Debate Brady vs Belichick?

[SHOWTIME15]

Brady obviously is at a huge disadvantage now, trying to be successful with an entirely new team while being past his prime. This is just a blatantly obvious fact. Had he left before the 2010 season, when he was 33, and not 43, and in his prime, then yes you could have held him to his peak standard. What he's doing is unprecedented. None of those quarterbacks you mention started up with a new team at age 43. Montana retired at 37. Favre was a turnover machine and choke artist for much of his career, any age. Manning was completely spent at 39 and Denver won SB 50 despite him.

Age obviously is not applicable with regard to judging Belichick. So it's fair to hold him to the highest standard. Thus far he's falling flat on his face, and unless he has a miraculous off-season, things aren't going to get much better anytime soon, which will legitimately wither his legacy.

Excuses

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Look, you and the other Bradyites are saying how amazing he looks this season. He's playing like a 33-year-old. So therefore if he loses in the playoffs he ought to be evaluated as a 33-year-old. NO EXCUSES. As far as Tampa's record last year, they were 9-7. The Bucs this year will be 11-5 and therefore Brady would have added a whole 2 wins to that.

7-9

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

Look, you and the other Bradyites are saying how amazing he looks this season. He's playing like a 33-year-old, so therefore if he loses in the playoffs he ought to be evaluated as a 33-year-old. NO EXCUSES. As far as Tampa's record last year, they were 9-7. The Bucs this year will be 11-5 and therefore Brady would have added a whole 2 wins to that.

They were 7-9 last year

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Regarding 3B, the winning didn't start until Brady became the starter and it ended abruptly once he left. I'm betting that's not a coincidence.

It doesn't take a genius to know that it takes a franchise QB for a team to be successful. Belichick does not have a good QB yet, which is his own doing, but if you are going to evaluate Belichick as a coach post-Brady you need to at least see what he can do with a good QB. If he gets a guy like Stafford who can still play well at 32 and he ends up with a poor record then it's another story,

 

[SHOWTIME15]

7-9

They were 7-9 last year

My bad

 

[XLIX]

Look, you and the other Bradyites are saying how amazing he looks this season. He's playing like a 33-year-old, so therefore if he loses in the playoffs he ought to be evaluated as a 33-year-old. NO EXCUSES. As far as Tampa's record last year, they were 9-7. The Bucs this year will be 11-5 and therefore Brady would have added a whole 2 wins to that.

First of all, it is a 16 game season. Adding 2 wins is a lot.
Second of all, they were 7-9 last year, so he is doing better than you give him credit for.

Here is the nO eXcUsEs evaluation:

Belichick without Brady: 60-71
Brady without Belichick: 9-5

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

Pretty simple on Tampa’s improvement from last year to now. Having a QB who isn’t giving the ball to the other team at a record rate mixed with improvements in the back end of the defense.

 

[XLIX]

It doesn't take a genius to know that it takes a franchise QB for a team to be successful.

Bullsh*t. Plenty of teams have won Super Bowls without franchise quarterbacks. Philly and Baltimore (both times) come to mind. Even Denver counts because while they had a guy who was historically a franchise QB, he was clearly on his last legs and was having a very poor season.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Pretty simple on Tampa’s improvement from last year to now. Having a QB who isn’t giving the ball to the other team at a record rate mixed with improvements in the back end of the defense.

2019 TB Offense: 28.6ppg. 398ypg
2020 TB Offense: 28.6ppg. 362ypg

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

2019 TB Offense: 28.6ppg. 398ypg
2020 TB Offense: 28.6ppg. 362ypg

That talent on that team was there last year. Winston killed it himself.

 

[PatriotSpy]

Bullsh*t. Plenty of teams have won Super Bowls without franchise quarterbacks. Philly and Baltimore (both times) come to mind. Even Denver counts because while they had a guy who was historically a franchise QB, he was clearly on his last legs and was having a very poor season.

teams may sneak in a sb championship from time to time but more often than not, a franchise qb is needed and definitely needed for long term success.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Bullsh*t. Plenty of teams have won Super Bowls without franchise quarterbacks. Philly and Baltimore (both times) come to mind. Even Denver counts because while they had a guy who was historically a franchise QB, he was clearly on his last legs and was having a very poor season.

Baltimore in 2000, Philly, and Denver in 2015 were outliers (2000 Ravens and 2015 Broncos had historically good defenses). Nick Foles could have been a franchise QB had he stayed in Philly and worked under Frank Reich. Flacco was the long-term starter in Baltimore, so he was a franchise QB I would argue.

 

[RobertWeathers]

That talent on that team was there last year. Winston killed it himself.

Yep. He was fancy free with the football.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

2019 TB Offense: 28.6ppg. 398ypg
2020 TB Offense: 28.6ppg. 362ypg

Not only that Tampa has only beaten 1 playoff team this year. They are 0-4 vs KC, NO, and LAR and 0-5 if you count Chicago.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

Not only that Tampa has only beaten 1 playoff team this year. They are 0-4 vs KC, NO, and Tampa and 0-5 if you count Chicago.

They’re gonna have to do a complete 180 in the playoffs. Finishing ahead of the Rams would be beneficial to get matched up with the NFCE winner.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

They’re gonna have to do a complete 180 in the playoffs. Finishing ahead of the Rams would be beneficial to get matched up with the NFCE winner.

I think they are going to get the 5 seed, but I'm not so sure I like a matchup with WFT, who has a scary good pass rush. If it's Seattle, they are facing Russell Wilson and an improved defense (after the Carlos Dunlap trade). If they slip to the 7 seed, it's most likely NO, which hasn't gone well for them at all this year. Playing WFT, while not ideal, would be their best bet to the Divisional Round.

 

[JayNM]

20 pages in, what's the Forum's verdict? I refuse to vote

 

[RobertWeathers]

Not only that Tampa has only beaten 1 playoff team this year. They are 0-4 vs KC, NO, and Tampa and 0-5 if you count Chicago.

There is no doubt Tom has brought a higher level of efficiency to the offense. Red Zone TD %, yards per point, points per play, etc but let's not pretend hes making chicken salad out if chicken **** down there.

He is doing exactly what he is supposed to do. Put up points with a talented offense and protect the football so an average D isn't destroyed on a weekly basis.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I think they are going to get the 5 seed, but I'm not so sure I like a matchup with WFT, who has a scary good pass rush. If it's Seattle, they are facing Russell Wilson and an improved defense (after the Carlos Dunlap trade). If they slip to the 7 seed, it's most likely NO, which hasn't gone well for them at all this year. Playing WFT, while not ideal, would be their best bet to the Divisional Round.

Tampa will be one n dun....and it won't be Tom's fault.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

There is no doubt Tom has brought a higher level of efficiency to the offense. Red Zone TD %, yards per point, points per play, etc but let's not pretend hes making chicken salad out if chicken **** down there.

He is doing exactly what he is supposed to do. Put up points with a talented offense and protect the football so an average D isn't destroyed on a weekly basis.

He's playing much better than Winston did last year. But he needs good coaching (surprise surprise) to beat the top teams, it would seem. If this year has proven anything, it's a great QB can get you into the playoffs but if you want to win it all you're going to have to have stellar coaching along the way.