This team isnt that bad

[festy1986]

How am I moving the goal post?
They are 2-4 with 11 games to play.

2-4 including close losses against good teams makes the prospects for the next 11 better than 2-4 getting blown out.

Ultimately they have 11 games left to play which will determine their season.

Because at 2 and 4 it doesn't matter that they barely lost to two good teams.

Like it literally doesn't matter.

Just like it didn't matter we almost won 3 Superbowls that we lost.

If they turn it around than awesome but as of right now they are who they are. A team that can't win when it matters.

 

[50-yard-line]

The 2000 Patriots who finished 5-11 lost 9 of their games by a score or less.

Teams that aren't very good will lose the close ones.

And will be very close to getting over the hump and winning...sometimes even the next year.

 

[50-yard-line]

Defense was solid against Dallas, only 10 points given up by halftime. Then ran out of gas defending 82 total Dallas plays run as the Pats offense had a half dozen straight 3 and outs. Defense could be improved by replacing Bentley and Godchaux. Not sure if Mills is a CB2.

The offense, can't really tell since the OLine is so inconsistent. OLine and oc. I think the offense can be fixed by addressing those 2 issues.

I know you hate this, but Godchaux was pretty damned good yesterday. 6 times Dallas tried for a yard between the tackles and six times they failed.

 

[Nunchucks]

The patriots are losing games that the opponents are try to lose, but the patriots want to lose more. The cowboys had 100+ penalty yards and 2 red zone turnovers...nevermind the first drive...going for it on 4th down on their own end.

Cowboys did everything in their power to lose...the patriots just wanted to lose more.

Same with the Bucs.

This team is 2-4 and they have played like it.

 

[Hyped]

Yeah, this is NOT A BAD team...but damn it...we need some Dubs in the worst way.

One silver lining....3 losses to the NFC. We are still 2-1 in the conference.

The bad....we lost to the freaking Dolphins....

A look at the rest of the schedule:

7	Sun, Oct 24	vsNew York	10:00 AM	CBS	Tickets as low as $105
8	Sun, Oct 31	@Los Angeles	1:05 PM	CBS	Tickets as low as $79
9	Sun, Nov 7	@Carolina	10:00 AM	CBS	Tickets as low as $100
10	Sun, Nov 14	vsCleveland	10:00 AM	CBS	Tickets as low as $154
11	Thu, Nov 18	@Atlanta	5:20 PM	FOX NFL NET	Tickets as low as $58
12	Sun, Nov 28	vsTennessee	10:00 AM	CBS	Tickets as low as $130
13	Mon, Dec 6	@Buffalo	5:15 PM		Tickets as low as $71
14	BYE WEEK
15	Sun, Dec 19	@Indianapolis	TBD		Tickets as low as $35
16	Sun, Dec 26	vsBuffalo	10:00 AM	CBS	Tickets as low as $116
17	Sun, Jan 2	vsJacksonville	10:00 AM	CBS	Tickets as low as $97
18	Sun, Jan 9	@Miami	10:00 AM	CBS	Tickets as low as $67

Pretty sure we win against: NYJ, Jacksonville, and @Miami. That's 3 wins.

Then: @LAC, @CAR, @Atl, @Buff, and @Indy....I say 3-2 is doable.

Then: CLE, TEN, and BUF are the KEY home games remaining....

I see us being 8-6 with those 3 home games (not including JAX) deciding our season. If we go 2-1 in those 3 home games...we have an outside shot at the #7 seed. If we go 4-1 in the four roadies above....our odds improve dramatically, IMO. So...that Halloween game in L.A. will be HUGE, IMO as it will buy us a one game margin of error when we visit @Car/@Atl/@Indy.

 

[Pats1971]

The patriots are losing games that the opponents are try to lose, but the patriots want to lose more. The cowboys had 100+ penalty yards and 2 red zone turnovers...nevermind the first drive...going for it on 4th down on their own end.

Cowboys did everything in their power to lose...the patriots just wanted to lose more.

Same with the Bucs.

This team is 2-4 and they have played like it.

Yeah with all the things the cowboys did that was messed up, you lose those games. twice in the redzone, came away with no points. penalties after penalties, turnovers, stupid coaching decisions.

 

[Pats1971]

Yeah, this is NOT A BAD team...but damn it...we need some Dubs in the worst way.

One silver lining....3 losses to the NFC. We are still 2-1 in the conference.

