N'Keal Harry (lack of) Progress Report

[WaterfallJumper]

Read these two thread titles back to back and got a big surprise this afternoon.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Yes it is. Please show your post where you stated that Metcalf should be picked above every other received in that draft class. Thank you.

I like Harry, but I can go dig if you really want and show you multiple posts during that draft wherein I was saying we should trade up to take Metcalf. I wanted him and McLaurin. Ah well. This is what we have instead.

I still think Harry is salvageable. The question is whether or not he's ever going to be the type of player who defenses have to account for, or simply a role player. I suspect he'll improve enough to be the latter -- not a bust, but perhaps disappointing compared with expectations. If he can be a consistent 65/850/6 type of player, then that's probably best case scenario for his skillset. Perhaps he even can take it a step above that? I don't know if he'll ever be the top guy, but he can still be productive. I am surprised we're not hitting him on more shallow crossers or sending him deep for back shoulder passes, etc. He's also a good red zone receiver based on admittedly limited sample size.

 

[BelizePats]

I like Harry, but I can go dig if you really want and show you multiple posts during that draft wherein I was saying we should trade up to take Metcalf. I wanted him and McLaurin. Ah well. This is what we have instead.

I still think Harry is salvageable. The question is whether or not he's ever going to be the type of player who defenses have to account for, or simply a role player. I suspect he'll improve enough to be the latter -- not a bust, but perhaps disappointing compared with expectations. If he can be a consistent 65/850/6 type of player, then that's probably best case scenario for his skillset. Perhaps he even can take it a step above that? I don't know if he'll ever be the top guy, but he can still be productive. I am surprised we're not hitting him on more shallow crossers or sending him deep for back shoulder passes, etc. He's also a good red zone receiver based on admittedly limited sample size.

If you have another account with the name Todd Bradley, then my hats off to you, Reamer. My post was pointed squarely at Todd Bradley. Respects.

 

[BelizePats]

I like Harry, but I can go dig if you really want and show you multiple posts during that draft wherein I was saying we should trade up to take Metcalf. I wanted him and McLaurin. Ah well. This is what we have instead.

I still think Harry is salvageable. The question is whether or not he's ever going to be the type of player who defenses have to account for, or simply a role player. I suspect he'll improve enough to be the latter -- not a bust, but perhaps disappointing compared with expectations. If he can be a consistent 65/850/6 type of player, then that's probably best case scenario for his skillset. Perhaps he even can take it a step above that? I don't know if he'll ever be the top guy, but he can still be productive. I am surprised we're not hitting him on more shallow crossers or sending him deep for back shoulder passes, etc. He's also a good red zone receiver based on admittedly limited sample size.

I agree with you completely in terms of where Harry's ceiling probably is. If we can get that out of him on a consistent basis, I'd be delighted. But it does seem to me, as you outlined towards the end of your post, that the offense is not playing to his strengths, which is why I think it's fair to question our OC.

 

[Hyped]

I like Harry, but I can go dig if you really want and show you multiple posts during that draft wherein I was saying we should trade up to take Metcalf. I wanted him and McLaurin. Ah well. This is what we have instead.

I also wanted Metcalf, but was OK with Harry when he was drafted.

 

[captain stone]

I also wanted Metcalf, but was OK with Harry when he was drafted.

I wanted AJ Brown first (Deebo Samuel was my 2nd choice), but was also OK with Harry (whom I placed in the mid-2nd round tier with DK Metcalf & Terry McLaurin) when he was drafted. In fact I wrote that I "loved" the pick because I wanted a WR with #32 (though I was tempted by OT Jawaan Taylor), and I ass-umed that Bill knew what he was doing...

 

[TheRainMaker]

BB biggest mistake was not drafting Harry. It was only drafting Harry and relying on him. You had a 42 QB with limited mobility and his effectiveness depends on what you surround with with, yet you only draft one WR and say "we're good" . Shopping in the clearance section at WR in FA didn't help as they all were cut or traded (Thomas).

Off the top of my head, BB has hedged his bets at positions of need such as 2003 (CB Wilson and CB Samuel), 2008 (CB Wheatley, CB Wilhite), 2010 (TE Gronk, TE Hernandez), 2011 (RB Vareen, RB Ridley) and 2015 (G Tre Jackson, G Shaq Mason, DE Grissham, DE Flowers). See a trend? Only 2008 didn't work out and scored on at least one player.

