Debate Brady vs Belichick?

[XLIX]

Get back to me when Belichick is .500 for his career without Brady. Until then, the answer to the question is a no brainer.

 

[sb1]

I don't know about checked out but he has been strange with the media lately. Lots of excuse making between the "we sold out to win Super Bowls" and the comments about the cap situation.

I just think it was a poorly coached game in general which surprised me for an elimination game. I gave coaching a D in my grades and some of those things were in mind for sure.

 

[203Pat]

I just think it was a poorly coached game in general which surprised me for an elimination game. I gave coaching a D in my grades and some of those things were in mind for sure.

Even when asked about the team's struggles in Miami with some of the better Patriots teams he cited the win down there last year. Minor on the surface but for a guy who has always been "We're on to *next city*" for him to mention something that happened last year was another of the many odd comments this year.

 

[patfanken]

If this is true then why does a top HC make 7 mil a year and a top QB 30-40 mil a year? I think your argument holds more water when talking about positions other than QB, but even those other top players make more than HC's, even though players come under a salary cap.

This comment makes NO sense. If the QB position was so all powerful why is it that the some many so called mediocre QB's get to the superbowl and sometimes even win. (Eli and Foles are 2 of the more painful examples that come immediately to mind, but there are others) Isn't it telling that Peyton won both of his 2 titles when he was just along for the ride, while he won NOTHING when he was at the peak of his talents. Brett Farvre, Rodgers, and Brees are 3 more examples of GREAT QB's who can't carry their teams to championships DESPITE how good they are, each winning just one title over their long careers. Its just not in the nature of the game. The GAME is bigger than any one individual. And while it certainly didn't hurt to have Tom Brady as your QB, he was just ONE of the reasons we have 6 banners up on the wall.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Get back to me when Belichick is .500 for his career without Brady. Until then, the answer to the question is a no brainer.

Completely short-sighted opinion as it ignores the fact that Belichick has had only 1 elite QB his entire coaching career. Ya'll were making excuses for Brady last year when he didn't have weapons but won't afford any lenience to Belichick. How about this, when Brady consistently beats elite teams without Bill, come wake me up...

 

[scout]

Get back to me when Belichick is .500 for his career without Brady. Until then, the answer to the question is a no brainer.

Statement like this are not logical. You are taking the record of coaching for his first team and the year he doesn't have the GOAT QB. I look at it as draft picks, in that it takes a few years for a conclusion.

 

[sb1]

Completely short-sighted opinion as it ignores the fact that Belichick has had only 1 elite QB his entire coaching career. Ya'll were making excuses for Brady last year when he didn't have weapons but won't afford any lenience to Belichick. How about this, when Brady consistently beats elite teams without Bill, come wake me up...

Belichick is 2 games under .500 as Patriots coach without Brady. Fair or not the narrative is out there and backed by the stats. Hopefully Bill the GM fixes the mess. It won't be easy.

 

[Vindicate]

This debate again.

Unfortunately folks, this isn't binary. Quite the contrary, actually. It's an incredibly nuanced situation which can't be summed up by "X is better than X."

Too many times we've seen Brady be put into ****ty situations by Arians and the rest of the coaching. Also, there have been many times where, when the game is on the line in the waning minutes of play, we probably could've squeeked out the W if Brady was leading the 2 minute drill.

They both made each other, for a wide variety of reasons. It's as easy as that. That is the ONLY conclusion to be drawn right now, as their set of circumstances are quite different.

Even as a person who firmly believes Bill's motto "players win games, coaches lose them" - it really is a motto that is redundant. It asserts that a player has to execute and play well to win, and that losses are at the hands of a poorly coached team. The extension of that is that, it is up to the coach to put the team in winning situations and give them the best chance. Again, a very black and white motto for what is really a nuanced relationship.

Brady has an incredible set of players on offense. The Bucs have a defense that can play at a high level. I'm inclined to believe that if you have Bill this roster, they'd win those games against the Saints and they'd be the clear favorite.

If Brady was in NE, I think we would've won against the Chiefs, Seahawks, Texans, Bills, and we'd be in playoff contention still. It's nothing short of an accomplishment that Bill even gave us the hope of seeing the playoffs, given that we all had bought into this being a rebuild year.