The bad....we lost to the freaking Dolphins....

A look at the rest of the schedule:

7	Sun, Oct 24	vsNew York	10:00 AM	CBS	Tickets as low as $105
8	Sun, Oct 31	@Los Angeles	1:05 PM	CBS	Tickets as low as $79
9	Sun, Nov 7	@Carolina	10:00 AM	CBS	Tickets as low as $100
10	Sun, Nov 14	vsCleveland	10:00 AM	CBS	Tickets as low as $154
11	Thu, Nov 18	@Atlanta	5:20 PM	FOX NFL NET	Tickets as low as $58
12	Sun, Nov 28	vsTennessee	10:00 AM	CBS	Tickets as low as $130
13	Mon, Dec 6	@Buffalo	5:15 PM		Tickets as low as $71
14	BYE WEEK
15	Sun, Dec 19	@Indianapolis	TBD		Tickets as low as $35
16	Sun, Dec 26	vsBuffalo	10:00 AM	CBS	Tickets as low as $116
17	Sun, Jan 2	vsJacksonville	10:00 AM	CBS	Tickets as low as $97
18	Sun, Jan 9	@Miami	10:00 AM	CBS	Tickets as low as $67

Pretty sure we win against: NYJ, Jacksonville, and @Miami. That's 3 wins.

Then: @LAC, @CAR, @Atl, @Buff, and @Indy....I say 3-2 is doable.

Then: CLE, TEN, and BUF are the KEY home games remaining....

I see us being 8-6 with those 3 home games (not including JAX) deciding our season. If we go 2-1 in those 3 home games...we have an outside shot at the #7 seed. If we go 4-1 in the four roadies above....our odds improve dramatically, IMO. So...that Halloween game in L.A. will be HUGE, IMO as it will buy us a one game margin of error when we visit @Car/@Atl/@Indy.

I mean yeah that can happen, I just have not seen them beat even an average team yet. There two wins are against bottom feeders. Until they can beat even an average team, I am not sure what they will be. One real issue, is the only team they have played so far that have had a good defense is the Saints. Literally thats it, and in that game the offense could do nothing.

 

[Hyped]

I mean yeah that can happen, I just have not seen them beat even an average team yet. There two wins are against bottom feeders. Until they can beat even an average team, I am not sure what they will be. One real issue, is the only team they have played so far that have had a good defense is the Saints. Literally thats it, and in that game the offense could do nothing.

The Saints game was a weird one too....17 rushing attempts vs. 51 passing attempts....

We need to run the ball a lot better than that. Also, the Jonnu deflection for a pick six really took us out of our rushing offense too. Take that pick six away...Mac is driving for the game tying TD at the end of regulation at least.

Drives me crazy....we're so CLOSE to be a 4-2 team.....maybe even 5-1.

Edit: 1-5 too...LOL

 

[50-yard-line]

It was eye opening wasn't it? Looking at Dallas' roster of young, home grown talent. Literally super stars everywhere. Their two biggest plays the pick six and the game winning TD came from two players they drafted in 2020.

Parsons, Smith, Elliott, Zack Martin, Tyron Smith - all picked earlier than any pick the Pats have had in 15 years, other than Mac Jones.

How much have they won in that time?

 

[Pats1971]

The Saints game was a weird one too....17 rushing attempts vs. 51 passing attempts....

We need to run the ball a lot better than that. Also, the Jonnu deflection for a pick six really took us out of our rushing offense too. Take that pick six away...Mac is driving for the game tying TD at the end of regulation at least.

Drives me crazy....we're so CLOSE to be a 4-2 team.....maybe even 5-1.

Edit: 1-5 too...LOL

They threw because they were behind. For 20 years, I have heard other teams say, many we are close to being this record or this record, and yeah I get it, but in the NFL you have great teams, they win consistently, all sorts of ways, close, blowout, etc. Then you have your real bad teams, they cant beat anyone, close or not. Then everyone else is in the middle. They cannot really blow most teams out, they can beat teams that are way worse than them, really cant beat very good teams, and split with the rest of the average teams....that is where the pats are. Its been awhile since they were there, but that is where they are.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

They're better than the 2-4 record indicates, as the Tampa and Dallas games showed. Forgetting every mistake made last night in regulation, if Agholor gets the face mask call, we probably win. If Folk's FG attempt vs Tampa bounces the other way off the cross bar, we do win. That's just hard luck football being the diff between 2-4 and 4-2.

