Reiss: Pats should Thank Niners for Passing on Mac

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Yahtzee!

I’ve written that I’m ~40 numerous times, detective. How’s that two-year “me against the world” stand on N’Keal Harry coming along?

 

[Wozzy]

I’ve written that I’m ~40 numerous times, detective. How’s that two-year “me against the world” stand on N’Keal Harry coming along?

The next time you tell me how the game has changed I'll assume you mean puberty.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

The next time you tell me how the game has changed I'll assume you mean puberty.

Must get a ton of laughs at bingo night.

 

[Zuma]

I’ve written that I’m 40 numerous times, detective.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Peyton Manning first year, 57% completion, 26:28 TD/INT 71 rating. If Mac has numbers like that then yikes.

Hopefully the fans know enough to be patient with a rookie.

This is why I'm not into rushing Mac to start this year. Rookie QBs facing a lot of new NFL defenses will be a steep learning curve no matter how hard he studies.

Not sure where to put this but the 49ers paying $9m/year to Trey Lance seems real steep for a guy who is a major development project who averaged 150 yards passing a game in college for a college team that ran 70% of the time.

 

[Bill Lee]

Luck was a very good pro quarterback…great at times. It was clear from his talent why he was so highly regarded coming out of college.

The reason this discussion is happening is a Team Bill attempt to show how quarterbacks are largely dependent on their organization.

 

[Bill Lee]

The original discussion here fascinates me, not because Reiss is a brilliant football analyst (ha), but because he's usually quite diplomatic and even-keeled. He takes a slow, somewhat conservative approach to reporting, and rarely sensationalizes anything for clicks despite working for ESPN. I've always found him to be the most well-connected and plugged-in source on the Patriots, if a bit bland. Reading a statement like that from Reiss of all people should make us pause and wonder what he's hearing from the organization. Intriguing stuff -- let's hope it turns out to be true!

Too bad there isn't much room here for such subtlety. Narratives have been constructed, sides must be taken, any new tidbit needs to be evaluated as either for or against the narratives of choice, blazing retorts filled with distortions must be issued, repeat ad infinitum.

 

[sb1]

I think I am more of a Stidham supporter than most, but remember the overplaying the Stidham accolades last year. It is the time of the season for optimism to come out of GIllette. I agree that Reiss resists the overplaying so maybe there is something to this, but there is no way to tell. People repeat the same mistakes over and over all the time, including football reporters.

Just way too early to chirp another team for passing on our guy. I'd like to think the optimism is warranted but time will tell.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

The original discussion here fascinates me, not because Reiss is a brilliant football analyst (ha), but because he's usually quite diplomatic and even-keeled. He takes a slow, somewhat conservative approach to reporting, and rarely sensationalizes anything for clicks despite working for ESPN. I've always found him to be the most well-connected and plugged-in source on the Patriots, if a bit bland. Reading a statement like that from Reiss of all people should make us pause and wonder what he's hearing from the organization. Intriguing stuff -- let's hope it turns out to be true!

I believe it’s generally known that Reiss is mainly plugged in with the Krafts (both Bob and Jonathan) more so than the Patriots coaching staff. So I take this as most likely being leaks from the Krafts. And while they may be speaking the truth here, the Krafts certainly have reason to try to hype Jones. They know the decision to let Brady go ultimately falls on their shoulders. They want to make sure the fans stay in their seats. They also have a history of hyping players who have shown no reason for it.

”He also mentioned 2009 third-round draft choice Brandon Tate as a player who could surprise.”
Extra points from Robert Kraft

It’ll be great when camp opens and pre-season begins so we can judge for ourselves.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

I have no idea how Mac Jones is going to turn out, but the OP's topic and Reiss' article raise an interesting question of etiquette, heretofore, I believe, unasked:

What kind of Thank You Notes did the Patriots owe to the rest of the NFL for passing on Brady? 192, each the same--198 minus six (or so)-- assuming they didn't thank themselves for passing in rounds 1--5? or 31 thank you notes individualized to team team? I wonder if Emily Post has anything to say on the proper social protocols for such an occasion.

"Robert Kenneth Kraft and the entire Kraft Family wish to express their deepest gratitude to Jerral Wayne Jones, Eugenia Jones and the entire Jones family for not selecting Thomas Edward Patrick Brady, Jr., in the Annual Draft of the National Football League, at Madison Square Garden, New York, New York, on April 15 and 16, 2000. As tokens of their gratitude, the Kraft family has enclosed miniaturized replicas of the nine AFC Championship Trophies and Six Lombardi Trophies earned by the New England Patriots Professional Football Franchise under Mr. Brady's leadership."

