like an 8 or 9 loss team that will need to dump out on most of the older guys and rebuild on the LOS on both sides of the ball. The good news for me is that I think that, more than trying to find some “shiny toys,” is where BB has excelled in the past pulling things together pretty quickly.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Not really saying this is meaningful at all but absolute statements about how the yard total last night meant everything is a disaster and a never-before experience for a Belichick team:

When the Patriots lost to the Rams by one score back in 2001, we gave up the exact same yards during regulation that we gave up last night. 487 yards.

The Rams scored 24 that night.

This is how Belichick likes to play games.

Bro, if Belichick asks you to meet him at Sharon Tate’s house, tell him you’re sick.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

My take on the Pats at this point is that their two prime issues are the implosion of their OL and poor play by their front 7 on defense. A third issue that hasn’t gotten a lot of note in this thread is the underperforming special teams.

I really thought going into the season that they’d be able to run the ball well, which I felt was critical with the rookie QB. However that was based on Brown being an upgrade from Big Mike at RT, Onwenu transitioning well to LG, and Wynn, Andrews, and Mason being as solid as they had been in the past. Not one of those things happened, losing Thuney seems to have hurt both Wynn and Andrew’s a lot, coupled with White going down and getting pretty much no production from Smith. I expected mediocrity from the WRs, which is what they’ve delivered IMHO. Mac is the only player on offense who has surpassed my expectations, which I think is in line with how a lot of us here feel about him. i guess if there had to be only o e pleasant surprise for us on offense that is probably the best one for us to have.

Regarding the defense, other than the Bucs game and the layup against the Jete they’ve been pushed around more often than not. This is where poor drafting has bitten them the worst. Batmore is off to a promising start I guess but they are getting very little production from anyone drafted the past 6 years other than Bentley, who isn‘t as horrible as I thought he was last year but is so limited. When people ***** about Harry, and I agree totally he is a wasted pick, or the trade down for Duggar, reaching for Jennings, Asiasi, the idiot kicker, etc., this is what I think about more than missing on Metcalf or another WR. They haven’t drafted an impact player in the front 7 since Jones and Hightower; Uche I hope proves me wrong but so far I haven’t seen it in the regular season.

Bottom line for me is this team is looking like an 8 or 9 loss team that will need to dump out on most of the older guys and rebuild on the LOS on both sides of the ball. The good news for me is that I think that, more than trying to find some “shiny toys,” is where BB has excelled in the past pulling things together pretty quickly.

We haven’t drafted a pro bowler on offense or defense since 2013. The closest we came, Joe Thuney, we let walk.

 

[VectorPrime]

Not really saying this is meaningful at all but absolute statements about how the yard total last night meant everything is a disaster and a never-before experience for a Belichick team:

When the Patriots lost to the Rams by one score back in 2001, we gave up the exact same yards during regulation that we gave up last night. 487 yards.

The Rams scored 24 that night.

This is how Belichick likes to play games.

That team was 5-5 after losing that game. This team is currently 2-4 and 0-4 AT HOME. Come on.

Enough with the stupid ass 2001 comparisons already for both the team and Mac specifically. Brady was 11-3 in his starts that year.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

This 2001 comparison stuff is absolutely ridiculous and strains credibility. I honestly can’t take any of you seriously because you’re all crazy…lol

Sincerely,
John (author of The Book of Revelation)

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

It is an irrefutable fact terrible teams lose a lot of games by double digits.

It is an irrefutable fact not very good teams lose a lot of close games.

The 2000 Patriots who finished 5-11 lost 9 of their games by a score or less.

Teams that aren't very good will lose the close ones.

Bill Parcells- "You are what you record says you are"
No truer words were ever spoken.

No one should fool themselves into thinking this teams any better then bottom 12 team in the league
getting close does not make a difference...


I am concerned that Mac Jones is being historically overrated by the fan base before he should be. Does he show promise as an accurate and smart QB...yes. Has he done anything yet to indicate he is likely to become a top 7 QB in this league.....no.
Way too early to assume he is a franchise QB. Rex Ryan is an idiot, but some of his comments intent rings true....he is still more likely to be an average QB in this league than an elite one.

If we're going to do this, then you can just pick out almost any Patriot team over the last two decades. Just randomly choosing the 2013 team, they could have easily been 15-1. They also could have easily been 6-10.

As much fun as I poked at the Chiefs late last season, they won all of those one-score games. Good teams win those more often than not.

You are what your record says you are.

View attachment 36723

LOL. Best 2-4 team, you've seen? Do you also believe in participation awards? Should the Patriots hang up an AFC East "Runner UP" flag like the Colts?

Let's face reality, we're 2-4 because we deserve that record. A close loss is still a loss. And the sad thing is that conservative, gutless calls is what put us exactly where we are today. Mac Jones was on fire against Tampa Bay, moving the offense at will, but rather than allowing him to go for it on 4th and short, BB opts for a 56 yard field goal in the RAIN. Inexcusable. In a game that went to OT, with 90 seconds remaining in the 1st half against the Cowboys where Mac had to that point completed 100% of his passes, BB instructed his QB to kneel down instead of running the 2 minute drill. That decision also cost us the game.

We're 2-4 in part to decisions like this, in part to the fact that overall this team is less talented than the 2010s Patriots, only BB doesn't seem to get that yet. We are where we are supposed to be, our players play like our coaches tell them to play. And the end result is we're losers. Sub .500 and poised to miss the playoffs in consecutive seasons. The EXCUSES need to STOP and the Coaches and Players need to look in the mirror and ask themselves Honestly, what can we do Better? Until that happens, the Losing is just gonna keep going.