Yes you can delve into all the problems with the OL, RB's, defense letting down, ST allowing 2 blocked punts, BB not going for it 4th and 3, Mac making mistakes, yada, yada. But even with all that, it was also just fate that we lost those games, against probably the 2 best teams in the league. Fate has a way of evening out, plus we're improving, so don't jump ship yet. Aside from the 2 Buffalo games, they're as good as anyone else on their schedule. They could win 8 of their last 11 and finish 10-7.

 

[Pats1971]

They're better than the 2-4 record indicates, as the Tampa and Dallas games showed. Forgetting every mistake made last night in regulation, if Agholor gets the face mask call, we probably win. If Folk's FG attempt vs Tampa bounces the other way off the cross bar, we do win. That's just hard luck football being the diff between 2-4 and 4-2.

Yes you can delve into all the problems with the OL, RB's, defense letting down, ST allowing 2 blocked punts, BB not going for it 4th and 3, Mac making mistakes, yada, yada. But even with all that, it was also just fate that we lost those games, against probably the 2 best teams in the league. Fate has a way of evening out, plus we're improving, so don't jump ship yet. Aside from the 2 Buffalo games, they're as good as anyone else on their schedule. They could win 8 of their last 11 and finish 10-7.

I would say a lot more bad things happened to the cowboys and Bucs in those games that ended up making the game close than things that went against the pats. I mean I am not sure teh cowboys could have got worse things that went against them and actually won. Most teams beat them when that happens. Two times in the redzone with no points? 140 penalty yards. There is no, almost wins, you either win or you dont. Fate is not why the pats lost. As far as whats left. They are not as good as the Chargers, I dont think they are better than the browns, or the titans or maybe even the colts. I will have to answer those questions when they show they can win against anyone that actually has better than a 1-5 record. Because that is their two wins. Its hard to say how many teams they are better than.

 

[Ring 6]

Because at 2 and 4 it doesn't matter that they barely lost to two good teams.

Like it literally doesn't matter.

Just like it didn't matter we almost won 3 Superbowls that we lost.

If they turn it around than awesome but as of right now they are who they are. A team that can't win when it matters.

Ok Mr Cliche.

 

[venecol]

The Defense has played well enough to win games this yera, but when you have to go out there over and over and keep a team below 20 or you lose, thats pretty hard on a defense. Pats got the ball first in OT, in the past, that meant game over pats win, now its, well we made it to the 50? This offense is not exactly helping out the defense this year. The pats had the cowboys in the redzone twice yesterday and kept them from scoring a single point. But at some point you have to put up points on offense.

The offense scored 10 points above their avg. The D allowed 9 points above their avg. Sure Mac missed some throws and the O did go 3 and out multiple times but the D has to hold. Belichick says the game is 60 minutes. We know Pats players are the best conditioned in the league.

The Pats were 128-3 when leading with 2 minutes left in the game at HOME. Now it's 128-4. That 25 yd pass to set up game tying FG can't happen. That was the game right there.

 

[Drunken Cicerone]

Let’s be honest Dallas shot themselves in the foot a few times and had a bad no TD call or they would have dropped 50.

pats defense bled like a sieve and gave up over 500 yards. That’s pretty bad.

small improvements, young talent getting better. I’ll take individual gains over wins this season and keep fingers crossed we get some O line help and not an oft injured CB in round one

 

[Vindicate]

I'm oscillating on this often.

Many times even the most capable Patriots teams would win by one score, one favorable bounce, and it happened against great teams and bad teams. So the while the close-loss metric isn't useless, it is certainly prone to confirmation bias. Great Patriots teams reflect this bias as well, as they tended to uncover our worries and heighten "is this team even that good?" talk.

That being said, I do think our defensive meltdowns can be attributed to fatigue (not entirely explained though) - I said this when we had the boogeymen as well.

It's also worrisome that our losses come at home. That's typically when you have a higher expectation to win those close games.

It also doesn't help that as soon as Brady leaves, the AFC - by coincidence - happened to get tougher. Not only do we have Mahomes here, but now we have Burrows w/ the Bengals (not saying they're great, but much better now), the Bills look like a well-rounded team, Ravens are powerful again, Raiders are a weird threat, and the Dolphins - no matter how bad - have a coach that's very familiar with Bill.

This is a very polarizing team. I don't think this is our year, but I do think if Jones keeps healthy and happy, we have some decent young pieces to build around.

