Trade up now or wait

[Ring 6]

How did waiting let the niners jump in. The highest we could move up was 4. Moving to 2 and 3 were out of the question. You have to be of the belief that 4 of the 5 qbs will work out before making that deal.

We could have traded to 3

 

[Ring 6]

If he just went two more years back, he could include himself by massively reaching for Mark Sanchez.

I think Sanchez was 5th not top 3

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

We could have traded to 3

You saw what the niners paid to do that? How much more were the phins going to want to trade within their division?

 

[Ring 6]

Lawrence, Wilson, 1 of Lance/Fields are already off the board

That leaves 1 of Lance/Fields who will be gone by 8 or 9

So that means either trading up to 4, 5 , 6 or 7

4- how much will the Falcons want to move back 11 spots? too much, Panthers & Broncos are both top 10 and could very well take a QB, so it would be much easier for Falcons to trade back 5-6 spots and pick up a couple of draft picks. Now you could probably argue Falcons probably wouldn't trade with the Panthers

5- same situation with the Falcons even though I think there is less chance the Bengals trade out

6- they just moved up to this spot, so I doubt they are trading out

7- the only chance but again Pats at a disadvantage if Broncos or Panthers want a QB and their guy is still there.



and don't say Mac Jones, just another product of Alabama's stacked offense just like Tua.




I'd rather trade for Garoppolo, Minshew or Mariotta than draft Mac Jones.

I don’t understand. First you say Jones isn’t worthwhile then you say draft him?

 

[venecol]

How did waiting let the niners jump in. The highest we could move up was 4. Moving to 2 and 3 were out of the question. You have to be of the belief that 4 of the 5 qbs will work out before making that deal.

Not only that but going from #12 to #3 cost three 1st + 3rd; what do you think the cost will be from #15 to #4. Even if ATL puts aside giving a franchise QB to the "28-3" team, why wouldn't they do this with another team that keeps them in the top 10.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I think Sanchez was 5th not top 3

Yeah I overlooked that part, thought it was teams that traded up significantly to get a guy.

 

[Ring 6]

You saw what the niners paid to do that? How much more were the phins going to want to trade within their division?

I don’t think division matters.
if you think you are winning a trade you are better off trading in your division to weaken your opponent.
You don’t think Miami would want to take away our next 3 picks?
that dont trade in the division thing is an old wives tail.

 

[TheRainMaker]

You saw what the niners paid to do that? How much more were the phins going to want to trade within their division?

Maybe Flores would've cut his old boss a deal.

 

[BTTA]

c'mon the logic is clear

SF is paying Jimmy $25M a year and decided that he just isn't worth it as their future QB. Poster here believe that SF is very wrong. The details are really unimportant.

The details aren't unimportant to me. I'm curious about other people's views, and the diversity in them.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

I don’t think division matters.
if you think you are winning a trade you are better off trading in your division to weaken your opponent.
You don’t think Miami would want to take away our next 3 picks?
thay dint trade in the division thing is an old wives tail.

ok say both us and SF come to Miami with the same offer. Who’s are they taking and why?

 

[venecol]

You saw what the niners paid to do that? How much more were the phins going to want to trade within their division?

You're talking to someone that has nightly conversations with Belichick in front of the mirror.

 

[Ring 6]

ok say both us and SF come to Miami with the same offer. Who’s are they taking and why?

Well it wouldn’t be the same deal.
SF picks 3 spots higher and Miami has an opinion of which teams 22 and 23 1s are going to be higher.

if they think they are fleecing the team they are trading with they would trade in the division.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

You're talking to someone that has nightly conversations with Belichick in front of the mirror.

It’s pointless to continue a debate if the person doesn’t believe a trade within the division (especially one involving multiple 1s) that you wouldn’t have to pay an additional tax compared to a team in a different conference.

 

[JMC00]

I don’t understand. First you say Jones isn’t worthwhile then you say draft him?

