Debate Brady vs Belichick?

[RobertWeathers]

What are you going to tell us next, that Lebron is better than Jordan?

Oh boy. I hope this dude thinks through his answer.

 

[sean10mm]

Peyton Manning was a silver spoon binch who padded his stats playing in a dome and was carried to both of his rings by his teams' defenses.

He was also a sex offender who used his wife as a PED mule.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Yep and Sanders was healthy in 2007 and Dolts had the #1 scoring D in the NFL.

Watch Sanders in the 2nd 1/2 vs us in the AFCCG. He was a menace on the LoS.

I hated his kamikaze style play. It was very annoying. It was certainly worth it for the Colts and their fans, but it shortened his career big time.

 

[sean10mm]

Brady vs Belichick is a chicken-egg problem with no real answer.

I tend to favor players over coaches, even great coaches, simply because at some point someone has to actually execute the plan, otherwise it's just a list of things that won't happen.

 

[1960Pats]

I actually think Peyton is the best QB of all time. Purely based on talent and I feel he is one of few QBs you can place on any franchise and he would be successful.

You're in a minority with that opinion. He's actually one of the least clutch QBs in history. His record in big games has proven that over the test of time and in most top ten clutch QB lists he isn't even there.

He was placed in an all-expansion division where he played mostly indoors against weaker competition and got a free ride to the playoffs every year. He regularly got taken apart by Pittsburgh and the Pats and when he made it to the playoffs he was taken out in one game an incredible 9 times, often with the #1 seed. In one of his SB wins the MVP was Von Miller and the defense and in the other he played the vaunted Bears led by Lovie Smith and Rex Grossman.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Both Brady and Bill look mortal without each other.

Bill needs to find another QB to buy in and lead the team or else this is what we'll be getting each year. Bill's way of drafting and "team building" will not work without a competent QB at worst.

He's still carrying the team, but Brady is uncharacteristically not in control of most games as he was in NE. He needs a better Coach than Arians. Even with all talent, they'd be a .500 team at best without Brady.

 

[NormZauchin]

Belichick was the perfect coach for Brady, especially during those formative years. But if the question is who’s more important, it’s Brady, and it’s for more reasons then we think.

Having the top player buy in to the program like Brady did allowed the others to fall in line. That is really, really important and has been talked about by a lot of ex-players. That just wouldn’t have happened with other top QBs like Rodgers or Favre or Manning. Brady swallowing his ego allowed Bill to rule the roost unquestioned for 20 years.

The game is played by the players. Brady had a much bigger impact as the best player on the team and in the league. The other thing is the competitiveness, being the best clutch athlete in sports history along with Jordan and Woods, the leadership...those are things that make his teammates believe they are never out of the game. That is unique to Brady.

We don’t win 6 SBs or go to 9 without both together, and Bill brought out the best in Tom, but Brady was the most important person over that 20 year run.

As "best clutch player in history," I'd mention Bill Russell before either Jordan or Woods. And by the way, Woods had never won a major that he was not leading by the end of the third round until he took the 2019 Masters.

 

[sb1]

That's a useless vague retort but that aside... Brady won the division 17 out of 18 seasons so really why would anyone think he would win an 18th time?... Hmm... so actually the fact that you dismiss the notion out of hand says more about you but anyway..

NE has 4 losses (Denver, SF, Buffalo and Miami) where the opposing QB's collectively threw 0 TD's and 6 INT's. Cam threw 0 TD's and had 5 INT's in those days. If Brady's their starter this season then they win all of those games which would flip their record to 10-4 and would have them finishing 12-4 and winning the division. So yes, I stand by what I said.

Denver yes. Miami maybe. SF and Buffalo no.

Probably 8-6 and in wildcard contention and no division title.

Edit: On second thought I think Denver is the only yes here. The offense did not upgrade his weapons, Edelman is hurt and most importantly the defense is not good enough. And they showed it in those other three games. Defense is way worse now than it was last year when the team with Brady limped to 12-4 after an 8-0 start when they played crap teams, and a quick exit at home to a 6-seed.

Definitely best for Brady's legacy that he's elsewhere now.

 

[amfootball]

Both Brady and Bill look mortal without each other.

Bill needs to find another QB to buy in and lead the team or else this is what we'll be getting each year. Bill's way of drafting and "team building" will not work without a competent QB at worst.

He's still carrying the team, but Brady is uncharacteristically not in control of most games as he was in NE. He needs a better Coach than Arians. Even with all talent, they'd be a .500 team at best without Brady.

Brady does not look mortal. He is having a top 3 season statistically and has his team positioned for 11 wins and the playoffs. Bill looks like Cleveland Bill.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

That's a useless vague retort but that aside... Brady won the division 17 out of 18 seasons so really why would anyone think he would win an 18th time?... Hmm... so actually the fact that you dismiss the notion out of hand says more about you but anyway..

NE has 4 losses (Denver, SF, Buffalo and Miami) where the opposing QB's collectively threw 0 TD's and 6 INT's. Cam threw 0 TD's and had 5 INT's in those days. If Brady's their starter this season then they win all of those games which would flip their record to 10-4 and would have them finishing 12-4 and winning the division. So yes, I stand by what I said.

Brady did not win the division 17 out of 18 seasons. The Patriots did. It's a team game. And I love your simplistic analysis of how all of sudden you insert Brady into the lineup then we automatically get 4 more wins. It doesn't work that way. With Brady at best we are a 10-6 team and probably in 2nd in the AFCE. Brady didn't exactly help us get deep into the playoffs last year.

