Game Day Thread Official Post Game Thread- Bucs beat the Pats

[PatsWickedPissah]

I’m actually just now considering how amazing it is that Mac was hit 14 times, only had an average of something like 2 seconds to throw, and still completed 78% of his passes. Imagine how he’d do with a competent line.

Yes, but consider that he was throwing against a defensive backfield that had no business starting an NFL game. Scrubs.

 

[Rob0729]

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Psst! So it is the Bucs' offensive line that Winston is a bonehead?

I know you are an idiot, but the fact you believe Winston is a great QB who only gets INTs is a step too far. What do you think we should offer to the Saints for Winston? Jones and three first round picks?

 

[PP2]

Every week it looks increasingly that we are very fortunate to have this kid.

That's the most important part. Everything else is fixable or replaceable, but when it comes to getting a top-notch QB that can compete in the NFL, you really need to catch lightning in a bottle.

 

[Nunchucks]

Yes this. Perspective. Lots of us are "celebrating" competitive efforts and individual stats almost as victories or bragging rights. Back in the day I'd use that kind of argument with my Yankee fan friends on how Wade Boggs was a better hitter than any yankee. Sox couldn't beat the Yankees is the standings but I'd hold onto stats for one up manship. The Pats have to deliver with actual victories. Let's not become the Colts and raise the "We almost won when everyone thought we'd get blown out" banners. Pats have to clean up the mistakes to win these close games.

When the team is bad, you enjoy what you and. What is the point of being miserable because the team is bad?

They look better...this is good. What else should I do? Whine and cry over the same points for years on end?

 

[1960Pats]

Game was lost in the offseason. BB the GM shoulda kept Sony. Plain and simple. You ain't winning **** with Bolden on the field. He is the slowest skill player on the team. These backs that Bill kept have fumbled away 2 wins. Shameful.

When was the last time the Pats rushed for -1 yards? Like I said those 2-14 90s teams had better offensive lines.

This team should be 3 and 1.

Are you seeing more than 4 more wins this season? I'm not.

At least Kraft made sure we have male cheerleaders. That's much more important these days than running backs who hang onto the ball and linemen who can run/ pass block.

It didn't seem like they ran the ball much.
Sony wasn't the answer. One of the new kids may be.
They could be 3 and 1 or they could be 2 and 2.
The offense on this team will improve. Trust me.
I didn't know that the cheerleaders counted toward the cap.

 

[Rob0729]

Oh rob

So you blame the Bucs' o-line for Winston's mistakes too?

 

[BradytoMosstoGronk]

If football knowledge was required to post here there would about 10 members here.

Whoa.

10 members and a Josh McDaniels superfan.

 

[Rob0729]

What? That’s airtight, hard hitting analysis from 2021’s Top Patriots Fan. If you just take away the 33 INTs Winston had in 2019, he had a good year. If you just add a few zeros to the end of your bank account balance, you’re a billionaire. I mean this is rock solid stuff.

I am pointing out the o-line wasn't all that bad in 2019. The INTs were on Winston. He still passed for 5100 yards and 33 TDs behind an alleged horrible o-line. That's my point. QBs don't pass for over 5,000 yards if the o-line is horrible.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Whoa.

10 members and a Josh McDaniels superfan.

I'm still lol'g at the fact that @DropKickFlutie said we should give our RB's permission to block down the middle lol. Like are they suppose to yell over to the sidelines to ask for permission lol? He said it was too tough guessing which side to go to, left or right.

Honestly you can't make it up.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Psst! So it is the Bucs' offensive line that Winston is a bonehead?

I know you are an idiot, but the fact you believe Winston is a great QB who only gets INTs is a step too far. What do you think we should offer to the Saints for Winston? Jones and three first round picks?

Huh? Winston sucks. But you can’t have your cake and eat it too. He threw 33 INTs and a lot of TDs and yards were due to falling behind and plenty of chucking it up. You can’t simultaneously claim he sucks because of INTs but he’s good because of his TDs/yards. His season stats in 2018 make it difficult to provide a benchmark form Tampa Bay’s offense with a normal QB.

