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The cost if we traded up to 11 for Fields

2021 Patriots Season:
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Sep 12th

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Hyped

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Barmore's relatively young & inexperienced, and allegedly has enough coachability/maturity issues that he might need to be baby-sat for at least his rookie season...And he's not exactly what we need at DT right now, which is a Beef Curtain...This dude likes to penetrate gaps on his way into the backfield where the glory is, not to bang at the LOS where the blood & guts are...and we have enough of that type here already...

And I am vehemently opposed to trading UP - at the cost of not one but an unprecedented TWO of our 4th-rounders - just for the opportunity of taking this risk...And let's face it, he has Boom Or Bust written ALL over him...

What I find curious, though not completely surprising, is how many people here are praising Bill - correctly so - for showing restraint by waiting for Mac Jones, but not criticizing him for his utter lack of it regarding Barmore...And if anyone was worth a trade-up to secure his acquisition, it wasn't Christian Barmore...

Thanks for replying.

To me....two 4's isn't a steep price to trade up from #46 to #38. By the 4th...we are drafting guys that are comparable to guys going in rounds 5-7. We would have traded those 4's to probably upgrade to the top of the 3rd/back of the 2nd to take Mills/Monds/Trask if we missed out on Jones anyway, IMO.

As for Barmore's playing style...he may penetrate gaps...but man watching some of his film...the guy literally runs through linemen sideways along the LOS. Also, Barmore has two gapping experience....

I think he's well worth the 38th pick of the draft and then some...I had him going in the back half of round 1 myself. I think he is what Dominque Easley should have been if not for injuries....
 

patfanken

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Barmore is Nowhere Near pro-ready...In fact he's the Least pro-ready DT in this class.
that's not exactly true.... but not false either. It is safer to say that he is not pro ready as it pertains to becoming a professional athlete. He is not pro ready as it pertains to having a complete set of skills at the DT position.

But his is an ENORMOUSLY gifted athlete who seemingly can do a lot of things to disrupt an offensive line by himself. OSU, who had a number of OLmen drafted couldn't block him.

So here's the pluses and minuses of Christian Barmore.

a. Elite athlete for his size
b; played better and more consistently as the season went on. (did he finally start to get it)
c. He can be a 4-3 penetrator (Adam Butler only bigger, faster and more explosive). Or a 3-4 DE (maybe not this year, but in the future)

a. clearly has questions about his commitment to football and following the structured environment necessary to being a successful pro. (bedard)
b. Doesn't have a consistent history of successful playing to his potential (literally only about the last 6 games of this past season. None of the questions concerning him seem to be about whether he's a bad kid or ganged up like AH. Just a matter of WI:L: he work at it to the level that will get him to his potential.

BTW- to that end, I would LOVE to see the the Pats bring back Willie McGinest AND Rischard Seymour for TC to specifically work with Barmore and the other DT's and have Willie work with the OLB's and edge guys. These are guys who have massive creditability with rookies as well as a wealth of knowledge to share.
 

BaconGrundleCandy

NFL Expert / Tone Setter
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Barmore's relatively young & inexperienced, and allegedly has enough coachability/maturity issues that he might need to be baby-sat for at least his rookie season...And he's not exactly what we need at DT right now, which is a Beef Curtain...This dude likes to penetrate gaps on his way into the backfield where the glory is, not to bang at the LOS where the blood & guts are...and we have enough of that type here already...

And I am vehemently opposed to trading UP - at the cost of not one but an unprecedented TWO of our 4th-rounders - just for the opportunity of taking this risk...And let's face it, he has Boom Or Bust written ALL over him...

What I find curious, though not completely surprising, is how many people here are praising Bill - correctly so - for showing restraint by waiting for Mac Jones, but not criticizing him for his utter lack of it regarding Barmore...And if anyone was worth a trade-up to secure his acquisition, it wasn't Christian Barmore...
Couldn't you argue he's exactly what we need?

We have Guy, Adams, Anderson, God ... even Big Bill Murray and Count on Carl Davis for run defense.

I agree Barmore needs a lot of work but he's gifted enough to make an impact this year imo. Plus I actually think he has tremendous upside as a pass rusher bc he has so much room to grow there as well as a run defender. Rn he wins almost solely on talent. If he hits, he'll hit big!

I'm guessing the logic was this and I've said this before. The class isn't stacked and you're betting & trying to coach up anyone you take bc of those circumstances. Barmore has a ton of talent & traits so let's get & work with the best. Concerning he's so gifted and leaving Bama so early but you have to think Saban signed off.

Idk I like pick. I thought he was good value.
 
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50-yard-line

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Only Patriot fans could whine and grumble about them scoring the kid who was BY FAR the highest-rated DT in the entire draft at #38 in the 2nd Round.

