Trade a 2nd For Jimmy Now; This is Not a Long Term Commitment

[Deus Irae]

Yes, if Jimmy had no injury history, he would be worth more than a 1st.

Based on what? Outside of a team panicking over a lost starter, what reasoning would get you to think JAG is worth more than a 1st round pick?

 

[Froob]

Who else is actually interested in Jimmy? Like who are we competing with?

 

[Froob]

Yes, if Jimmy had no injury history, he would be worth more than a 1st.

Eh..would he though? I feel like he's not that special honestly. He's decent.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Eh..would he though? I feel like he's not that special honestly. He's decent.

Maybe not more than a 1st but if you look at his # as a starter hes 24-8, averaging 250 yards a game w a 2:1 TD/INT ratio, 67% comp and QB rating of 100.

If he was durable and putting up 4000yd/27TD/100 Qb rating seasons one over the other you could justify a 1st.

 

[mgteich]

Eh..would he though? I feel like he's not that special honestly. He's decent.

I think that 6 teams would give a 1st for someone with Jimmy's skills, stats, age and experience, if he were healthy,

 

[davidjc]

You have it backwards.

Jimmy is worth a ~2nd rounder BECAUSE of his injury history.

..and the ~ means when assigning value, let's qualify that.

Is Jimmy worth a high 2nd (30s) or a low 2nd (50s)? Big difference.

Well I disagree. I don't think anyone is "injury prone". And I don't see where the way Jimmy plays necessarily means he will be getting injured all the time. If he were a running QB then maybe. There is good reason to believe Jimmy goes most of the rest of his seasons in good health. And like I said if you are trading for him you are betting on that being the case.

No matter how you look at it, Jimmy is worth much more than a 2nd round pick this year alone. For starters the 49ers are going to play Jimmy this year. And when healthy he is a good to very good starter QB. The 49ers are in a great spot, they can draft a rookie high in the draft who may or may not be a bust but still have Jimmy G who is a great QB when healthy.

If you think you can pry Jimmy from the 49ers with a single second round draft pick you might be delusional. The only thing working against Jimmy is his high salary. But this is no different from paying a first round rookie QB rookie dollars while keeping your veteran on the team until the rookie is ready.

Next year could be a different situation if the rookie QB looks to be ready to start and Jimmy has a bad to mediocre season. But as it stands now I would be highly surprised to see the 49ers deal Jimmy for a 2nd rounder. I know people like to say it as to create some kind of sense of hope that Jimmy can be obtained easily but It's not really going to be the case.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Well I disagree. I don't think anyone is "injury prone". And I don't see where the way Jimmy plays necessarily means he will be getting injured all the time. If he were a running QB then maybe. There is good reason to believe Jimmy goes most of the rest of his seasons in good health. And like I said if you are trading for him you are betting on that being the case.

No matter how you look at it, Jimmy is worth much more than a 2nd round pick this year alone. For starters the 49ers are going to play Jimmy this year. And when healthy he is a good to very good starter QB. The 49ers are in a great spot, they can draft a rookie high in the draft who may or may not be a bust but still have Jimmy G who is a great QB when healthy.

If you think you can pry Jimmy from the 49ers with a single second round draft pick you might be delusional. The only thing working against Jimmy is his high salary. But this is no different from paying a first round rookie QB rookie dollars while keeping your veteran on the team until the rookie is ready.

Next year could be a different situation if the rookie QB looks to be ready to start and Jimmy has a bad to mediocre season. But as it stands now I would be highly surprised to see the 49ers deal Jimmy for a 2nd rounder. I know people like to say it as to create some kind of sense of hope that Jimmy can be obtained easily but It's not really going to be the case.

So you don't think players who are injured frequently are not injury prone? What do you call it then we a player as BB says is "consistently unavailable?" That doesn't impact their trade value?

...and salary has a lot to do with trade value. If a player is no longer a fit in the team's financial model they are more inclined to move him at a discount and take less comp in return because they want him off their books as opposed to a player on a team-friendly deal.