Arians overly complicated system likely has to do with a lot of this though.

 

[Rob0729]

Huh? Winston sucks. But you can’t have your cake and eat it too. He threw 33 INTs and a lot of TDs and yards were due to falling behind and plenty of chucking it up. You can’t simultaneously claim he sucks because of INTs but he’s good because of his TDs/yards. His season stats in 2018 make it difficult to provide a benchmark form Tampa Bay’s offense with a normal QB.

That wasn't point. We are talking about the Bucs' 2019 o-line. If they are that bad, how did Winston lead the league in passing yards.

I think Winston sucks which more of a testament to the talent around him that he could lead the league in passing and was second in the league in TD passes. That was my point.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I am pointing out the o-line wasn't all that bad in 2019. The INTs were on Winston. He still passed for 5100 yards and 33 TDs behind an alleged horrible o-line. That's my point. QBs don't pass for over 5,000 yards if the o-line is horrible.

I said "oh Rob" bc of this gem.
You take away his INTs which was mostly because he makes stupid decisions, he would had a good year.

I'm on record of saying the Bucs OL wasn't that bad at all and would be a lot better with Wirfs and Brady.

Also QB's throw for big yards behind bad OL all the time. Wilson and Watson don't help their line but both have thrown for a bunch of yards behind bad lines. Stafford and Ryan as well.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I am pointing out the o-line wasn't all that bad in 2019. The INTs were on Winston. He still passed for 5100 yards and 33 TDs behind an alleged horrible o-line. That's my point. QBs don't pass for over 5,000 yards if the o-line is horrible.

No, it wasn’t bad. Quarterbacks are responsible for a lot of the line play too. Just like that “bad” Denver line in 2011 that couldn’t block for fake quarterback suddenly had solid protection in 2012. It’s a good line…a talented one. But having a generational QB will of course improve the results.

 

[Rob0729]

I said "oh Rob" bc of this gem.
You take away his INTs which was mostly because he makes stupid decisions, he would had a good year.

I'm on record of saying the Bucs OL wasn't that bad at all and would be a lot better with Wirfs and Brady.

Also QB's throw for big yards behind bad OL all the time. Wilson and Watson don't help their line but both have thrown for a bunch of yards behind bad lines. Stafford and Ryan as well.

Again, he led the league in passing and second in TDs and he is a mediocre QB. That is a testament to the players around him.

And Wilson and Watson are great QBs. They can make things happen with lesser talent around them. Winston can't.

 

[Rob0729]

No, it wasn’t bad. Quarterbacks are responsible for a lot of the line play too. Just like that “bad” Denver line in 2011 that couldn’t block for fake quarterback suddenly had solid protection in 2012. It’s a good line…a talented one. But having a generational QB Will of course improve the results.

Sure a QB can make all the players around them better or worse.

I obviously didn't make my point as clearly as I should. But the point stands, the o-line wasn't that bad if Winston could pass for all those yards. Did Brady make them better? Probably. But they clearly weren't as bad as the current Patriots' o-line with Winston and before Brady.

 

[1960Pats]

THEY’RE NOT GOOD ANYMORE THEY HATE THEIR COACH

no jk be grateful look at atl.

they got the great white qb man and look at them. Dog vomit.

I remember thinking that Matt Ryan wouldn't make it as a pro QB but Michael Vick would. You never know eh?

What's Atlanta's record?

 

[Deus Irae]

Again, he led the league in passing and second in TDs and he is a mediocre QB. That is a testament to the players around him.

And Wilson and Watson are great QBs. They can make things happen with lesser talent around them. Winston can't.

Winston is well above average when it comes to actually throwing the ball. The problem is that Winston is well below average when it comes do high pressure decision making. That's why he's thrown for more than 4000 yards in all 3 of his complete seasons as a starter, but hands out interceptions like he's handing out candy on Halloween. Obviously, there is a recency bias when it comes to QB passing stats, but the fact is that, according to PFR, Winston is #16 all time in passing yards per game.



NFL Passing Yards per Game Career Leaders | Pro-Football-Reference.com

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Both teams tried giving that away. Pats had the ball last and gave it away by trying for that FG. It was close but seems like it was less than 50/50 he'd make that. I can assure you that everyone on the Bucs wanted them to attempt the FG.