Both have faults, clear ones at that. No argument there. But they're both great and complimented one another like no other tandem in history, and we probably won't see that again.

 

[sb1]

LOL



A$ante Samuel...

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Belichick is 2 games under .500 as Patriots coach without Brady. Fair or not the narrative is out there and backed by the stats. Hopefully Bill the GM fixes the mess. It won't be easy.

Sure, but look who the QBs Bill's had to work with:

-Kosar

-Testaverde

-Bledsoe

-Brady

-Cassel

-Jimmy G

-Jacoby Brissett

-Cam

Not a whole lot to work with without Brady. Are you going to knock Bill Walsh for being 8-24 without Joe Montana? C'mon man...

 

[patfanken]

Rodgers only has 17 4th quarter comebacks in 15 years, and last I checked only one came against a winning team (the playoff game vs Dallas when they incorrectly ruled that Dez Bryant didn't score).

Is it REALLY up to 17 He must be" improving" because the last time I remember looking at that stat when some in the media were touting that Rodger would end up as the GOAT, that 4th quarter figure was in the SINGLE digits.

It is truly remarkable how UNCLUTCH he's been over the years, while putting up such outstanding stats in yds, TDs and pick ratio. NO question his is fun to watch, but like Brees and Peyton, when the chips were down and you HAD to have a 2 minute drive, Tom has proven to be the best there ever was. To me that has been his most important legacy. What is he up to now, 1960?

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

The only thing I'll say is, Belichick's attitude towards media and reporters isn't as funny and enjoyable when we're losing. His obsession to avoiding the Cam questions and his attitude can be a little annoying.

With that said, best coach ever. Brady best QB ever. I prefer Brady, however.

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

Is it REALLY up to 17 He must be" improving" because the last time I remember looking at that stat when some in the media were touting that Rodger would end up as the GOAT, that 4th quarter figure was in the SINGLE digits.

It is truly remarkable how UNCLUTCH he's been over the years, while putting up such outstanding stats in yds, TDs and pick ratio. NO question his is fun to watch, but like Brees and Peyton, when the chips were down and you HAD to have a 2 minute drive, Tom has proven to be the best there ever was. To me that has been his most important legacy. What is he up to now, 1960?

I think the only quarterback in another universe that could have touched GOAT status if coached under Belichick is Drew Brees. I prefer him over Rodgers.

 

[DaBruinz]

Brady has now proven he is one of those QB's too. That was one of the last arguments against him - can he keep it going away from Bill? The answer so far is yes he can.

When Manning won a SB in 2015 his stats that year were remarkably similar to Cam Newton in 2020. Threw 17 int in 9 games too.

Brady hasn't done anything yet other than beaten Green Bay. Let's see if Tampa can win a play-off game first.,. THEN the talk of being able to do things away from BB might be considered..

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

Brady hasn't done anything yet other than beaten Green Bay. Let's see if Tampa can win a play-off game first.,. THEN the talk of being able to do things away from BB might be considered..

I biggest concern with Tampa Bay is their slow starts. Also, I expected them to be a 11-13 win team. They'll very likely get in, but I feel like they didn't do as well as the team could. I haven't seen many games. Why are they struggling? Is it the coach?

 

[DaBruinz]

Peyton Manning was a silver spoon binch who padded his stats playing in a dome and was carried to both of his rings by his teams' defenses.

He was also a sex offender who used his wife as a PED mule.

You have it wrong. He was carried to the first ring by the league. The 2nd ring was the defense in Denver.

Not touching the other statements.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I biggest concern with Tampa Bay is their slow starts. Also, I expected them to be a 11-13 win team. They'll very likely get in, but I feel like they didn't do as well as the team could. I haven't seen many games. Why are they struggling? Is it the coach?

Coaching is one issue with them. The other issue is they can't seem to play well against good teams. And against the average teams they look inconsistent - yesterday a perfect example.

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

Coaching is one issue with them. The other issue is they can't seem to play well against good teams. And against the average teams they look inconsistent - yesterday a perfect example.

I don't see them making it to the SB. However, i can never fully count out Brady.

 

[A Defiant Goose]

Earth shattering revelation that players matter more than coaches

 

[PP2]

NEW THREAD COMING NEXT WEEK:

"Debate over: Belichick more important than Brady?"