PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

Trade up now or wait


I’m being sarcastic. Sticking up for BB. The only thing that bugs me is the second round db’s
Yeah his second round DB history has a lot of misses. Out of boredom I’m going to list them:

Eugene Wilson (turned out fine, became starting free safety for two of our titles)

Terrence Wheatley (bust)

Darius Butler (Patriots bust, made a solid career for himself after leaving)

Patrick Chung (great Patriots career, put it together his second stint with the team)

Ras-I Dowling (bust)

Tavon Wilson (see Darius Butler)

Jordan Richards (bust, gross overdraft, pretty sure he was projected for the 7th round that year, drafted for his football smarts but didn’t translate on the field beyond special teams)

Cyrus Jones (bust)

Duke Dawson (bust)

JoeJuan Williams (looking like a bust so far)

Kyle Dugger (he’s no Antoine Winfield Jr. but I’m optimistic in him)
 
Yeah his second round DB history has a lot of misses. Out of boredom I’m going to list them:

Eugene Wilson (turned out fine, became starting free safety for two of our titles)

Terrence Wheatley (bust)

Darius Butler (Patriots bust, made a solid career for himself after leaving)

Patrick Chung (great Patriots career, put it together his second stint with the team)

Ras-I Dowling (bust)

Tavon Wilson (see Darius Butler)

Jordan Richards (bust, gross overdraft, pretty sure he was projected for the 7th round that year, drafted for his football smarts but didn’t translate on the field beyond special teams)

Cyrus Jones (bust)

Duke Dawson (bust)

JoeJuan Williams (looking like a bust so far)

Kyle Dugger (he’s no Antoine Winfield Jr. but I’m optimistic in him)
Malcolm Butler and JC Jackson have mitigated a couple of those.

Give Dugger some time. Winfield Jr is better now. He’s a smaller safety with an injury history. I like him. But, can see why we didn’t pick him.
 
Is that Ryan Leaf bagging my groceries out here in Coeur d’Alene?
 
Darius Butler (Patriots bust, made a solid career for himself after leaving)
Like Chung, Bill tried to make him something he wasn't. Butler struggled covering outside #1 WR's. Made a decent career playing out of the slot.
 
Malcolm Butler and JC Jackson have mitigated a couple of those.

Give Dugger some time. Winfield Jr is better now. He’s a smaller safety with an injury history. I like him. But, can see why we didn’t pick him.

don’t forget jon Jones. Great free agency find out of auburn, I think.
 
don’t forget jon Jones. Great free agency find out of auburn, I think.
Funny how the best DB's recently are the ones Bill didn't draft. I'd like for Bill to take at least a one year break from drafting DB's in rounds 1-3.
 
Funny how the best DB's recently are the ones Bill didn't draft. I'd like for Bill to take at least a one year break from drafting DB's in rounds 1-3.

amen brother! He can sign UDFA defensive backs and use rounds 1-3 for some quality linemen.
 
amen brother! He can sign UDFA defensive backs and use rounds 1-3 for some quality linemen.
Other then the obvious QB need, I am fine with Belichick using the first four rounds of the draft for OL's and on the defensive front 7.

That means that other methods need to be used to secure defensive backs, special teamers, TE's, WR's and RB's.

Of course, that means spending big bucks for some defensive backs like McCourty and Gilmore.
 
I’m concerned about the jump in competition. Wentz did it though.
So has Allen. Choking in the playoffs last year aside, of course.
 
Virtually every professional disagrees with you.
I don't think anyone knows for sure, but if you need a QB as badly as the Pats do then you take a chance.
 
