OT: Official 2021 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

[Deus Irae]

If you remove Peyton Manning‘s rookie year (3-13), as Brady and Mahomes redshirted, Manning’s career regular season win pct. would be .735. Brady is .769.

It isn’t inconceivable someone could keep this kind of pace, though Russell Wilson’s “pace” for some of Brady’s records is kind of a punchline these days. He’s still playing at a high level, but he regressed as expected due to his contract and no longer having a historically great defense.

Still quite a few question marks with Mahomes and Chiefs talent when his contract kicks in, but I think his level of success - while not having an elite defense - suggests he’ll remain at a very high Brady-type level.

To me, key questions about Mahomes won't be answered until he doesn't have the cushion of having the best WR in the game along with a top 3TE at the same time. But, until then, the numbers are the numbers.

 

[amfootball]

The winning records just seem impossible to beat. Manning in second with an impressive 186-79. Then you look at Brady and he’s 230-69. 44 more wins and 10 less losses.

The playoff wins speak for themselves. He’s more than doubled Montana.

I still don’t know if anyone will beat the playoff passing records even though it’s gotten easier to pass.The amount of years someone would have to play, along with making consistent deep runs.

The playoff wins is beyond Gretzky. No Qb has even surpassed Montana's 16 and Brady has more than double him.

 

[amfootball]

Mahomes is currently ahead of the Brady wins pace.

I believe Russell Wilson is right on pace too.

 

[Zarozzor]

I mean technically Mahomes and Jackson are on pace but there is almost zero chance they win more games than Brady even with 17/18 game seasons.

Manning played 17 seasons and won at a .702% clip for his career and he’s still 44 wins behind Brady, who likely has a couple of years left to pad his total even more.

The playoff win record is unbreakable as @amfootball said. It would be an incredible feat for someone to even hit 20 playoff wins in the future, and Brady’s sitting at 34 right now.

 

[amfootball]

I mean technically Mahomes and Jackson are on pace but there is almost zero chance they win more games than Brady even with 17/18 game seasons.

Manning played 17 seasons and won at a .702% clip for his career and he’s still 44 wins behind Brady, who likely has a couple of years left to pad his total even more.

The playoff win record is unbreakable as @amfootball said. It would be an incredible feat for someone to even hit 20 playoff wins in the future, and Brady’s sitting at 34 right now.

I agree. I believe Brady's average in the regular season is just under 12 wins a season over 21 seasons. I mean that is monumental in terms of longevity, consistency and health required. I also believe it is insurmountable but give it more of a chance than the playoff wins. I also think with the type of money being earned by QBs (Mahomes getting half a billion out of the gate) will make future QBs less likely to play into their late 30s/early 40s.

 

[amfootball]

To me, key questions about Mahomes won't be answered until he doesn't have the cushion of having the best WR in the game along with a top 3TE at the same time. But, until then, the numbers are the numbers.

I also think his durability is on the table as his biggest inhibitor. His style of play leads to injuries. And his unorthodox arm angles will cause him issues down the road with his shoulder/elbow.

 

[Zarozzor]

 

[sb1]

Brady is really good at these.... wow.

 

[amfootball]

Brady is really good at these.... wow.

It really shows how much he loves it there that he is willing to do this for them.

 

[1960Pats]

Brown is going to surprise a lot of people this season.

Not me.

 

[1960Pats]

Brady vs Brees just doesn't have the same ring to it as Brady vs Peyton.

To be the best you got to beat the best.
Peyton was the NFL and media golden child. He was annointed as the best until Brady surpassed him.

Then it was Rodgers. Since he couldn't overcome Brady as the GOAT. They proclaimed him as the BOAT. The Brady beat down last year kept him in pretender status.

Now it's Mahomes. He has already lost twice to Brady in the playoffs. He's already being proclaimed as the baby GOAT or future GOAT. He needs another beat down in the playoffs this year, hopefully by the Pats.

My point is having a rival or villain makes it more interesting. Having your favorite or protagonist beat them is more satisfying.

Every once in a while I read a post that gets me feeling sentimental about Brady being gone. This is one of those.

Brady is special with a capital S.

 

[Guts]

If you remove Peyton Manning‘s rookie year (3-13), as Brady and Mahomes redshirted, Manning’s career regular season win pct. would be .735. Brady is .769.

It isn’t inconceivable someone could keep this kind of pace, though Russell Wilson’s “pace” for some of Brady’s records is kind of a punchline these days. He’s still playing at a high level, but he regressed as expected due to his contract and no longer having a historically great defense.

