[Mod edited title because original was major clickbait] Old story about Bill from 1995

[Kontradiction]

He and the (enemy) world should eternally thank their stars that Berry started Eason.

Their derisive taunt that Pats fans believe if Grogan started 'We had a chance' is typically nonsensical because it would have in fact increased our chances astronomically (no exaggeration). You can fill a page with all the consequences - all positive for us, and negative for the Bears - yes with them still a heavy favorite. Tangible and intangible advantages acquired by us, all if Berry wasn't stupid.

It's like somebody today going on about how Tom Brady had the potential to be better than Joe Montana if only somebody'd drafted him, but instead he never made an NFL team.

We would have gotten curb stomped by that Bears team all the same.

 

[Deus Irae]

We would have gotten curb stomped by that Bears team all the same.

The game was lost when Lin Dawson went down.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

We would have gotten curb stomped by that Bears team all the same.

We'll never know. But you believe whatever you and most everyone else choose to believe in your world.

It's the same if Brooks went ahead and benched Craig against the Russians and they got blown away, as expected.

Maybe if Dent slammed Steve into the turf separating his shoulder on the first series...but the likelihood of that happening is very, very low.

Oh, but you know the Bears were going to start the cheap shots the longer the game remained close, especially in the second half.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

The game was lost when Lin Dawson went down.

I disagree. Eason was so vastly inferior I felt it was a lost cause when he was announced as the starter. I would have felt similarly if Belichick started
Bledsoe against the Rams.

I did not have practical hope for us - unless Eason got hurt very early.

Grogan was so vastly different - and vastly superior - there is no way to quantify it.

Dawson, indeed, was critical to blocking for the run, and also was a threat to make receiving plays like he did against the Raiders.

Grogan starting changes the entire complexion of the game, the environment leading up to it, the atmosphere, the mental and psychological condition of both teams, and more.

I do not believe the Dawson injury occurs with Grogan in there. No logical basis for that belief, but definitely whatever misfortune might have befallen them in the game, the Patriots would have handled it along with everything else much better with Grogan.

Think about those stupid headbands coming out as the game progressed into the third quarter, with the Patriots still ahead...

Makes me think of those balloons Jack Kent Cooke had in the rafters of the Forum in '69, that never came down.

 

[Deus Irae]

I disagree.

Dawson was the player who was going to give the Patriots QB his "safe" throw, which is what the Bears' loss against the Dolphins had exposed about that defense.

And blaming the injury on it being Eason rather than Grogan is ridiculous (But, hey, if we can't be ridiculous about a broken sports heart from 35 years ago, what can we be ridiculous about? Hell, Raiders fans still lose their minds because the right call was made in the 2001 postseason.).

 

[RobertWeathers]

Dawson was the player who was going to give the Patriots QB his "safe" throw

Huh? Hell of an assertion based on one pass play.

, which is what the Bears' loss against the Dolphins had exposed about that defense.

Wrong. MIA went 20 personal (3 WRs Duper, Clayton, Moore and 2RBs Bennett/Nathan for blitz pickup/run) and beat the Bears CB/DB in man coverage.

Get your facts straight.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Dawson was the player who was going to give the Patriots QB his "safe" throw, which is what the Bears' loss against the Dolphins had exposed about that defense.

And blaming the injury on it being Eason rather than Grogan is ridiculous (But, hey, if we can't be ridiculous about a broken sports heart from 35 years ago, what can we be ridiculous about? Hell, Raiders fans still lose their minds because the right call was made in the 2001 postseason.)

Steve threw a different ball, a much better one in my opinion. I think Lin's biggest value was as a blocker - with Grogan calling the plays, more runs would be called. As I said, it's not exactly logical, but to me it's not ridiculous at all. Nor is my belief that our defense would have been better able to concentrate and convert one or more of the several should have picks McMahon threw in the first quarter. The team won three straight previous road playoff games by getting turnovers and keeping Eason from being exposed. I've noticed that quarterbacks like Grogan, Montana and Brady have a calming effect on the whole team, not just the offense. Partly because they can see that the offense is doing their best to avoid putting their defense in a bad position.