 

[BradytoMosstoGronk]

I think Brady is the GOAT but I do not think he is the best to ever play the position. If that makes any sense. I actually think Peyton is the best QB of all time. Purely based on talent and I feel he is one of few QBs you can place on any franchise and he would be successful.

Based on talent? Rodgers is better than Peyton.

Peyton was a regular season machine that crumbled in the playoffs. The 2006 team won a playoff game where they only kicked field goals. His defense won him 2006 and 2015. He tossed a pick 6 in both 2013 and 2009, ones he lost as well. In his 4 super bowls, MAYBE 2006 he played a key role in helping them win. Aside from that one super bowl, he's been inept or poor in every other one.

Hes not the best when he can't be clutch when you need it in the big game. And again, based on athleticism, he's not better than Rodgers, and Rodgers probably isn't in the top 10 greatest QBs.

 

[1960Pats]

As "best clutch player in history," I'd mention Bill Russell before either Jordan or Woods. And by the way, Woods had never won a major that he was not leading by the end of the third round until he took the 2019 Masters.

I stopped wasting my time with the younger, misinformed fans when it comes to Russell, the greatest player in NBA history. I'm just glad that I got to witness the Bill/Red show and the Tom/Bill show up close in my lifetime. No players or teams will ever match their accomplishments.

 

[sb1]

Brady does not look mortal. He is having a top 3 season statistically and has his team positioned for 11 wins and the playoffs. Bill looks like Cleveland Bill.

Bill is a better coach now than he was then.

An average coach with this roster likely wins no more than 1 game.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Brady does not look mortal. He is having a top 3 season statistically and has his team positioned for 11 wins and the playoffs. Bill looks like Cleveland Bill.

How is he having a top 3 season statistically when he is 4th in TDs, 7th in INTs, and 5th in yards, despite having more weapons than anyone except maybe Mahomes? And did I miss something - is Brady even in the MVP conversation? He looked every bit his age against KC, NO, LAR, and Chicago.

 

[1960Pats]

Based on talent? Rodgers is better than Peyton.

Peyton was a regular season machine that crumbled in the playoffs. The 2006 team won a playoff game where they only kicked field goals. His defense won him 2006 and 2015. He tossed a pick 6 in both 2013 and 2009, ones he lost as well. In his 4 super bowls, MAYBE 2006 he played a key role in helping them win. Aside from that one super bowl, he's been inept or poor in every other one.

Hes not the best when he can't be clutch when you need it in the big game. And again, based on athleticism, he's not better than Rodgers, and Rodgers probably isn't in the top 10 greatest QBs.

Rodgers only has 17 4th quarter comebacks in 15 years, and last I checked only one came against a winning team (the playoff game vs Dallas when they incorrectly ruled that Dez Bryant didn't score).

 

[sb1]

How is he having a top 3 season statistically when he is 4th in TDs, 7th in INTs, and 5th in yards, despite having more weapons than anyone except maybe Mahomes? And did I miss something - is Brady even in the MVP conversation? He looked every bit his age against KC, NO, LAR, and Chicago.

He's not going to win it but I think he's in the conversation. I thought he played well in those games except for NO.

 

[BradytoMosstoGronk]

Rodgers only has 17 4th quarter comebacks in 15 years, and last I checked only one came against a winning team (the playoff game vs Dallas when they incorrectly ruled that Dez Bryant didn't score).

Oh, I'm not here touting Rodgers other than one point -- athleticism. He's got all worldy talent but clutch isn't his strong suit and has, as you mentioned, little to show for it. I was just rebutting if we're on talent alone, Manning isn't even better than Rodgers.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

The debate will not be decided on how Brady does in Tampa given he is 43 but more how Bill does without Tom. So far the returns are not in Bill's favor given we are 6-8 and likely to finish 7-9. I do think we need another 2-3 years and let Bill try to the rebuild before any final conclusions. But 8 seasons without Brady and Bill is sub .500 and his first full season without Brady on the roster and he is sub .500. Those are the facts right now.

Agreed, the only way TB could be judged would be in a positive way if he somehow won a ring with the bucs but that’s unlikely. not much you could really say negatively about a 43 yo qb. Bb has more to prove here, a few years to get this team back to contention or else that also sways it in bradys favor id say. And we do have another full season in 2008 where bb did decent without brady, but still not nearly enough data.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

How is he having a top 3 season statistically when he is 4th in TDs, 7th in INTs, and 5th in yards, despite having more weapons than anyone except maybe Mahomes? And did I miss something - is Brady even in the MVP conversation? He looked every bit his age against KC, NO, LAR, and Chicago.

I think he was saying top 3 in Brady’s career. 4th in the league in TD and 5th in yards at 43 that is really bad.

NO, LAR and Chicago ok. But that has more to do with pressure and Brady not willing to get hit a lot at 43. Against KC he nearly brought them back against the best team in football after being behind 17-0 in the first quarter. If you can get a clean pocket for him he will destroy you.

 

[203Pat]

Pat McAfee: I am wondering if Bill Belichick is checked out​

https://www.radio.com/weei/sports/patriots/pat-mcafee-i-am-wondering-if-bill-belichick-is-checked-out

I don't know about checked out but he has been strange with the media lately. Lots of excuse making between the "we sold out to win Super Bowls" and the comments about the cap situation.