Still quite a few question marks with Mahomes and Chiefs talent when his contract kicks in, but I think his level of success - while not having an elite defense - suggests he’ll remain at a very high Brady-type level.

To your Mahomes point he's also been injured three straight years and has missed some time at least a game each year. So that's something to monitor

 

[VectorPrime]

Brady is really good at these.... wow.

May this be the best sequel since Empire Strikes Back.

 

[1960Pats]

If you remove Peyton Manning‘s rookie year (3-13), as Brady and Mahomes redshirted, Manning’s career regular season win pct. would be .735. Brady is .769.

It isn’t inconceivable someone could keep this kind of pace, though Russell Wilson’s “pace” for some of Brady’s records is kind of a punchline these days. He’s still playing at a high level, but he regressed as expected due to his contract and no longer having a historically great defense.

Still quite a few question marks with Mahomes and Chiefs talent when his contract kicks in, but I think his level of success - while not having an elite defense - suggests he’ll remain at a very high Brady-type level.

The biggest question mark is the teams each QB plays. The unbalanced schedules have made the win/loss records more flawed than normal. Which division would be easier for a QB, the NFCE or the NFCW. That could be a four game swing right there.

The problem for PEDton is that he was put into a softer division which allowed him to accrue wins, but then the playoffs showed that he was much worse against the better teams. I think that four of his nine one and dones came as the #1 seed. That's revealing.

 

[1960Pats]

I mean technically Mahomes and Jackson are on pace but there is almost zero chance they win more games than Brady even with 17/18 game seasons.

Manning played 17 seasons and won at a .702% clip for his career and he’s still 44 wins behind Brady, who likely has a couple of years left to pad his total even more.

The playoff win record is unbreakable as @amfootball said. It would be an incredible feat for someone to even hit 20 playoff wins in the future, and Brady’s sitting at 34 right now.

The strange thing is that Mahomes and Jackson might not win more games combined.

Tom Brady is the NYFL's version of Bill Russell.

 

[1960Pats]

I agree. I believe Brady's average in the regular season is just under 12 wins a season over 21 seasons. I mean that is monumental in terms of longevity, consistency and health required. I also believe it is insurmountable but give it more of a chance than the playoff wins. I also think with the type of money being earned by QBs (Mahomes getting half a billion out of the gate) will make future QBs less likely to play into their late 30s/early 40s.

Another thing working against younger QBs is that many of them are coming into the league as better runners than passers. They might not last as long.

The best way to judge a QB is to use winning %. When the league gets to 18 teams (which they will soon enough) 12 wins will be .667. In Brady's first 20 years 12 wins was .750.

 

[Zarozzor]

Another thing working against younger QBs is that many of them are coming into the league as better runners than passers. They might not last as long.

The best way to judge a QB is to use winning %. When the league gets to 18 teams (which they will soon enough) 12 wins will be .667. In Brady's first 20 years 12 wins was .750.

The fact Brady is at .769% over 299 games is incredible.

 

[VectorPrime]

The owners will push through an 18 game regular season and two more teams in the playoffs as fast as the CBA allows which means more wear and tear during the season and no playoff byes. It will be absolutely impossible for anyone to ever replicate Brady’s success ever again.

 

[Deus Irae]

I mean technically Mahomes and Jackson are on pace but there is almost zero chance they win more games than Brady even with 17/18 game seasons.

Manning played 17 seasons and won at a .702% clip for his career and he’s still 44 wins behind Brady, who likely has a couple of years left to pad his total even more.

The playoff win record is unbreakable as @amfootball said. It would be an incredible feat for someone to even hit 20 playoff wins in the future, and Brady’s sitting at 34 right now.

Babe Ruth's home run record will never be broken, but it was
Lou Gehrig's games played record will never be broken, but it was
etc....


Records are made to be broken, because league rules, styles, training, and luck are dynamic rather than static. That doesn't mean that all records WILL be broken (Cy Young's 511 wins is a very strong candidate to be a record that stands forever, given the trends of MLB, for example). It just means that all records COULD be broken. And leagues adding games is one way it happens.

And, when it comes to that, remember that the NFL is looking to jump from 16 to 18, not just 17. So the league is looking to add 2 extra games per year, meaning a 10 year starter at QB will have added an extra 20 games to his record breaking efforts.

 

[Deus Irae]

To your Mahomes point he's also been injured three straight years and has missed some time at least a game each year. So that's something to monitor

That's not accurate. He played all 16 games in 2018. Also, last year, he didn't miss any game to injury. The only game he missed was the final game, after the team had locked up their position and the coach rested players.