Cousin,
Had a Ruben sandwich with some pickles and chips, plus a mug of coffee for lunch. I am ready for observations here for fun and amusement only.
Ring.....With confidence there are many on the site who have evaluation tools at least as good as your present NFL "professionals". This is a direct result of items like you tube, internet exposure, resources like PFF and the culmination of ideas from thousands of player studies. Ten years ago?.....not so much.
17%.....keep that in mind.
The average success rate for a NFL Team in a gestation period of a fair three years or seasons is 17%
The personnel men get paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to make these determinations. If their performance was in Major League baseball they would be cut at a batting average of.170.
So roughly two to three players are on the same Team that Drafted them at the end of three seasons. The categories of Draftee success are Pro Bowl, full time starter, valued back up or various special Team designations. The rest are waived, cut, traded or just leave the game. Most of the failure is these "professionals" trying to fit a square peg in a round hole and the pick does not work. Many iffy players stick on the roster to fill holes but should not be looked at other than cannon fodder.
The irony is the worse the Team, the more the Draft choices are kept to fil immediate needs. Like the Pats and Steelers in the past, only a few picks made it.The Packers and Chiefs would be an example today.

Ring, I am going to go out on a limb here and say you could probably do a reasonable Draft. Is that a fair statement?

Raise your hands if you think that you on this site could not have had more Drafting success within the last five year time period over the Patriots (see Monte and Nick C.). This is not all on Bill. He is better cat obtaining existing present NFL talent than the Draft.

DW Toys
I have to say Cousin that I like your football opinions but not your diet choices as much. You don't seem to eat enough fish. ;)
IMHO, the NYFL draft is a crap shoot, even for those who spend their lives studying players. That's even more true for someone like myself, who spends no time watching the NCAA.
 
I don't think anyone knows for sure, but if you need a QB as badly as the Pats do then you take a chance.
No one knows for sure but there is a strong consensus in their opinions.

Look here’s the thing. There really are 2 ways to get a franchise QB. One is to just get lucky and stumble into one. That is so rare it can’t possibly be a plan.
The other is to draft one in the top half of the first round.
If you choose not to draft one in the top half of the first round you either get lucky or won’t win.
If you choose to draft one in the top half if the first round the consequences are that you overdraft/overpay compared to other positions and you risk that the guy could bust.
It’s the cost of doing business. Those that stubbornly call the cost of doing business stupid and refuse to pay end up out of business.
There seems to be a groundswell on this board that any attempt to acquire a QB must be guaranteed, without risk and cheap and it is impossible for that to happen. When we had the GOAT it was easy to ride that high horse. Now that we gave the worst QB room in the nfl we just can’t afford that blind spot.
 
No one knows for sure but there is a strong consensus in their opinions.

Look here’s the thing. There really are 2 ways to get a franchise QB. One is to just get lucky and stumble into one. That is so rare it can’t possibly be a plan.
The other is to draft one in the top half of the first round.
If you choose not to draft one in the top half of the first round you either get lucky or won’t win.
If you choose to draft one in the top half if the first round the consequences are that you overdraft/overpay compared to other positions and you risk that the guy could bust.
It’s the cost of doing business. Those that stubbornly call the cost of doing business stupid and refuse to pay end up out of business.
There seems to be a groundswell on this board that any attempt to acquire a QB must be guaranteed, without risk and cheap and it is impossible for that to happen. When we had the GOAT it was easy to ride that high horse. Now that we gave the worst QB room in the nfl we just can’t afford that blind spot.
Brady, Rodgers, Russel Wilson, Lamar Jackson, Prescott, Cousins, Carr and Jimmy G are qb’s you didn’t have to trade up for.


Hurts and Lock could become legit qb’s.

That’s 10!!
 
Funny how the best DB's recently are the ones Bill didn't draft. I'd like for Bill to take at least a one year break from drafting DB's in rounds 1-3.

It's because Bill's scouting methods are used when we pick up undrafted free agents and we hit big doing this. Malcolm Butler, JC Jackson, Jon Jones, etc. Our CB/WR drafting is absolute garbage ever since 2004 when the CB/WR draft evaluation process was overhauled by McDaniels and Caserio. It makes no sense. It goes after guys based on their height which is idiot backwards logic. First and foremost should be whether a guy can cover for a CB and whether a guy can get open for a WR. We've blown a dozen picks focusing on a guy's height or specific combine drill. And it's no coincidence the Pats drafted great during 2009-2012 (O'Brien, Reese) and 2001-2004 (Weiss, Pioli). The periods from 2013-now and 2005-2008 we sucked at drafting because we have an OC who thought Tim Tebow was a 1st round QB. This team is so screwed when Belichick leaves.