 

[BTTA]

At the risk of my first post on this forum being a completely wrong take, I still think at some point Stidham will be a permanent QB1 for this team in 2021.

This shouldn't go unacknowledged.
First, welcome.
Second, I commend your courage. But keep your head on a swivel.
Third, the odds are very good that it is a completely wrong take.
Fourth, if he becomes QB1 because he's excellent, and the Pats don't invest further in QB's, that's the best possible outcome for the team, so why not?

 

[RobertWeathers]

This shouldn't go unacknowledged.
First, welcome.
Second, I commend your courage. But keep your head on a swivel.
Third, the odds are very good that it is a completely wrong take.
Fourth, if he becomes QB1 because he's excellent, and the Pats don't invest further in QB's, that's the best possible outcome for the team, so why not?

Thats a bold first post.

 

[skinnydog]

Based on what? Outside of a team panicking over a lost starter, what reasoning would get you to think JAG is worth more than a 1st round pick?

Jimmy is probably worth more than most of our recent first round picks, though admittedly most were late first round.

 

[Ring 6]

Yes, if Jimmy had no injury history, he would be worth more than a 1st.

Depends upon how he played in all those games he missed.

 

[davidjc]

So you don't think players who are injured frequently are not injury prone? What do you call it then we a player as BB says is "consistently unavailable?" That doesn't impact their trade value?

...and salary has a lot to do with trade value. If a player is no longer a fit in the team's financial model they are more inclined to move him at a discount and take less comp in return because they want him off their books as opposed to a player on a team-friendly deal.

Well I don't think there is anything with JG that dictates he will necessarily have injuries into the future. None of his injuries are out of the ordinary and can be chalked up to a run of bad luck. I just don't have the expectation he will continue to be injured and it's always possible for a QB to adjust his game style to avoid injuries or for the coaches to work on protection and schemes.

There is nothing with JG that indicates any of his past injuries will hinder him significantly. When we say injury prone, you can either mean that in the past tense or in the future tense. I just don't see any reason to necessarily extrapolate that into the future. Many QBs have had missed seasons over their careers. It happens when it happens. With JG it's happened early on and it does not mean it has to continue like that unless you feel certain injuries he has had will create a recurring problem. I do not think this is the case.

The only argument you can make is that JG is not trying to hard to come in off IR. Unlike say Brady who would play injured often. But in any case it would be hard to imagine JG being traded for a second round pick. It's almost silly. The 49ers would be insane to give away their proven starter for anything less. I feel certain they want the new QB they draft to not be forced to play immediately and also to give JG some competition for the starter role.

In any case they can trade JG or the new Rookie after 2021. JG is a good QB when healthy and the idea that he will be perpetually injured for his entire career is a little premature and quite unlikely, unless it was a recurring injury, High ankle sprain? Not too concerning in the long run.

 

[RIpats88]

Problem is Jimmy is worth more than a 2nd round pick. If you are trading for him you are already betting on him being healthy the full season. Otherwise you are not going to do it. I know a lot of people like to make it all about his injury history expecting that to result in big discounts but it's fairly unrealistic to expect the 49ers to let go of Jimmy for a single 2nd round pick. Jimmy has proven he is the real deal when healthy. At the very least at the level of Kirk Cousins. When the Pats traded to 49ers for a second round pick that was considered a poor deal for the Pats when Jimmy was still of a more unknown entity.

A few years later and Jimmy has established he is capable of being one of the few QBs who can take a team to the Super Bowl. And there is reason to believe he won't always be so injury prone. Personally I think Jimmy is worth a mid to low tier first round pick.

Is he though? He got a 2nd rounder in 2017 and his stock has slid ever since. Why would a team give more when he's getting released in a year for nothing

 

[RobertWeathers]

Well I don't think there is anything with JG that dictates he will necessarily have injuries into the future. None of his injuries are out of the ordinary and can be chalked up to a run of bad luck. I just don't have the expectation he will continue to be injured and it's always possible for a QB to adjust his game style to avoid injuries or for the coaches to work on protection and schemes.