Not exactly logical, maybe not provable. JMO.

 

[Deus Irae]

As I said, it's not exactly logical, but to me it's not ridiculous at all.

Yes, it's ridiculous. You admit it's not logical, so just drop that argument. When you've got a bias that's this nuts, you've got to step back.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Yes, it's ridiculous. You admit it's not logical, so just drop that argument. When you've got a bias that's this nuts, you've got to step back.

Good.

So Grogan on the first series in good field position calls and throws a sideline fade intended for Dawson.

Got it.

 

[Simpelton]

The Bears in '85 were indeed good, the best team in the regular season and deservedly favored to go all the way based heavily upon the NFC's recent domination. But the Bears were also buffoons. They lacked character (Singletary & Payton were outliers). The media adoration added heaps of pressure on them, similar to what the Mets brought upon themselves later that year in the World Series, which the Red Sox wound up blowing. He and the (enemy) world should eternally thank their stars that Berry blew it by starting Eason.

Their derisive taunt that Pats fans believe if Grogan started 'We had a chance' is typically nonsensical because it would have in fact increased our chances astronomically (no exaggeration). You can fill a page with all the consequences - all positive for us, and negative for the Bears - yes with them still a heavy favorite. Tangible and intangible advantages acquired by us, all if Berry wasn't stupid.

It's like somebody today going on about how Tom Brady had the potential to be better than Joe Montana if only somebody'd drafted him, but instead he never made an NFL team.

I'm not so sure. On paper yeah it would have, but Grogan by 1985 was no spring chicken, and he was just as capable of bad games as Eason was, especially if we relied on him too much. That's why Eason was there in the first place.

 

[Deus Irae]

Good.

So Grogan on the first series in good field position calls and throws a sideline fade intended for Dawson.

Got it.

At this point, you're not even trying to think. You're just tossing nonsensical **** against the wall. I mean, you're actually blaming the specific notion of a called fade pass for Dawson's injury. Let's just move on.

 

[Joker]

I'm not so sure. On paper yeah it would have, but Grogan by 1985 was no spring chicken, and he was just as capable of bad games as Eason was, especially if we relied on him too much. That's why Eason was there in the first place.

hey nutbaggy...you sure as shyt do NOT know WTF you're talking about.I attended every game that season and Grogs was the reason we made it to the Bowl.I did not know anyone then that wanted Crampain Tony to start that Super Bowl. Lot 17 on Rt1....same tailgate with the same 50 plus season ticket holders from the mid 70's through the 80's. Stop making up stupid shyt.

 

[Simpelton]

It was 50 50 in the last few years of Grogan whether he was gonna put HIMSELF out of action. He was always good but his body betrayed him by 1985. Eason was there for a reason. Grogan was always good when he could play. It was that caveat that kept Eason employed.

IIRC Grogan was only able to go for less than half of the Pats' games in 85. In all of the games Grogan started Eason played, either in relief or playing roles we didn't want Grogan playing anymore. Hard not to play a healthy guy who played a big role in getting the team where they were, over the corpse of Steve Grogan

Steve Grogan started 6 games in 1985. Eason started 10, and played in 16 games. Grogan was constantly coming up gimpy and needing eason to take a play or two. He just didn't have much left.

 

[Joker]

It was 50 50 in the last few years of Grogan whether he was gonna put HIMSELF out of action. He was always good but his body betrayed him by 1985. Eason was there for a reason. Grogan was always good when he could play. It was that caveat that kept Eason employed.

IIRC Grogan was only able to go for less than half of the Pats' games in 85. In all of the games Grogan started Eason played, either in relief or playing roles we didn't want Grogan playing anymore. Hard not to play a healthy guy who played a big role in getting the team where they were, over the corpse of Steve Grogan

Steve Grogan started 6 games in 1985. Eason started 10, and played in 16 games. Grogan was constantly coming up gimpy and needing eason to take a play or two. He just didn't have much left.