In a draft that was deep at WR, not taking another one between rounds 2-4 in case Harry didn't work out was the biggest blunder and goes against what he's done in the past. And I would've said the same thing no matter who they took with their first pick because they need more than just one WR. I get why teams including the Pats passed on Metcalf as he could've been Chad Jackson all over again being a "workout warrior".

But in regards to Harry, I think the Pats got baited into the annual random "draft riser", a common tactic used by teams to blow smoke on a player they don't want in hopes of a team in front of them takes him. That's why you take another in case it doesn't work out. Most annalists had him around 4th or 5th WR on the board, but then days before the draft, he was suddenly "rising".

 

[DaBruinz]

I have no special "ins" to the Pats brain trust so I can only offer speculation based on what I see and read. To me it appears that this offense is still extremely hard for new players to pick up. And I think its fair to point the finger at Josh to some degree.

The offense is Belichick's. He's given it to Weis, McDaniels, and O'Brien to use and modify, but the original 4 in binder every year is his. This is well known to people who have actually read about Belichick and his coaching days starting all the way back as a coaching assistant.

The essence for the Receiver is that he must be on the same page as the QB. That he must make the exact same read as the QB pre-snap and then must also make the same post snap adjustment. Very few receivers have shown an ability to do this. Troy Brown, Wes Welker, Randy Moss, Julian Edelman, and Deion Branch have been the most successful. There have been others who have has some success, but they are fewer and far between. Many a receiver has come in and washed out. Chad Johnson. Donald Hayes. Reggie Wayne. Jackson, Dobson, Joyce, Gabriel etc.

People talk about other teams, but none of them have the complex offense that the Pats have. Not even the Colts did under Manning. Now. Maybe Belichick should stop being stodgy about this and change. But with 6 SB wins and 9 appearances in 20 years, it's hard to question that judgement.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Most annalists had him around 4th or 5th, but then days before the draft, he was suddenly "rising".

Not even remotely true. He was universally seen as a first or second round pick.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Not even remotely true. He was universally seen as a first or second round pick.

Ha ha. Not 4th or 5th round. 4th or 5th WR.

I saw him mostly in 1st or very early 2nd round as they expected 4-5 WR's to be taken in the first round alone.

 

[BelizePats]

The offense is Belichick's. He's given it to Weis, McDaniels, and O'Brien to use and modify, but the original 4 in binder every year is his. This is well known to people who have actually read about Belichick and his coaching days starting all the way back as a coaching assistant.

The essence for the Receiver is that he must be on the same page as the QB. That he must make the exact same read as the QB pre-snap and then must also make the same post snap adjustment. Very few receivers have shown an ability to do this. Troy Brown, Wes Welker, Randy Moss, Julian Edelman, and Deion Branch have been the most successful. There have been others who have has some success, but they are fewer and far between. Many a receiver has come in and washed out. Chad Johnson. Donald Hayes. Reggie Wayne. Jackson, Dobson, Joyce, Gabriel etc.

People talk about other teams, but none of them have the complex offense that the Pats have. Not even the Colts did under Manning. Now. Maybe Belichick should stop being stodgy about this and change. But with 6 SB wins and 9 appearances in 20 years, it's hard to question that judgement.

Well, then some of the blame for the way Harry has been used should be directed at Bill.

 

[Flash]

Glass-half-full type of guy here, I'm not giving up on Harry until he is officially out of this team. I also didn't give up on Aaron Dobson.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Wow. More made up BS.. Notice how you can't be bothered to name all these "skill" players taken under McDaniels that were busts.

James White. Malcolm Mitchell. Sony Michel. Braxton Berrios.

What do they all have in common? They were all drafted under McDaniels. And though Berrios was cut, he's playing decently for the JETES.. Gotta give credit where it's due.

LOL that’s a pathetic list

 

[NG Pats Fan]

The Steelers are no better than the Patriots at drafting WRs. This has been proven ad naseum.

LMAO, ahhh homerism at its finest

 

[FCB02062]

The offense is Belichick's. He's given it to Weis, McDaniels, and O'Brien to use and modify, but the original 4 in binder every year is his. This is well known to people who have actually read about Belichick and his coaching days starting all the way back as a coaching assistant.

The essence for the Receiver is that he must be on the same page as the QB. That he must make the exact same read as the QB pre-snap and then must also make the same post snap adjustment. Very few receivers have shown an ability to do this. Troy Brown, Wes Welker, Randy Moss, Julian Edelman, and Deion Branch have been the most successful. There have been others who have has some success, but they are fewer and far between. Many a receiver has come in and washed out. Chad Johnson. Donald Hayes. Reggie Wayne. Jackson, Dobson, Joyce, Gabriel etc.