Good god. I understand that some people love to wallow in misery, or grumble and growl to pretend they're smarter than NFL coaches, scouts, and GMs, but come on. And Bedard overstates any and every qualm about the guy because he's Bedard, and has gone full on Felger.
 

captain stone

Hall of Fame Poster
If you waited - correctly - for Mac Jones, you sure as sh!t can wait for Christian Barmore too. Period.
 
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Ivan

Hall of Fame Poster
This is as good of a spot as any to drop this thought off:

We were extremely fortunate that Mac Jones fell into our laps...I was hoping for Fields myself and wanted us to trade down when Mac Jones was the best QB remaining. Then we saw Trask/Mills/Monds all go early in the 3rd (or late 2nd as well?)....there was no way we could have traded back in that range....BB was not going to burn #46 on those QB's...and we would have been sweating it out...maybe we would have to give up 2,3,4,4 for a combination of a late 2nd/early 3rd.....

Mac Jones and Barmore....fantastic...two of the most pro-ready guys in this draft, IMO.

Agree completely. The Patriots were fortunate that the Jets wanted to move up for Vera-Tucker, as that essentially blocked the Saints from moving in front of them for Jones, and getting the top DT in the draft in the 2nd round is unheard of. Great draft, great free agency, great off-season, now they have to put it together on the field, and no one does a better job of that than Belichick. My only real question is how long Belichick will stick with Newton, I’m betting 7 games.
 

Ivan

Hall of Fame Poster
Why are you so down on Barmore? The kid ran stunts and etc...at Bama...which is exactly what we do here. It isn't a huge step up in the pros for DT's or guys in the trenches like it is for QB/WR/TE's.... the only thing that is different is that everybody else is faster/stronger than what you faced in college and you need to go 100% on every snap.

He’s down on him because Belichick picked him, period.
 

Sam Bam Cunningham

Practice Squad Player
Im having difficulty understanding what you're saying here.

Of course the Giants had leverage.

But why would they require more to go lower?

That makes no sense. The Giants would prefer to pick higher, especially since all the blue chippers would be gone after 15-16.

Why would we have to give the Giants a better offer than the Bears? I can't get your logic.
The Giants might have preferred to get the 2022 first round pick from the Bears and were content to go lower because they knew they could get the receiver they wanted at 23.
Even though they could have moved to 15 with the Pats, they would have only got a 2nd and a 4th in addition to the 15th....with the bears they get a 2022 first rounder and it could be a high first rounder if the bears suck.
 

borg

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2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
Only Patriot fans could whine and grumble about them scoring the kid who was BY FAR the highest-rated DT in the entire draft at #38 in the 2nd Round.

Good god. I understand that some people love to wallow in misery, or grumble and growl to .........
The region thrives on misery, it's in the population's DNA. The Pilgrims and Puritans were miserable no matter where they called home.
And then......................something unrelated

 

VJCPatriot

Pro Bowl Player
Barmore's size and athleticism reminds me of Stephon Tuitt whom we passed on in favor of Easley in 2014. OOF. [To make it worse we passed on Demarcus Lawrence, but let's just talk about the comparable guy in terms of physical size.]

Tuitt: 6'5, 304 lbs, 10" hands, 35" arms, 83" wingspan, 4.92 40.
Barmore: 6'4, 310 lbs, 10" hands, 35" arms, 82" wingspan, 4.98 40.

Barmore could provide an elite interior pass rush presence that the Patriots haven't had since the likes of Richard Seymour. [6'6 299, 4.95 40 combine measurements]
Like Richard, eventually we might kick Barmore out to DE.
Again these are very high comps. But he could develop into a similar player if he ever reaches his ceiling.
 

captain stone

Hall of Fame Poster
The Giants might have preferred to get the 2022 first round pick from the Bears and were content to go lower because they knew they could get the receiver they wanted at 23.
Even though they could have moved to 15 with the Pats, they would have only got a 2nd and a 4th in addition to the 15th....with the bears they get a 2022 first rounder and it could be a high first rounder if the bears suck.

Yeah no doubt the Vagiants were in the WR business during the first round, and as soon as the last of the top 3 was gone, they correctly ass-umed that #4 wouldn't go for a while, so they maximized their pick's value...I definitely would not have offered either our 2022 1st-rounder OR our 2021 2nd-rounder (#46), never mind both of them, to move up to #11.
 
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Ivan

Hall of Fame Poster
Only Patriot fans could whine and grumble about them scoring the kid who was BY FAR the highest-rated DT in the entire draft at #38 in the 2nd Round.

Good god. I understand that some people love to wallow in misery, or grumble and growl to pretend they're smarter than NFL coaches, scouts, and GMs, but come on. And Bedard overstates any and every qualm about the guy because he's Bedard, and has gone full on Felger.
Yep.
 

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