DRAFT BGC 2021 Pre-Draft/Patriot-Type Prospect(s) thread

[DaBruinz]

AVT is the only player listed above who's worthy of #15, at least for us...DE Kwity Paye, LB/ED Zaven Collins & ED Jason Oweh are much, Much better fits there...And drafting JOK would make the Uncle Dugg pick look even worse than it already does.

You are, quite literally, the only person who says that the Dugger pick was bad. Everyone else acknowledges that it was a very good pick and that Dugger will be the replacement for Phillips and Chung. Still better than the guy you've been touting who gave up 6 TD last year

 

[Lansdowne]

There is a pretty high chance that the following are gone in the first 14 picks: Lawrence, Wilson, Jones, Lance, Fields, Chase, Waddle, Smith, Pitts, Surtain, Horn, Sewell, Slater. Then for arguments sake, lets say Parsons also goes. That might be the worst case scenario with the top pass catchers, DBs and QBs all gone. Who would people take at 15 in this case if we couldn't trade down:

Darrisaw
Vera-Tucker
Newsome
Owusu-Koramoah
Bateman
Farley
or someone else?

Think I would go for Owusu-Koramoah as a modern defensive chess piece but Vera-Tucker is the most sensible boring choice given he can play both OT/OG at a high level.

I think Smith has the best chance to fall given his weight concerns. and I'd hoover him up at 15. The Giants seem to want a pass rusher so that could cause someone to drop. Could also be a slot for a trade up too - they would probably feel more comfortable taking Paye at 15.

I’d be in favor of a slight trade back but assuming there were no suitors, I’d consider Darrisaw in that spot of you want a LT. He was the best in the nation last season out of those who played. Vera-Tucker is a better run blocker than pass protector, probably best suited to play guard, and I think we’re fine in that spot for at least the next three years between Onwenu and Mason. If it has to be defense, I’d say go with Collins.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

You are, quite literally, the only person who says that the Dugger pick was bad. Everyone else acknowledges that it was a very good pick and that Dugger will be the replacement for Phillips and Chung. Still better than the guy you've been touting who gave up 6 TD last year

Just a reminder this poster vehemently argues that the Patriots have been excellent at drafting wide receiver.

.

 

[Sfpat]

The article doesn’t say that. It speculated that depending upon who is on the board the cowboys may consider trading down and the bears would be a candidate. Nothin g in the article says there are trade talks going on

This is a water is wet story. For the right price, every team is willing to either trade up or down. Make an offer

 

[zimmy]

Owusu-Karamoah is a special player in my view. Yes we have Dugger, but JOK is a proper LB who can legitimately cover WRs and TEs. He's obviously not great against the run but can do almost everything else. He'll play on all four downs and has pro bowl potential, like a Troy Polamalu or more recently Jeremy Chinn - and we know how much BB values 4 down players. I think Dugger and JOK can play together and make you so flexible/multiple, especially against these new ages TEs and RBs. I think he's the best LB in the draft and might even be the top defensive player.

I wouldn't be against a trade down of 5 spots however and try and get Rashod Bateman. I must be in the minority on Zaven Collins, he doesn't seem to play that physical to me. I also don't see how he plays much at all this year, the same with any DE we might draft. I could see a WR, CB, OT, or JOK all playing this year.

 

[Bourne Again Christian]

Owusu-Karamoah is a special player in my view. Yes we have Dugger, but JOK is a proper LB who can legitimately cover WRs and TEs. He's obviously not great against the run but can do almost everything else. He'll play on all four downs and has pro bowl potential, like a Troy Polamalu or more recently Jeremy Chinn - and we know how much BB values 4 down players. I think Dugger and JOK can play together and make you so flexible/multiple, especially against these new ages TEs and RBs. I think he's the best LB in the draft and might even be the top defensive player.

I wouldn't be against a trade down of 5 spots however and try and get Rashod Bateman. I must be in the minority on Zaven Collins, he doesn't seem to play that physical to me. I also don't see how he plays much at all this year, the same with any DE we might draft. I could see a WR, CB, OT, or JOK all playing this year

I’m really starting to be a fan of Kellen Mond if we look at everything BB wants in his QB this would seem to be his guy.
He’s played ball longer than Lance he’s played against top competition In the SEC played 4 years. Has the size and athletic Talent you like I think this is our guy in a trade down in the first or in the second.

