The cost if we traded up to 11 for Fields

[ToonPatriot]

I wonder about this. After all, given the article about the Patriots saying "We're good" to everyone, it would have been interesting to see them both there at 15. The Patriots were like, we're not trading up when we don't rate the players highly enough. The other variable is what would happen if Fields were the last of the 5 on the board? I tend to think they would have taken Fields as well at 15. They just didn't rank these two highly enough to trade for them.

If the original question was how much does BB actually value the QB position, then i'm not sure we're any further forward after FA and the draft.

I get the impression that had the Saints as rumoured or WFT traded to 14 instead of the Jets, or Chicago taken Jones and Vikings then sticking and taking Fields, Bill would have shrugged, grabbed a defensive player (maybe Collins) and carried on. We may or may not have a Davis Mills-type project pick instead.

Whether you prefer Jones or Fields, there's a huge gap between those guys and Mills, so I for one am just relieved the board fell the way it did.

 

[BUSTAMOVE]

I wonder about this. After all, given the article about the Patriots saying "We're good" to everyone, it would have been interesting to see them both there at 15. The Patriots were like, we're not trading up when we don't rate the players highly enough. The other variable is what would happen if Fields were the last of the 5 on the board? I tend to think they would have taken Fields as well at 15. They just didn't rank these two highly enough to trade for them.

You could be spot on.
I think with COVID making it a hard year to evaluate they were not trading picks for anyone
Fields would have been a little easier to evaluate playing multiple seasons
when I kept hearing Rumors of the Patriot’s trading up for Fields then my guess is they did not want Fields and were putting out the traditional Pats smokescreen to cover for who they really wanted. Or it could have been the Agent putting out the rumors to increase Fields value.
Shannahan knew Fields through his camp and he did not want him.
We will never know with the “wink wink nod nod” atmosphere at Gillette

 

[captain stone]

I kind of see a parallel to this draft when we're panicking wanting to move up the board but he's reading his opponents with a perspective that we're just not privy to.

I wish Bill had remembered that before he made the trade-up for Barmore.

 

[captain stone]

I think it’s 100% worth sacrificing a second round pick to get the quarterback prospect you prefer, but I‘m not convinced they preferred Fields over Jones.

I don't think they did.

They might not have, but I'm not sure how much they thought of Jones either...

 

[Lagaffe_07]

They might not have, but I'm not sure how much they thought of Jones either...

Enough to take him at 15.

 

[luuked]

Just a reminder breer is the same guy that said pre-draft that Pats & Panthers had ground work for a trade. Yet now he contradicts himself saying they never had any intention. So if they had no intention why would have they even done ground work?

Panthers, Patriots Have Done 'Some Groundwork' for Potential Trade

Could the Panthers move outside of the top 10?

www.si.com

You do realize that those two reports are not two mutually exclusive. What happens pre-draft where you make plans for some scenarios and how the evening then actually unfolds are totally separate things.

They likely had a very high grade on some player(s) that then went in the top 6 and so any ground work with the Panthers became moot.

 

[RobertWeathers]

They might not have, but I'm not sure how much they thought of Jones either...

Huh? They drafted him at 15. Clearly the really liked him.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

Huh? They drafted him at 15. Clearly the really liked him.

I would add that if Fields and Jones were available at 15, I think they would have still take Jones. The guy fit exactly what they are looking for in a QB.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I would add that if Fields and Jones were available at 15, I think they would have still take Jones. The guy fit exactly what they are looking for in a QB.

Agree 100%

Like a great poker player they let the cards come to them.

 

[captain stone]

"New England didn’t even call the New York Giants when the 11th pick came on the clock"

Here's your answer (if you can believe the media).
Patriots reportedly passed on first-round trade, even if another team took Mac Jones

Given the quotes in that article about being OK with missing on Jones if that's what it came down to, it seems the Patriots stuck to their grade. If they thought either Fields or Jones was a franchise / Pro Bowl level QB, they obviously would have traded up.

To me the decision to stand pat says a lot about what the Patriots think of either Jones or Fields.

If Chicago took Jones, it's quite possible the Patriots take Fields if he dropped to 15.

Yep...What these moves or lack thereof tell me - if the reports are true that is - is that they don't think Jones is all that either...which kinda doesn't exactly give me the warm n fuzzies...

 

[captain stone]

The giants would surely take the offer that has more value overall. They got two firsts and 2 4ths for their first from the bears. Our offer would have had top be in that ballpark obviously. They moved up nine, we were moving up 4. Who knows what the value of next years would have been but we had to beat that value. Also given how deep WR was this year maybe they weren't concerned about moving that far back.

