If Cam is returning, we need a better QB room around him.

[Ross12]

I don't think that would be spending their resources wisely.

If there's a rush on offensive players in the draft and it looks like there could be, (QBs, WRs, TEs and OTs) you could get a top rated defensive player at a great value. Use the draft and the cap to build up the rest of the team. Grab a 2/3 round pick on a QB.

In short I personally wouldn't want a JG type. I'd rather have a QB on a rookie contract and Cam than an expensive JAG.

Of course that approach needs patience.

I expect this rebuild to take another year or two but I also expect that both the offense and defense will be better than last season.

They'll find a QB but they shouldn't outbid everyone else during a seemingly QB frenzied draft to get one save for a Trevor Lawrence type. Imo.

Yeah, I wouldn't really love them having to move way up for a guy. A short move, like between 10-14, is probably not too bad if they really like someone. If all the best QBs, WRs and Pitts (or at least, the ones they'd want) are gone well before #15, hard to ignore the chance to get a top-rated defensive player there. If they get a steal of a deal like that, maybe grab a Newman/Mond/Ramsey/Mills or something later on, I'll definitely be willing to give Cam one more year with an eye on the future.

 

[venecol]

IMO - this is all just my feeling - Cam is a popular QB who speaks highly of the culture/program in NE and will help with signing the offensive pieces they want (Samuel, etc). They still want Garoppolo if he can be had and know they will have to wait a bit. If NE makes a play later, Cam will become an insurance policy against Jimmy injuries but will also see the field in certain packages and/or games Jimmy sits due to injury.

Cam may have a better shot at a bigger contract next year if he looks decent in limited duty, vs. another year starting where his weaknesses continue to show.

The downside to that approach is you're committing almost $30M in cap space to QBs so don't have a lot of space to work with for other pieces. They may have to work something out with Jimmy at that point, contractually. They'll have some leverage since, considering the cap situation this year, most teams will have already spent what little cap space they had, so there won't be many mathematically possible suitors.

I think if they get to draft day and SF hasn't made a move for a QB, they grab a guy like Lance and forgo a move for Jimmy entirely, at least this year.

I don't see how a Plan based on something that's 100% out of your control can be considered a plan at all.

This fixation on a franchise QB of another team with 2 yrs left in his contract is fascinating. Not being critical to you Ross since I've seen this pretty much everywhere.

 

[Ring 6]

I don't see how a Plan based on something that's 100% out of your control can be considered a plan at all.

This fixation on a franchise QB of another team with 2 yrs left in his contract is fascinating. Not being critical to you Ross since I've seen this pretty much everywhere.

It’s not the plan.

 

[venecol]

It’s not the plan.

There is no plan?

 

[Ring 6]

There is no plan?

That’s not what I said.
waiting around on the hope that a player gets cut isn’t the plan.
Are you just being obtuse or do you really think the front office of the greatest dynasty ever simply hasn’t decided to make a plan due his they are filling the most important spot on the roster or that their plan is hoping a guy gets cut and they don’t know what to do if he doesn’t?

I assume the plan is the draft.

It is being reported that they reached out about trading for David Carr and he is not available. They reached out about trading for Jimmy G and he is not available NOW.
It has been reported they have been in on every available QB being traded.

The plan is anything and everything.

I can only assume Belichick has not lost his mind and newton was signed as a backup and in order to not have a vacant QB spot when free agency started, and it was only a wasted 3.5 mill rather than a wasted season.

It seems a QB they want to roll with isn’t going to be available so it will be the draft.
Hopefully that rookie starts week 1.

 

[venecol]

The plan is anything and everything.

It seems a QB they want to roll with isn’t going to be available so it will be the draft.
Hopefully that rookie starts week 1.

It all sounds so. Desperate.

Do you think hoping someone falls on their lap in the draft is their plan. Now? I guess they can trade up. Who do you think they're targeting in the draft and how far up will they go? Do they move from #15 to #5? What's the cost?

Even if the draft is the plan, do you really see Bill throwing the rookie to the wolves in Week 1?

So signing Cam Newton to a $5M one year contract was the 1st phase of the plan to have him sit on a bench but then use him to acquire FA receivers even though he's a backup? Again it sounds so desperate. I'm honestly confused by this plan.

 

[Deus Irae]

If Cam is returning, we need a better Cam.

 

[Ring 6]

It all sounds so. Desperate.

Do you think hoping someone falls on their lap in the draft is their plan. Now? I guess they can trade up. Who do you think they're targeting in the draft and how far up will they go? Do they move from #15 to #5? What's the cost?