Blindly defending BB isn't going to make this team any better. When he makes mistakes, put his feet to the fire. Humans don't learn nearly as much from success as they do from PAIN. Kissing the emperor's ass when he has no clothes ain't gonna lead to this team winning more, EVER.

Yup. Most teams that are in that 4-8 win category USUALLY have 5 games a year where "if this or that play happened, we would have won".

The whole point is that if you keep on losing those games, you have key flaws.

The Giants last year were like that.

Heck... the PATRIOTS LAST YEAR were like that. Remember the Seattle, Denver, Buffalo, and Houston games last season?

We've already had 3 of those in the first 6 weeks.

 

[upstater1]

Bro, if Belichick asks you to meet him at Sharon Tate’s house, tell him you’re sick.

Can you read?

I posted that for one reason only: to show absolutist statements about yards given up are wrong.

 

[upstater1]

That team was 5-5 after losing that game. This team is currently 2-4 and 0-4 AT HOME. Come on.

Enough with the stupid ass 2001 comparisons already for both the team and Mac specifically. Brady was 11-3 in his starts that year.

I would not say I'm the stupid ass one. I would say that my post clearly says an absolute statement about yards given up is meaningless.

I never said this is the 2001 Patriots.

But people here having a freakout over yards given up by a Belichick D have a very short memory.

It's like you forgot the way Belichick wants his defense to play. What we saw in the first 60 minutes was precisely the way Belichick plays it.

 

[mikey m]

What do we need next year? We need a #1 receiver. We need LBs. We need a #1 CB.

A lot of money is coming off the books with Hightower and Gilmore contracts, so we'll have money to grab a CB if one's available.

LBs need to be drafted but please please please can one of Uche, Winovich or Perkins step up here?

I have faith in Barmore, Judon, Wise and Guy holding down the fort on the DL for the next year. We can draft for depth there.

We have some depth in the d-backfield with Jackson, Jones, Dugger, Phillips etc. but we need to draft depth, we need to sign a #1 CB.

I have absolutely no faith in Algholor. He doesn't have a big signing bonus. This union is going to be short-lived.

Bourne and Meyers are both more than adequate and better than average as #2 WRs.

We are looking good for the future with some salary cap room & big needs only at WR, CB and LB. Not a bad position to be.

The team will only be as good as Uche, Barmore and Dugger allow us to be. I have faith in the offense, but we need need need people to step up and develop on D. If it doesn't happen with those 3, we are screwed.

I'd put OL ahead of all of that. If OL play improves and Mac develops and takes a jump next season, I think our skill position players will look more than adequate. Finding a true WR1 would still be more of a luxury and secondary to getting better OL play imo.
Looks like we're sadly near the end of Hightower's career. Really bummed injuries prevented us from seeing what we have in McMillan and Mcgrone this season, but have hope they will contribute and show some promise next year.
Need to find McCourty's replacement as well.
Looking at the roster, I am actually optimistic, but like you said just need some key guys to continue to develop. Need to bolster the OL, add one very good and one decent piece at FS/CB (maybe Wade can help provide part of the answer, not counting on it. Intriguing FA here next year though. If we need a cheap option, maybe a reunion with Duron Harmon? Not sure what he's been up to), and a good MLB (hope Mcgrone can develop into that guy).

 

[stelfans]

I agree, the team has flaws but isnt that bad. The coaching staff on the other hand is one of the worsts in the league.

 

[PScottman]

they're professional athletes and if they're "gassed" they're not committed to proper conditioning.

The "I'm jealous I don't get paid what these guys do to work out" envy post.

If you're not gassed running 114 wind sprints at your full speed over three hours; you have no idea what high level sports execution is. No human can exert repetitive, aerobic or anaerobic output at a specific sustained level over time without loss of productivity. It is both physically and chemically impossible. Otherwise, why cant players at the combine do unlimited reps????????

Both sides were hands on hips and sucking wind at the end of regulation because they were putting everything they had into every snap.

 

[DarrylS]

I have defended BB forever, but it seems the time has come for him to either share his responsibilities or move to the front office. We are forever indebted to him for what he has done, but it seems that the game has passed him by. Coupled with the nepotism for his kids while not finding other coaches who could do the job. The talent evaluation is also suspect. Then add a layer of questionable play calling only makes me believe that the time is sooner, not later.

 

[Sam Bam Cunningham]

I'd put OL ahead of all of that. If OL play improves and Mac develops and takes a jump next season, I think our skill position players will look more than adequate. Finding a true WR1 would still be more of a luxury and secondary to getting better OL play imo.
Looks like we're sadly near the end of Hightower's career. Really bummed injuries prevented us from seeing what we have in McMillan and Mcgrone this season, but have hope they will contribute and show some promise next year.
Need to find McCourty's replacement as well.
Looking at the roster, I am actually optimistic, but like you said just need some key guys to continue to develop. Need to bolster the OL, add one very good and one decent piece at FS/CB (maybe Wade can help provide part of the answer, not counting on it. Intriguing FA here next year though. If we need a cheap option, maybe a reunion with Duron Harmon? Not sure what he's been up to), and a good MLB (hope Mcgrone can develop into that guy).

This team needs an elite LT more than any other position by far. You can not consistently win in this league without a top tier offense and it all starts with a LT after the QB