Yep...There was a very clear distinction between the top group of pass-catchers (Pitts, Chase, Smith & Waddle) and Everybody Else; and Gettleman decided - correctly, as it turned out - that he could acquire the 4th-best of them (Toney) just as easily at 20 as he could have at 15.

 

[captain stone]

This is as good of a spot as any to drop this thought off:

We were extremely fortunate that Mac Jones fell into our laps...I was hoping for Fields myself and wanted us to trade down when Mac Jones was the best QB remaining. Then we saw Trask/Mills/Monds all go early in the 3rd (or late 2nd as well?)....there was no way we could have traded back in that range....BB was not going to burn #46 on those QB's...and we would have been sweating it out...maybe we would have to give up 2,3,4,4 for a combination of a late 2nd/early 3rd.....

Mac Jones and Barmore....fantastic...two of the most pro-ready guys in this draft, IMO.

Barmore is Nowhere Near pro-ready...In fact he's the Least pro-ready DT in this class.

 

[captain stone]

I don't think even a 2nd round pick would have done it. The Giants got a 1st next year and 2 later picks and likely still got the player they wanted by moving down. Why would they take a 2021 2nd pick from Pats. I think it would have taken a heck of a lot more than 46. Belichick made a brilliant and gutsy move to stay put and grab Jones.

I wish he had shown the same brilliance & guts when it came to the Barmore pick.

 

[captain stone]

We might have got the best guy in this draft for qb. Mac Jones is better than ole long hair and sissy boy

 

[captain stone]

Enough to take him at 15.

Huh? They drafted him at 15. Clearly the really liked him.

But not enough to trade even a little bit to ensure that they had "their man."

If the rumor is true that they had a trade-DOWN with another team agreed-upon if the player the other team wanted was still available at 15, then what does that tell us?

 

[captain stone]

The Most I would've offered the Vagiants for #11 would've been 15, 122, 188 & next year's 3rd-rounder (or maybe our 2nd-rounder if I had to)...
Would that have been enough to dissuade Gettleman to trade with da Bears and convince him to trade with us instead?

 

[Hyped]

Barmore is Nowhere Near pro-ready...In fact he's the Least pro-ready DT in this class.

Why are you so down on Barmore? The kid ran stunts and etc...at Bama...which is exactly what we do here. It isn't a huge step up in the pros for DT's or guys in the trenches like it is for QB/WR/TE's.... the only thing that is different is that everybody else is faster/stronger than what you faced in college and you need to go 100% on every snap.

 

[mike_usagisan]

But not enough to trade even a little bit to ensure that they had "their man."

If the rumor is true that they had a trade-DOWN with another team agreed-upon if the player the other team wanted was still available at 15, then what does that tell us?

I think they thought Mac was worth the 15 pick and not a penny more. But they’re also prepared to move on if he wasn’t there. They don’t fall in love with players. They are open to groups of players. And they are definitely prepared for all contingencies.

So, maybe if Mac had been gone, they would have pulled the trigger and traded down.

But the 15th pick is one of the highest picks in the Belichick era. So I think you can read it that they really liked Jones, didn’t want to spend future picks and were prepared for the consequences of waiting until 15 to make their pick.

I don’t think you can say that they didn’t like Mac. That’d be like saying they didn’t like Mayo when they traded down from 8 to 10 to take him (or whatever the actual picks were). They just feel very strongly about maximizing value.

 

[captain stone]

Why are you so down on Barmore? The kid ran stunts and etc...at Bama...which is exactly what we do here. It isn't a huge step up in the pros for DT's or guys in the trenches like it is for QB/WR/TE's.... the only thing that is different is that everybody else is faster/stronger than what you faced in college and you need to go 100% on every snap.

Barmore's relatively young & inexperienced, and allegedly has enough coachability/maturity issues that he might need to be baby-sat for at least his rookie season...And he's not exactly what we need at DT right now, which is a Beef Curtain...This dude likes to penetrate gaps on his way into the backfield where the glory is, not to bang at the LOS where the blood & guts are...and we have enough of that type here already...

And I am vehemently opposed to trading UP - at the cost of not one but an unprecedented TWO of our 4th-rounders - just for the opportunity of taking this risk...And let's face it, he has Boom Or Bust written ALL over him...

What I find curious, though not completely surprising, is how many people here are praising Bill - correctly so - for showing restraint by waiting for Mac Jones, but not criticizing him for his utter lack of it regarding Barmore...And if anyone was worth a trade-up to secure his acquisition, it wasn't Christian Barmore...

 

[captain stone]

I think they thought Mac was worth the 15 pick and not a penny more. But they’re also prepared to move on if he wasn’t there. They don’t fall in love with players. They are open to groups of players. And they are definitely prepared for all contingencies.

Of course they do.