 

[zydecochris]

This is probably the best reason to be optimistic about it, to be honest. And it hasn't been just Reiss, it's been a lot of people pointing out how quickly he seems to be picking things up, how he and McDaniels see the game the same way, etc. Now, a lot of it could just be reporters (and people working for the team) being starved to see a return to quality QB play. The dropoff from Brady to Newton was STAGGERING last year, so perhaps they're overplaying the Jones accolades because they're falling prey to the same hopeful optimism we are. But on the other hand, it is fairly out of character for the team to intentionally leak overly positive reports, especially about rookies (whose heads they're probably trying to keep small). So, whether tainted by Newton or not, misguided or not, whatever excitement does come out of Foxboro about Jones would seem to be genuine.

I am very excited by having Mac on the Patriots, having watched him carefully at Alabama. I think he has a bright future here and is a perfect match for the Patriots.

But he isn't an improvisational QB that will be making something out of nothing with his legs. Rookie QBs like Kyle Murray and Josh Allen clearly didn't understand NFL offenses or defenses as rookies but they still were fairly successful early on simply because of their exceptional running talent.

IMHO, Mac isn't that type of QB, he will need to know the offensive system inside and out to be successful. He functions best by carefully following a well-coached offensive plan and then following that plan to a "t" while avoiding mistakes (he was remarkably mistake free in college). It is encouraging that he appears to be picking things up quickly, but I don't think he will be ready to start on Game 1. Let's hope Cam does better than expected out of the gate and gives Mac a bit of time to learn.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

I have no idea how Mac Jones is going to turn out, but the OP's topic and Reiss' article raise an interesting question of etiquette, heretofore, I believe, unasked:

What kind of Thank You Notes did the Patriots owe to the rest of the NFL for passing on Brady? 192, each the same--198 minus six (or so)-- assuming they didn't thank themselves for passing in rounds 1--5? or 31 thank you notes individualized to team team? I wonder if Emily Post has anything to say on the proper social protocols for such an occasion.

"Robert Kenneth Kraft and the entire Kraft Family wish to express their deepest gratitude to Jerral Wayne Jones, Eugenia Jones and the entire Jones family for not selecting Thomas Edward Patrick Brady, Jr., in the Annual Draft of the National Football League, at Madison Square Garden, New York, New York, on April 15 and 16, 2000. As tokens of their gratitude, the Kraft family has enclosed miniaturized replicas of the nine AFC Championship Trophies and Six Lombardi Trophies earned by the New England Patriots Professional Football Franchise under Mr. Brady's leadership."

You can also thank Michigan's coach Lloyd Carr for creating phantom question marks about his college career and likely not having his back with NFL coaches during draft chats.

.

 

[patfanken]

I am very excited by having Mac on the Patriots, having watched him carefully at Alabama. I think he has a bright future here and is a perfect match for the Patriots.

But he isn't an improvisational QB that will be making something out of nothing with his legs. Rookie QBs like Kyle Murray and Josh Allen clearly didn't understand NFL offenses or defenses as rookies but they still were fairly successful early on simply because of their exceptional running talent.

IMHO, Mac isn't that type of QB, he will need to know the offensive system inside and out to be successful. He functions best by carefully following a well-coached offensive plan and then following that plan to a "t" while avoiding mistakes (he was remarkably mistake free in college). It is encouraging that he appears to be picking things up quickly, but I don't think he will be ready to start on Game 1. Let's hope Cam does better than expected out of the gate and gives Mac a bit of time to learn.

I wonder if we are all falling into the trap of marginalizing Mac's ability to move after the snap. IIRC didn't he run a 4.7 or 4.8 forty? That isn't that hyper fast but it is FAR faster than Brady's 5.2. I would be interested if anyone had his 3 cone time or if he ran one? Lets remember that Mac had limited chances to scramble in college. He was behind a very talented OL with great WR's and a prolific offense. He didn't NEED to scramble much.

More importantly he will end up in an offense where he will be behind a talented OL, with talented WR's and TE's, with an excellent running attack AND in a prolific PRECISION offense that minimizes the need to scramble and "create". HOWEVER when the need DOES arrive, I think that fans will be surprised to find out that Jones is not exactly deficient in his ability to "create".

 

[Hyped]

I wonder if we are all falling into the trap of marginalizing Mac's ability to move after the snap. IIRC didn't he run a 4.7 or 4.8 forty? That isn't that fast but it is FAR faster than Brady's 5.2. I would be interested if anyone had his 3 cone time or if he ran one? Lets remember that Mac had limited chances to scramble in college. He was behind a very talented OL with great WR's and a prolific offense. He didn't NEED to scramble much.

More importantly he will end up in an offense where he will be behind a talented OL, with talented WR's and TE's, with an excellent running attack AND in a prolific PRECISION offense that minimizes the need to scramble and "create". HOWEVER when the need DOES arrive, I think that fans will be surprised to find out that Jones is not exactly deficient in his ability to "create".

I agree...the kid has some moves. Probably can even dominate Brady on the track right now.

But I am fine if he is a pocket passer.....just as long as he can sense pressure as half good as Brady did...that's one of the greatest things about Brady...the sensing pressure part...shifting inches left/right/up/down in the pocket while keeping eyes down field....