People talk about other teams, but none of them have the complex offense that the Pats have. Not even the Colts did under Manning. Now. Maybe Belichick should stop being stodgy about this and change. But with 6 SB wins and 9 appearances in 20 years, it's hard to question that judgement.

Amendola, Brandon LaFell, Jabar Gaffney and to a lesser extent Stallworth are second tier guys who've been able to come here and have productive seasons in this offense...I'd love to know what they have that guys like Galloway, Chad Johnson, and about 10 draft picks do not have...

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Amendola, Brandon LaFell, Jabar Gaffney and to a lesser extent Stallworth are second tier guys who've been able to come here and have productive seasons in this offense...I'd love to know what they have that guys like Galloway, Chad Johnson, and about 10 draft picks do not have...

galloway 37 years old, legs washed up

ocho 34 years old, couldn’t run fast anymore. Washed out of nfl a year later


being young and in your prime matters

 

[Thelonious]

The Steelers are no better than the Patriots at drafting WRs. This has been proven ad naseum. You're choosing to ignore reality.

The Steelers offense is also not as complex as the Patriots. Again, something you choose to ignore.

You're not remotely close to an "objective observer".

Claiming that Harry is sluggish, clueless slow and clumsy is PROOF of your ridiculous bias. The only one looking like a stumblebum is you. Seriously.

Bias? What bias? I prefer WR's who don't suck. This is a bias?

Your assertion that the Steelers haven't drafted better WR's than we is just plain ridiculous. You MUST know that.

As for the complexity argument, I doubt very much Bill is looking to adapt his sophisticated offense to the simple-mindedness of inferior talent. Why not find players who are up to the job of playing in a sophisticated system? Are you so dedicated to helping these stumblebums feel good about themselves?

And your assertion that an "objective" observer would be thrilled with the Pats' work drafting and trading for WR's is downright pathological. Cop a clue, willya.

 

[203Pat]

Glass-half-full type of guy here, I'm not giving up on Harry until he is officially out of this team. I also didn't give up on Aaron Dobson.

I still have a very small sliver of hope that he has time to at least turn into a serviceable receiver. The dreams of a prime Dez or Anquan Boldin are long gone but I would be happy if he could be a Devin Funchess type. I think there is about a 3% of that happening but a man can dream.

 

[DaBruinz]

Bias? What bias? I prefer WR's who don't suck. This is a bias?

Your assertion that the Steelers haven't drafted better WR's than we is just plain ridiculous. You MUST know that.

As for the complexity argument, I doubt very much Bill is looking to adapt his sophisticated offense to the simple-mindedness of inferior talent. Why not find players who are up to the job of playing in a sophisticated system? Are you so dedicated to helping these stumblebums feel good about themselves?

And your assertion that an "objective" observer would be thrilled with the Pats' work drafting and trading for WR's is downright pathological. Cop a clue, willya.

You're bias is that you do nothing but S**T on this team. You're a troll.

Clearly you have reading comprehension issues because I never said that the Steelers didn't draft "better WR"s. I said that their success wasn't much different. And if you weren't such a buffoon, you'd know that to be FACTUAL. The Steelers have drafted significantly more "skill" players than the Patriots have. That's why it seems that their hit rate is higher.. It's not.

I'm the one who has a clue. You're the troll who comes out to crap on the team on a regular basis. That's why you have the nickname "Thelonoius the Erroneous" by numerous other posters on here.

 

[Kontradiction]

You're bias is that you do nothing but S**T on this team. You're a troll.

Clearly you have reading comprehension issues because I never said that the Steelers didn't draft "better WR"s. I said that their success wasn't much different. And if you weren't such a buffoon, you'd know that to be FACTUAL. The Steelers have drafted significantly more "skill" players than the Patriots have. That's why it seems that their hit rate is higher.. It's not.

I'm the one who has a clue. You're the troll who comes out to crap on the team on a regular basis. That's why you have the nickname "Thelonoius the Erroneous" by numerous other posters on here.

I don’t care for the guy, but I’ve literally never seen anyone use that nickname here. I think you’re lying.

EDIT: A quick search yields that the only other time that name has been used was by @Tony2046. In this thread. Not posters, plural. Poster, singular. Looks like you’re a liar. Probably a thief, too.