Goddamnit we need a hot hot draft, specifically on offense. Brady made it so we can develop cheaper WR's into studs, and we don't have that luxury. It has resulted into us paying big dollars to skill positions that cramp our cap.

And... I'm getting more and more into the idea that I am not a fan of McDaniels. I'm willing to concede that his could be an emotional response, but goddamnit, my lack of X/O knowledge has me reallllyyyyyy confused by some of his calls.

I dunno. This team is weird lol.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

I'm oscillating on this often.

Many times even the most capable Patriots teams would win by one score, one favorable bounce, and it happened against great teams and bad teams. So the while the close-loss metric isn't useless, it is certainly prone to confirmation bias. Great Patriots teams reflect this bias as well, as they tended to uncover our worries and heighten "is this team even that good?" talk.

That being said, I do think our defensive meltdowns can be attributed to fatigue (not entirely explained though) - I said this when we had the boogeymen as well.

It's also worrisome that our losses come at home. That's typically when you have a higher expectation to win those close games.

It also doesn't help that as soon as Brady leaves, the AFC - by coincidence - happened to get tougher. Not only do we have Mahomes here, but now we have Burrows w/ the Bengals (not saying they're great, but much better now), the Bills look like a well-rounded team, Ravens are powerful again, Raiders are a weird threat, and the Dolphins - no matter how bad - have a coach that's very familiar with Bill.

This is a very polarizing team. I don't think this is our year, but I do think if Jones keeps healthy and happy, we have some decent young pieces to build around.

Goddamnit we need a hot hot draft, specifically on offense. Brady made it so we can develop cheaper WR's into studs, and we don't have that luxury. It has resulted into us paying big dollars to skill positions that cramp our cap.

And... I'm getting more and more into the idea that I am not a fan of McDaniels. I'm willing to concede that his could be an emotional response, but goddamnit, my lack of X/O knowledge has me reallllyyyyyy confused by some of his calls.

I dunno. This team is weird lol.

Attaboy.

Step1 is fixing the subIQs in the front office and offensive staff, namely 2 John Carroll college roomates: Ziegler and McDaniels. Won't re-state all the missteps the last 8 years but to be succinct, it's a massive list of mistakes.

.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

I would say a lot more bad things happened to the cowboys and Bucs in those games that ended up making the game close than things that went against the pats. I mean I am not sure teh cowboys could have got worse things that went against them and actually won. Most teams beat them when that happens. Two times in the redzone with no points? 140 penalty yards. There is no, almost wins, you either win or you dont. Fate is not why the pats lost. As far as whats left. They are not as good as the Chargers, I dont think they are better than the browns, or the titans or maybe even the colts. I will have to answer those questions when they show they can win against anyone that actually has better than a 1-5 record. Because that is their two wins. Its hard to say how many teams they are better than.

No I don't buy that. The Patriots often give up more yards/TOP and tighten up in the rz. We deserved to be in position to win both games at the end. Dallas' penalty yards were mostly on their center, who holds on every single play. They should have had more penalty yards.

Nobody knows if Dak scored, and he shouldn't have burrowed down at the goal line where nobody can see him. When they un-piled, he was short. Dallas failed 7 or 8 times on 3rd or 4th and 1.

The only "facts" are we win vs TB if the FG bounces differently, and we very likely beat Dallas if the face mask is called. Those 2 games came down to those 2 plays in the final seconds, and we were unlucky on both. You can also throw the Miami game in where we fumbled on the 8 yard line, but that was a once in a decade mistake rather than luck.

 

[upstater1]

Not really saying this is meaningful at all but absolute statements about how the yard total last night meant everything is a disaster and a never-before experience for a Belichick team:

When the Patriots lost to the Rams by one score back in 2001, we gave up the exact same yards during regulation that we gave up last night. 487 yards.

The Rams scored 24 that night.

This is how Belichick likes to play games.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

The offense scored 10 points above their avg. The D allowed 9 points above their avg. Sure Mac missed some throws and the O did go 3 and out multiple times but the D has to hold. Belichick says the game is 60 minutes. We know Pats players are the best conditioned in the league.

The Pats were 128-3 when leading with 2 minutes left in the game at HOME. Now it's 128-4. That 25 yd pass to set up game tying FG can't happen. That was the game right there.

Actually the 4th and 4 prior to that was the game. But on the play you mention, you'd think they coulda found a way to double Lamb.