 

[Pats1971]

I wonder if we are all falling into the trap of marginalizing Mac's ability to move after the snap. IIRC didn't he run a 4.7 or 4.8 forty? That isn't that hyper fast but it is FAR faster than Brady's 5.2. I would be interested if anyone had his 3 cone time or if he ran one? Lets remember that Mac had limited chances to scramble in college. He was behind a very talented OL with great WR's and a prolific offense. He didn't NEED to scramble much.

More importantly he will end up in an offense where he will be behind a talented OL, with talented WR's and TE's, with an excellent running attack AND in a prolific PRECISION offense that minimizes the need to scramble and "create". HOWEVER when the need DOES arrive, I think that fans will be surprised to find out that Jones is not exactly deficient in his ability to "create".

Brady if anything proved that running fast is not a must have for a QB. One of the slowest of all time became the greatest of all time. If Mac is out here trying to scramble we are in trouble.

 

[rochrist]

I wonder if we are all falling into the trap of marginalizing Mac's ability to move after the snap. IIRC didn't he run a 4.7 or 4.8 forty? That isn't that hyper fast but it is FAR faster than Brady's 5.2. I would be interested if anyone had his 3 cone time or if he ran one? Lets remember that Mac had limited chances to scramble in college. He was behind a very talented OL with great WR's and a prolific offense. He didn't NEED to scramble much.

More importantly he will end up in an offense where he will be behind a talented OL, with talented WR's and TE's, with an excellent running attack AND in a prolific PRECISION offense that minimizes the need to scramble and "create". HOWEVER when the need DOES arrive, I think that fans will be surprised to find out that Jones is not exactly deficient in his ability to "create".

Yeah, physically he outperformed TB in every category they measure.
40: 4.83 vs 5.30
Vertical: 32" vs 24.5"
3 Cone: 7.03 vs 7.20
They tied in the shuttle.

 

[patfanken]

Yeah, physically he outperformed TB in every category they measure.
40: 4.83 vs 5.30
Vertical: 32" vs 24.5"
3 Cone: 7.03 vs 7.20
They tied in the shuttle.

the 3 cone time is VERY good. Let us not forget that in a age where everyone is looking for the so called "athletic" QB, that Mac Jones (based on the figures you gave) is a VERY athletic football player. Is he one the level as a Josh Allen or jackson, no. But he IS athletic, not that he needs to be in this offense, but he's not the "statue" that some in the media is making him out to be.

 

[scott99]

I was high on mac jones. Still feel he will the best QB in this draft after Lawrence. I don’t care about any other QB. Never wanted Fields.

I’m VERY high on Mac Jones, I stated so many times prior to the draft. He’s just ridiculously accurate and extremely smart. Also a great leader and extremely competitive. And he’s plenty talented, good arm (not a rocket, but can sling it), quick release. Once he feels completely comfortable with this offense, watch out.

 

[zydecochris]

I wonder if we are all falling into the trap of marginalizing Mac's ability to move after the snap. IIRC didn't he run a 4.7 or 4.8 forty? That isn't that hyper fast but it is FAR faster than Brady's 5.2. I would be interested if anyone had his 3 cone time or if he ran one? Lets remember that Mac had limited chances to scramble in college. He was behind a very talented OL with great WR's and a prolific offense. He didn't NEED to scramble much.

More importantly he will end up in an offense where he will be behind a talented OL, with talented WR's and TE's, with an excellent running attack AND in a prolific PRECISION offense that minimizes the need to scramble and "create". HOWEVER when the need DOES arrive, I think that fans will be surprised to find out that Jones is not exactly deficient in his ability to "create".

Ken, all good points, I agree that Mac is an underrated athlete, and, like Drew Brees, a very talented tennis player (which hopefully bodes well for Mac).

....However, as an aside regarding Brady's 5.2 forty, I've railed against the narrative that TB wasn't a fantastic athlete because he didn't run fast (predicted to be a HOF Baseball catcher by the Expo's GM), repeatedly on this Board, I won't repeat it yet again, with some difficulty

I am really speaking more to Mac's training and playing style (at least in college). Mac is a very cerebral player who studies like crazy and is fantastic at doing EXACTLY what the game plan (which, admittedly, was top notch at Alabama) called for. As you say, he wasn't asked to scramble or create at Alabama with his great OL and receivers. Everyone knows that BB emphasizes minimizing turnovers, but Saban at Alabama is even more fanatical about this. I know Mac's Alabama team was super talented, but who else throws 4 interceptions in a season with 40 TDs?

It is conceivable that he could scramble more at NE, if the coaches ask him to, that wouldn't surprise me at all. What WOULD really surprise me is if he goes outside the game plan and/or throws a boatload of interceptions.

 

[rochrist]

I wouldn't expect him to scramble (other than in extreme emergencies), but I do think it bodes well for his ability to move around in the pocket in the same manner Brady does.