 

[Ring 6]

This is a water is wet story. For the right price, every team is willing to either trade up or down. Make an offer

Exactly. But the articles headline and the post suggested a deal between the Cowboys and bears was being hammered out.

 

[Ring 6]

I’m really starting to be a fan of Kellen Mond if we look at everything BB wants in his QB this would seem to be his guy.
He’s played ball longer than Lance he’s played against top competition In the SEC played 4 years. Has the size and athletic Talent you like I think this is our guy in a trade down in the first or in the second.

Level of competition and how long you have played are not positive attributes, they are context to the analysis.
A 4 year started without top skills doesn’t surpass a younger player with better skills.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Owusu-Karamoah is a special player in my view. Yes we have Dugger, but JOK is a proper LB who can legitimately cover WRs and TEs. He's obviously not great against the run but can do almost everything else. He'll play on all four downs and has pro bowl potential, like a Troy Polamalu or more recently Jeremy Chinn - and we know how much BB values 4 down players. I think Dugger and JOK can play together and make you so flexible/multiple, especially against these new ages TEs and RBs. I think he's the best LB in the draft and might even be the top defensive player.

After last year's issues with stopping the run, that might be a problem for him.

 

[Lansdowne]

The following is a list of NFL QB’s coached by Jimbo Fisher:

Dameyune Craig
Josh Booty
Rohan Davey
Matt Mauck
JaMarcus Russell
Christian Ponder
EJ Manuel
Jameis Winston
and soon to be, Kellen Mond

Yeah

 

[zimmy]

After last year's issues with stopping the run, that might be a problem for him.

He makes his fair share of negative plays against the run. Obviously at his size he struggles to disengage when a lineman gets him but his quickness allows him to slip past blockers. I don't see it being as big an issue with the improvements to the front 7 - Hightower, Van Noy, Judon and the new DL guys. You are also not drafting him to do that. Teams now spend 65%+ of the time in nickel or dime. He can play inside as a traditional line backer when needed but can also cover legitimate receivers and tight ends.

We really struggled this year as we had an obvious run defence and pass defence so teams could key so easily off the personnel. JOK would never come off the field and allows you to disguise so much. Plus if Pitts ends up in Miami, he'd be a great chess piece to match up.

Anyway, I'm really intrigued by what he could bring to the D.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

The following is a list of NFL QB’s coached by Jimbo Fisher:

Dameyune Craig
Josh Booty
Rohan Davey
Matt Mauck
JaMarcus Russell
Christian Ponder
EJ Manuel
Jameis Winston
and soon to be, Kellen Mond

Yeah

NFL success or failure is not the responsibility of the college coach.

We drafted Davey. Two others were first overall picks. That's great for a college coach to put on a resume! Despite poor NFL success, Winston has had some exceptional games, but also super questionable turnovers. I'm not sure this list is as big of an indictment on the coach as you're indicating.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

The following is a list of NFL QB’s coached by Jimbo Fisher:

Dameyune Craig
Josh Booty
Rohan Davey
Matt Mauck
JaMarcus Russell
Christian Ponder
EJ Manuel
Jameis Winston
and soon to be, Kellen Mond

Yeah

Not to mention Mond's been texting with McD. Cross off Mond and Trask entirely from the draft board.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Owusu-Karamoah is a special player in my view. Yes we have Dugger, but JOK is a proper LB who can legitimately cover WRs and TEs. He's obviously not great against the run but can do almost everything else. He'll play on all four downs and has pro bowl potential, like a Troy Polamalu or more recently Jeremy Chinn - and we know how much BB values 4 down players. I think Dugger and JOK can play together and make you so flexible/multiple, especially against these new ages TEs and RBs. I think he's the best LB in the draft and might even be the top defensive player.

I wouldn't be against a trade down of 5 spots however and try and get Rashod Bateman. I must be in the minority on Zaven Collins, he doesn't seem to play that physical to me. I also don't see how he plays much at all this year, the same with any DE we might draft. I could see a WR, CB, OT, or JOK all playing this year.