.
 
Brady, Rodgers, Russel Wilson, Lamar Jackson, Prescott, Cousins, Carr and Jimmy G are qb’s you didn’t have to trade up for.


Hurts and Lock could become legit qb’s.

That’s 10!!
Rodgers and Jackson were first round picks.
Cousins garoppolo and Carr have won nothing

Hurts and lock stink.

So you are hoping for a miracle that has happened twice in 21 years. Great plan.
 
Rodgers and Jackson were first round picks.
Cousins garoppolo and Carr have won nothing

Hurts and lock stink.

So you are hoping for a miracle that has happened twice in 21 years. Great plan.

We have an offensive coordinator who traded up in the first round for Tim Tebow. Absolutely no trade up , with horrible talent evaluators sitting in the war room talking to Bill. In fact do not even consider offense at all on day1, it will be a bust pick. Go try and get Harry, Michel, Wynn to perform first.
 
I have to say Cousin that I like your football opinions but not your diet choices as much. You don't seem to eat enough fish. ;)
IMHO, the NYFL draft is a crap shoot, even for those who spend their lives studying players. That's even more true for someone like myself, who spends no time watching the NCAA.
Ah...but Cousin,
I had smoked salmon (lox) and cream cheese with capesr, tomatoes and red onions on a pumpernickel bagel for breakfast this morning! Had some orange juice and a mug of hot coffee I am still working on.
Hopefully that counts...ha
I try to temper my ideas from some of the best evaluators you might not even have heard of like the Joel Buchsbaum school of Draft evaluation thought before the Kipers of the world.. You can't be emotional when selecting players, which we all are sometimes. As Jimmie Johnson said recently, "We used to just Draft the best players on the board"(paraphrase).
I think the twenty year success of the Patriots has ruined their Draft thinking. As a poster said to me, we always Drafted toward the bottom of the Draft. That is well true. Lest mistakes eyeballed at pick #32 than pick #1. The gasp factor is lower.

We are the kings of the Trade down as well. Well you trade down and trade down and some times, you have to use those chips. We also own a certain arrogance to the Draft and how we pick over scraps in free agency. Sometimes they work.

But this year, after numerous years of Draft failures by Monte and Nick C. (notice what Nick is doing in Houston with scrap heap picks in FA), Bill has tried a new approach to build his Team to a more credible version. That in itself is an admission that the Pats Drafts have been wrong.

Keep in mind the gestation period of a Draft pick being at least three years to determine success. Is Bill even caring about three years from now when he will be 72? He is building a win now and dominate in 2022 Team. Look at how many Defense front seven players he has signed or resigned to rebuild. Look how he has chose receivers who are mid to short area guys to help the QB be it Cam or a Rookie. The two TE's, resigning one of the best RB' receievers out of the backfield in White and picking up Bourne who's pick arched some eyebrows here, but his route running is an important factor.

He's got 10 picks. Maybe 5 plus at least one UDFA make the Team. Moving up in the Draft is the best venue. If not you are tossing bthose picks aside.

I've done some homework and Indy and Seattle have only two picks in the first three rounds and no first rounders. I think Seattle has only three total picks. But they both have second rounders. I am picking up the phone and doing a Draft pick package with a bunch of selections, to gain another second Round pick. Perhaps a 3rd , two 4ths and 2 6ths for pick #56. We would have a 1rst, 2 2nds, a 4th, a 5th and a 7th.

Thoughts?
DW Toys
 


Wednesday Patriots Notebook 5/1: News and Notes
TRANSCRIPT: Jerod Mayo’s Appearance on WEEI On Monday
Tuesday Patriots Notebook 4/30: News and Notes
TRANSCRIPT: Drake Maye’s Interview on WEEI on Jones & Mego with Arcand
MORSE: Rookie Camp Invitees and Draft Notes
Patriots Get Extension Done with Barmore
Monday Patriots Notebook 4/29: News and Notes
Patriots News 4-28, Draft Notes On Every Draft Pick
MORSE: A Closer Look at the Patriots Undrafted Free Agents
Five Thoughts on the Patriots Draft Picks: Overall, Wolf Played it Safe
Back
Top