I’m not sure why they went for the 56 yard field goal. Even if Folk makes it, you give Brady the ball back with 2 time outs and 1 minute on the clock needing a field goal. Brady isn’t letting that slip by. I know Jones did a ton, but should have given him a shot on that 4th snd 3.

Kicking that 56 yarder was a dumb ass decision.

Rain.
Injured kicker.
Folk has no range.
Too much time left and two TOs even if you make it.

Put the game in Mac's hands. If he loses, he loses... but do not screw the team with dumb ass decisions like that.

That being said, I am happy about tonight. Mac responsed GREAT to the Saints ass kicking. He played very very well. Defense was much better. We gave ourselves a chance to win.

Sucks to be 1-3 though...

Pissed off about the call to go for the FG, it was a lose lose decision.

take back everything I said last week though about keeping cam as an option...when your rookie can play like he did today then give him all the time he needs.

Great game from Mac, just a shame about the one big **** up he did when he almost gave it to white while I think bolden was wide open. Can’t blame him though, this loss is on Bill and in fairness we got a couple of soft calls for a change which kept us in it.

great game, gonna be so tired at work in 3 hours but well worth it.

rain, bad conditions, you got tb with 59 seconds left and 2 timeouts, long distance...

that's an easy decision for me to go for it instead of kicking the fg.

Yeah, the field goal kick decision was mind-boggling.

NextGen says there was a 45% probability for Folk. Going on 4th and 3 seems to be some weird ex post facto consensus "go for it" conclusion... after the game. (see below.)

You go for it and don't make it, then what? Game over man. which is more likely, the 46% play (I actually dont believe that), or the 4-and-3 play? Not 4th and inches mind you, 4th and 3 - NextGen actually says 4th and 4.4 "according to ball-tracking data".

Let's factor in the fact that IF we had 1 positive yard rushing by then, the 3 we needed to pick up would be triple our total on the day. But we didn't, of course. We totaled -1 yard rushing.

No matter. We could then pass it on 4th and 3, with the game on the line, and the opponent knowing we were passing.

NextGen stats says
Conversion probability:

• Folk had a 45.1 percent chance of making a 56-yard field goal, according to our field-goal probability model, which takes into account real-time weather and humidity data.
• If the Patriots had gone for it -- with 4.4 yards to go, as measured by ball-tracking data -- their chances of converting were 52.3 percent.

Week 4's biggest decisions: Bill Belichick hurt Patriots' chances; Colts rewarded for boldness

Should Bill Belichick have been more aggressive on fourth down in the Patriots' loss to Tom Brady and the Bucs? The NGS team breaks down Week 4's biggest decisions.

www.nfl.com

My quibble is, I don't know what O-line their software was plugging in to give us a 52 percent chance of picking up the 4.4 yards (?!!)

Mac was hot at that point, and perhaps they're factoring that in, but just no. What it looks like to me, frankly, is just plugging in a reasonable 4th down percentage, not factoring in that there was no running game, reducing the play to a single dimension.

(I dunno, I wake up to see that guys like NextGen are trying to beat this woulda coulda shoulda drum... I guess from all the gameday/post-gameday comments, it's the natural conclusion. "I woulda shoulda coulda called X because the Pats called Y and it didn't work." I am surprised NextGen's "in on it," because I just don't believe the Pats are some sort of lock to make that conversion.

 

[TheRazorsEdge]

I think one of the most incredible things and not in a good way is how the Patriots are beating them selves with penalties and dumb mistakes.

All the negatives that we can pull from the last 4 weeks can almost all exclusively point to coaching and preparation- minus some underwhelming solo performances.

The coaching staff needs to figure out the oline - fast. It's starting to become painful to watching Mac get blasted literally every drive, multiple times.

 

[PatsWSB47]

When the team is bad, you enjoy what you and. What is the point of being miserable because the team is bad?

They look better...this is good. What else should I do? Whine and cry over the same points for years on end?

I'm not whining and crying. I'm not miserable.