Even if the draft is the plan, do you really see Bill throwing the rookie to the wolves in Week 1?

So signing Cam Newton to a $5M one year contract was the 1st phase of the plan to have him sit on a bench but then use him to acquire FA receivers even though he's a backup? Again it sounds so desperate. I'm honestly confused by this plan.

I’m not sure where you find desperation in pursuing every option to fill an important need.

You are just making **** up calling it the plan and then saying you are confused by it.

I’m not sure what is so confusing.

they need a QB.

They use trades, free agency and the draft to acquire players. They rule nothing out and explore every possibility.
That’s how it’s done.

I’m not sure what you think would be a plan that isn’t “desperate” as you say.

 

[venecol]

I’m not sure where you find desperation in pursuing every option to fill an important need.

You are just making **** up calling it the plan and then saying you are confused by it.

I’m not sure what is so confusing.

they need a QB.

They use trades, free agency and the draft to acquire players. They rule nothing out and explore every possibility.
That’s how it’s done.

I’m not sure what you think would be a plan that isn’t “desperate” as you say.

Targeting a QB to be your starter and signing him is a plan that isn't desperate after you've exhausted your potential options.

I think Bill did that when he signed Cam to a team friendly contract. You even agreed all day yesterday that Cam was the starter. Are you changing your mind?

This anything and everything sounds so Mikey Mouse. Certainly not something from an extraordinary franchise like the Patriots.

 

[venecol]

No. He won because of all of those things.
Trying to parse out which pieces of what were why they won is silly.
As a GM he won 6 SBs.
what matters is results.

I'm curious, what % of the last two SB wins would you attribute to Little Steven?

This may be important in his CV for his path to becoming the HCOF.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

How bad did stidham mess up his chance to start, that bb would rather bring back newton than commit to stidham?

at the end of the day, it could be because stidham completely lost bb’s confidence that bb felt he had to bring back newton,

You have to think that bb is drafting a rookie to groom to start next year, be it either Jones, mills or mond.

the wild card is the qb from smu. Who could replace stidham as the back up in 2022.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

If Cam is returning, we need a better Cam.

So we need dual cams. If we played him as the starter, you'd have to include that his backup cannot be an untested "project" (see Stidham) and reckon with the cost of that in cap terms, providing the tortured path to the nickname Dual-Overhead Cam.

 

[Gumby]

Oh, yea I did say that Belichick's history of looking for "value" (being cheap) is probably what he does again. I'll stand by that.

To me BB’s history includes much more than looking for value; sure he does that in all modalities:
Draft: Gronk and the player we don’t name we’re damaged goods
Trade: Vrabel & welker & moss were under valued commodities at the time
FAs: names escape me (funny this seems to be category where your argument would hold most water and at moment the only FA that pop in my head are Gilmore and Revis; which weren’t cheap)

regardless, my recollection of bb history is that when he has had a major disfunction in a commodity group; he throws sheet at the wall from all 4 modalities (3 above plus UDFAs) and sees what sticks [or at least using 2-3 of the 4 modalities].

I fully expect him to address QB more SOMEHOW. Whether it will be another FA + a mid draft pick or a high draft pick; I can’t predict. And I bet you; BB can’t predict himself either right now. There are 31 other players making decisions and he is keeping the options open to be able to react.

All these posters saying bb luvs cam and promised him something about starting seem to be 180 degrees out of phase with his 20-30 year track history going back to Cleveland. This is the guy who yanked the 2d most beloved qb in Cleveland history and some of you think he ‘committed’ something to cam???

Who knows maybe Cam will be the best option (at least week 1); but there will be more choices, because BB will throw more than just cam at that wall.

 

[venecol]

To me BB’s history includes much more than looking for value; sure he does that in all modalities:
Draft: Gronk and the player we don’t name we’re damaged goods
Trade: Vrabel & welker & moss were under valued commodities at the time
FAs: names escape me (funny this seems to be category where your argument would hold most water and at moment the only FA that pop in my head are Gilmore and Revis; which weren’t cheap)

regardless, my recollection of bb history is that when he has had a major disfunction in a commodity group; he throws sheet at the wall from all 4 modalities (3 above plus UDFAs) and sees what sticks [or at least using 2-3 of the 4 modalities].

I fully expect him to address QB more SOMEHOW. Whether it will be another FA + a mid draft pick or a high draft pick; I can’t predict. And I bet you; BB can’t predict himself either right now. There are 31 other players making decisions and he is keeping the options open to be able to react.