There is nothing with JG that indicates any of his past injuries will hinder him significantly. When we say injury prone, you can either mean that in the past tense or in the future tense. I just don't see any reason to necessarily extrapolate that into the future. Many QBs have had missed seasons over their careers. It happens when it happens. With JG it's happened early on and it does not mean it has to continue like that unless you feel certain injuries he has had will create a recurring problem. I do not think this is the case.

The only argument you can make is that JG is not trying to hard to come in off IR. Unlike say Brady who would play injured often. But in any case it would be hard to imagine JG being traded for a second round pick. It's almost silly. The 49ers would be insane to give away their proven starter for anything less. I feel certain they want the new QB they draft to not be forced to play immediately and also to give JG some competition for the starter role.

In any case they can trade JG or the new Rookie after 2021. JG is a good QB when healthy and the idea that he will be perpetually injured for his entire career is a little premature and quite unlikely, unless it was a recurring injury, High ankle sprain? Not too concerning in the long run.

There are quarterbacks who are durable. Brady, Ryan, etc. represent this demographic.

There are quarterbacks who are oft-injured who can't stay on the field.

Seeing how Jimmy has been knocked out for the season and significant time 3 of the 5 times he was named starter and has missed 1/2 of his potential games, that's oft-injured and his durability is questionable. If you want to label it bad luck or call out how each injury is dissimilar in nature (shoulder, knee, ankle) I would agree with you. Can he change his playing style? Unsure.

 

[RIpats88]

There are quarterbacks who are durable. Brady, Ryan, etc. represent this demographic.

There are quarterbacks who are oft-injured who can't stay on the field.

Seeing how Jimmy has been knocked out for the season and significant time 3 of the 5 times he was named starter and has missed 1/2 of his potential games, that's oft-injured and his durability is questionable. If you want to label it bad luck or call out how each injury is dissimilar in nature (shoulder, knee, ankle) I would agree with you. Can he change his playing style? Unsure.

Sam bradford was another guy like this. Talented always injured. Fans saying it was just bad luck.

You also question are these injuries Jimmy could've played through. Wiggins hinted they were not happy with the shoulder injury in 2016 and the high ankle sprain shut him down for a full season.

Hard to imagine brady hasn't played through similar injuries or worse every year

 

[Deus Irae]

I don't think anyone is "injury prone".

Of course some people are "injury prone", by definition.

Definition of prone​

(Entry 1 of 2)


1: having a tendency or inclination : being likely

Definition of PRONE


We really should have Ian create a thread dedicated to storing certain basic refutations of things that are repeatedly claimed despite incontrovertible evidence to the contrary.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Sam bradford was another guy like this. Talented always injured. Fans saying it was just bad luck.

Agree. It's always something.

You also question are these injuries Jimmy could've played through. Wiggins hinted they were not happy with the shoulder injury in 2016 and the high ankle sprain shut him down for a full season.

Yea I dunno. I'm not going to question a football player's toughness but I will question their ability, desire, tolerance to play hurt.

Hard to imagine brady hasn't played through similar injuries or worse every year

Brady is not human. We all know this.

 

[mgteich]

Agree. It's always something.

Yea I dunno. I'm not going to question a football player's toughness but I will question their ability, desire, tolerance to play hurt.

Brady is not human. We all know this.

desire and mental toughness are often related. Just BTW, I believe a lot of players would not have come back when Cam did. Many would think that he should have taken more time to receiver from COVID. Many would have simply asked to be put on IR.

Jus




Just

 

[Respectful49erFan]

Who else is actually interested in Jimmy? Like who are we competing with?

The other team that is mentioned as a possible trade partner for JG is Chicago.

 

[Mack Herron]