Grogs started 6 games and WON ALL SIX before he BROKE HIS LEG!! Jeezus krist STFU...you are sterno crazy. Were you even born then?

 

[DarrylS]

This article was written in 2015, about an incident that happened in the 90's.. for some reason there was a need to resurrect it. Boring sports news day??

When my google news comes up it still highlights this article, guess there may be some anti BB sentiment out there!! From the Article:

“I confronted the G.M. at the time, what the hell was his name, Lombardi? He’s coming down the hallway and I said, ‘Hey man, I need my money. My wife was just in a wreck and I don’t want to deal with insurance.’ He looks at me and says, ‘Well, maybe we’ll pay you, maybe we wont.’ And I lost it. I just snapped. I grabbed him by the neck and threw his head against the wall and said, ‘You’re gonna pay me my money.” Then I started realizing what I was doing and I’m looking around the hallway to see if there were any cameras. I stopped hitting him and he slid down the wall.”

 

[fnordcircle]

Eason > Grogan

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

hey nutbaggy...you sure as shyt do NOT know WTF you're talking about.I attended every game that season and Grogs was the reason we made it to the Bowl.I did not know anyone then that wanted Crampain Tony to start that Super Bowl. Lot 17 on Rt1....same tailgate with the same 50 plus season ticket holders from the mid 70's through the 80's. Stop making up stupid shyt.

I'm trying to think of any bad games Grogan had after 1980 when they made him go out there in the mud at Candlestick on two bad knees and he threw six picks. Seriously.

Steve was healthy and available from the start in '85 and he got in there just in time to bail us out vs. rookie Bruce Smith and the Bills and get us in position for the playoffs, including two wins at home over the Jets and Dolphins ( their last one until we beat them in the AFCCG) which few other quarterbacks in the history of the NFL could have orchestrated. It amazes me how people pretend Brady threw zero picks all last year. Grogan was healthy and available for the Super Bowl, and all of '86 when he won every time he was called upon.

In '88 it was Flutie who bailed us out, saving the season vs. the Colts and then won six more games (should have been 7 but the refs took it away in the Hoosier Dome) and this time he didn't get hurt so Berry benched him, resulting in exactly what would have happened if Belichick put Bledsoe back in in '01.

Those three road playoff wins in '85 must have at or near the greatest rushing/turnover ratio advantage in such a stretch in history.

Starting Eason in Super Bowl XX is among the stupidest decisions in sports history. Which was repeated in Denver the next year and again in '88. Finally getting rid of Eason and Berry was merciful relief, not taken advantage of because Kiam then let Flutie go to Canada and had no quarterback for three seasons.

Flutie would have filled the stands, and did not lose in Foxborough or the Meadowlands and played very well in his former home state of Florida. That's 10 games out of 16 every year you can expect to have a great chance of winning.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Has Jim McMahon ever really left the year 1985?

His DeLorean missed the lightning spike at the clock tower.

 

[scott99]

Who gives a **** about a has been overrated QB who lucked onto a buzz saw team with a legendary defense ? Talk about begging to stay relevant. Haven’t heard from him since MTV played music videos.

 

[BobDigital]

I don't think this makes BB a 'cheater'. Many coaches and GMs do the same thing. It's just the way the NFL and pro sports work. As for Bill being a liar... I think it's possible. Everyone is a liar to an extent. Did BB perhaps over state/imply the amount of games McMahon would be on the team for? Sure. Did McMahon perhaps hear what he wanted to hear? Sure. Did BB have the intention to keep his word, but that other complications came up? Sure. These things tend to have the truth somewhere in the middle.

The bottom line is this. If you're in the NFL or businessses in generally, don't trust someone's word or promise unless you are 100% sure about it, and even then know that things can change. McMahon should have just moved on. He had absolutely no relationship with Bill, and it wasn't like he couldn't have signed with another team as a back up. While Bill probably gave something akin to his word (or assurance), McMahon should have left and tried to latch on elsewhere, he probably could have. That's on him.