All these posters saying bb luvs cam and promised him something about starting seem to be 180 degrees out of phase with his 20-30 year track history going back to Cleveland. This is the guy who yanked the 2d most beloved qb in Cleveland history and some of you think he ‘committed’ something to cam???

Who knows maybe Cam will be the best option (at least week 1); but there will be more choices, because BB will throw more than just cam at that wall.

Thanks. Just a correction: Gilly was via trade.

Also, Revis took a $4M haircut because Bill told him he couldn't pay him more than the QB. Lol

 

[yukon cornelius]

Cam IS your day 1 starter even if/when they draft a QB.......he isn't the starter if they land another vet QB who beats him out in camp

Cam isn't the long term solution, unless something drastic happens.......but he is the starter even if they draft fields or lance or mond or trask or please god no jones

 

[Tony2046]

Cam IS your day 1 starter even if/when they draft a QB.......he isn't the starter if they land another vet QB who beats him out in camp

Cam isn't the long term solution, unless something drastic happens.......but he is the starter even if they draft fields or lance or mond or trask or please god no jones

Cam should be the starter week 1. He's the best option. And he'll most likely be the starter for the first eight weeks. Possibly longer.

He may even be the starter for week 1 of next season.

The rebuild and the search for the next franchise QB may take awhile. But Cam has proven himself as an excellent bridge guy. I love it.

My wish is that we find the next franchise QB and Cam moves on to another lucrative deal. If he becomes the next franchise QB himself, even better. If we see another championship with Cam would be the best.

Anyway Cam is on the roster and in Bill I trust so I'm rooting for the best outcome.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Cam should be the starter week 1. He's the best option. And he'll most likely be the starter for the first eight weeks. Possibly longer.

He may even be the starter for week 1 of next season.

The rebuild and the search for the next franchise QB may take awhile. But Cam has proven himself as an excellent bridge guy. I love it.

My wish is that we find the next franchise QB and Cam moves on to another lucrative deal. If he becomes the next franchise QB himself, even better. If we see another championship with Cam would be the best.

Anyway Cam is on the roster and in Bill I trust so I'm rooting for the best outcome.

i agree. I think newton starts the season as the starter.
I think the only way he is not starting during the season is if we have a losing record and someone demonstrates in practice that they are a better option to start.

stidham failed to do that all last year. But maybe potential jones or fields could be ready to overtake him later in the season if newton implodes.

 

[Jim Beankie]

What are our needs? Why do we have these needs? What resources have we dedicated to filling those needs? Any GM that’s done a good job in recent years of stocking the team with young talent doesn’t look at a near total rebuild one year after he loses the key centerpiece. Any GM that’s done a good job in recent years doesn’t allow that QB to get to UFA when he still clearly has excellent football left in him.

I would argue he isn’t even a top 10 GM all time. His excellence as a coach and having a QB taking less than top money while being able to make everyone around him better (your words when analyzing talent at the skill positions in years past) won those Super Bowls. His work as a GM cost him at least one (2019) and is point blank the primary reason why the dynasty ended early here while Tampa hoisted a Lombardi. His work as a GM ensured there was basically no plan at the QB position last offseason until they hit the panic button with Cam. His work as a GM is why you’re staring at another year with the “worst QB in the NFL” (again, your words). So yeah, you can defend that by pointing at the results while ignoring that his work GM is very far down the list for why, after his work as a coach and Brady.

Just curious who your top GMs are after the mid 90's (start of modern day FA and salary cap)? Thinking also at least over a decade on the same team as a qualifier. Admittedly, I only started watching football in my teens in the mid 80's, so I'm not familiar with it, although I'm thinking the juggernauts of Steelers and Cowboys probably had some stellar draft czars.

 

[NormZauchin]

Cam should be the starter week 1. He's the best option. And he'll most likely be the starter for the first eight weeks. Possibly longer.

He may even be the starter for week 1 of next season.

The rebuild and the search for the next franchise QB may take awhile. But Cam has proven himself as an excellent bridge guy. I love it.

My wish is that we find the next franchise QB and Cam moves on to another lucrative deal. If he becomes the next franchise QB himself, even better. If we see another championship with Cam would be the best.

Anyway Cam is on the roster and in Bill I trust so I'm rooting for the best outcome.

"Cam has proven himself as an excellent bridge guy." I wonder who would be a poor bridge guy. Someone who threw 2 touchdown passes for a whole season?

 

[PatsFanInVa]

"Cam has proven himself as an excellent bridge guy." I wonder who would be a poor bridge guy. Someone who threw 2 touchdown passes for a whole season?

The guy who designed this.