KOC absolutely not. A LB who can't stop the run ?? How about a QB who throws picks, a WR who can't get open, and corner who can't cover. Also we already have a fast guy in Uche. Zaven Collins won the exact same national linebacker award that Micah Parsons got. He's literally exactly what the Patriots like in a big 3-4 linebacker. He can stop the run, set the edge, cover, and blitz, and is smart. He's exactly what we need, unless Baltimore drafts him first.

.

 

[Lansdowne]

NFL success or failure is not the responsibility of the college coach.

We drafted Davey. Two others were first overall picks. That's great for a college coach to put on a resume! Despite poor NFL success, Winston has had some exceptional games, but also super questionable turnovers. I'm not sure this list is as big of an indictment on the coach as you're indicating.

Fisher got the most out of them under his watch. But it does show that his QB’s don’t perform once they make it to the pros, and fair or not, they are products of his coaching. Same way Belichick in the past has wanted guys coached up by people he knows and trusts (Schiano in Rutgers, Ferentz in Iowa, Saban in Alabama, Meyer in Florida, etc.) because those players are products of their coaching. The same way Lincoln Riley is praised for three of his college QB’s being Heisman candidates under him (two of them winning it [Mayfield and Murray], the third a runner-up [Hurts]), and going on to be starters in the NFL today. How much of Riley’s coaching prepared them for the pros can be debated but his resume already looks better than Fisher’s when it comes to QB’s.

Winston is the lone exception in that he has hung around and shown some of that potential from time to time, and even he is someone I would want no part of because he is a turnover machine. I don’t trust Mond will have any more success than what Winston has shown.

 

[DaBruinz]

After last year's issues with stopping the run, that might be a problem for him.

I actually don't think it will be an issue for him. It's not like he has a ton of missed tackles. Also, with the improvement of our D-line in terms of run defense and the addition of Hightower, I expect that JOK is exactly the type of player that BB has been looking for since the Jamie Collins experiment was not terribly successful.

 

[fightingirish595]

Which "pocket passers" have come in the league that deserved that praise but didn't get it?

NFL teams will spend a first on you (Rosen, Haskins) but pure pocket passers haven't exactly been tearing up the league. I think the issue is the prospects.

Which is a whole other story bc those guys just aren't the ones coming up through HS/College.

I'd also asked wheres Mac Jones upside? Sure he could improve on a few things but where is the upside? Let's play it out even further ... 49ers take him at 3. Can you envision him being better than Stafford, Murray or Wilson?

Anyone can answer if they want. I'd love to hear any genuine opinions.

I wouldnt spend a top 20 pick on mac jones

 

[fightingirish595]

NFL success or failure is not the responsibility of the college coach.

We drafted Davey. Two others were first overall picks. That's great for a college coach to put on a resume! Despite poor NFL success, Winston has had some exceptional games, but also super questionable turnovers. I'm not sure this list is as big of an indictment on the coach as you're indicating.

Jimbo is a GREAT coach

 

[Lansdowne]

Thor Nystrom of NBC Sports Edge (previously known as Rotoworld) put out his big board, 500 players deep with NFL player comparisons as well. Pretty interesting stuff.

Thor500: Nystrom's BIG NFL Draft Board | Rankings

We present the Thor500, Thor Nystrom's 500-player big board with comps

www.nbcsports.com

He’s updated with a breakdown by position:

Thor's 2021 NFL Draft position rankings | Rankings

Thor Nystrom drops his 2021 NFL Draft position rankings -- covering more than 600 prospects -- with comps and RAS scores

www.nbcsports.com

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I wouldnt spend a top 20 pick on mac jones

So many insiders are dying on the Mac Jones Hill it's amazing. I like Jones a lot but a lot of over-thinking on Shanahan's part if he goes that way imo. Only explanation is that he's in love bc I've heard this is all on him. And from the looks of how the process unfolded Shanahan was like Littefinger. Orchestrating all these workouts. Having prospects work out in private with his boys. Scripted plays at workouts. Rumors flying about 3 different QB's. He's played this perfectly so far. We'll see how he goes in a few days.