Where did I say draft him? My entire post was in response to that poster saying if they don't take a QB in the 1st then there is no point in watching the team for the next 2 years. Which my response in a hypothetical manner was the top 4 QBs should already be considered off the board unless Pats can come up with some deal to get up to 4. Hell you might even consider Mac Jones already off the board before 15, i'm sure some team is gonna reach for him. Some rumblings that 49ers might actually have been the team to do it.

tl;dr Newton/Garoppolo/Mariotta/Minshew + the player picked at #15 + potentially drafting a guy like Mond/Trask/Mills in a later round >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mac Jones at #15 or higher

 

[Patsgofor4]

Niners just set the market. Three firsts and a third to Atlanta for the #4 pick?

 

[Ring 6]

Where did I say draft him? My entire post was in response to that poster saying if they don't take a QB in the 1st then there is no point in watching the team for the next 2 years. Which my response in a hypothetical manner was the top 4 QBs should already be considered off the board unless Pats can come up with some deal to get up to 4. Hell you might even consider Mac Jones already off the board before 15, i'm sure some team is gonna reach for him. Some rumblings that 49ers might actually have been the team to do it.

tl;dr Newton/Garoppolo/Mariotta/Minshew + the player picked at #15 + potentially drafting a guy like Mond/Trask/Mills in a later round >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mac Jones at #15 or higher

I misread your last statement I though you said get one of them stiffs/injury prone AND draft jones.
I think you are dismissing the value of the qb position, the depths of the hole we have there and how to fix it. Newton and trask sets us back at least 2 years, probably a lot more.

 

[Ring 6]

It’s pointless to continue a debate if the person doesn’t believe a trade within the division (especially one involving multiple 1s) that you wouldn’t have to pay an additional tax compared to a team in a different conference.

By all means show me evidence.
Yes I understand a lot of people think that. That doesn’t mean it’s correct. Belichick traded Bledsoe within the division.
If you are the team making the trade and you think you win the trade why wouldn’t you weaken your division as well.

If Flores thinks that trading #3 for 3 1s and a 3 is a great deal then why wouldn’t he want to weaken his division opponent while he’s at it and take their 3 1s?

If you think that would be a stupid move for the patriots to make them if you were Miami why would you stop them from making it?

By the way why would you think you are “debating”. It’s not a contest. We are giving opinions and trying to understand each other’s thinking.

 

[Ring 6]

Could be more could be less. Depends on the buyer and seller. If no one else likes the 4th guy as much as the 3rd they won’t offer as much. Atlanta can only get what someone is willing to pay. On the other hand the best non qb just fell to Atlanta and their pick becomes more valuable to them and to any non QB needy team that has a favorite.

 

[imahobgoblin]

Being responsible, even frugal with resources is a sound policy until that frugality prices you out of the market for something you need.
Riding a bicycle can save you a lot of money on a car but in you live in the northeast and work 40 miles from your home you will need to pay the going rate for a car to get to work.
It’s been 20 years of not needing a QBs.
Of course we didn’t pay the cost of a qb when we didn’t need one. Every decision is based upon the circumstance. Look at this years free agency. Of course he was going to do what he did. All those people who kept telling me look at the history were wrong because they, like you, don’t understand the context of the history.

You can just go back to the Jets. It is obvious you have no clue about this team.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

By all means show me evidence.
Yes I understand a lot of people think that. That doesn’t mean it’s correct. Belichick traded Bledsoe within the division.
If you are the team making the trade and you think you win the trade why wouldn’t you weaken your division as well.

If Flores thinks that trading #3 for 3 1s and a 3 is a great deal then why wouldn’t he want to weaken his division opponent while he’s at it and take their 3 1s?

If you think that would be a stupid move for the patriots to make them if you were Miami why would you stop them from making it?

By the way why would you think you are “debating”. It’s not a contest. We are giving opinions and trying to understand each other’s thinking.

Two things on the bledsoe trade: 1) we were 1 year into a 10 year 100 mill contract; we were looking to dump him to whoever offered the most compensation, but mostly 2) we had the much better qb on the team so going up against drew with TB sounded pretty good. Going up against fields for the next decade with tua as your qb doesn’t sound as appealing, which is why the pats would’ve had to beat the niners offer by quite a bit to get to 3. Maybe an additional 1 or multiple 2s in addition to the 3 1s.