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4 131 Shaq Mason - Pro bowler
Neither have made the pro bowl.4 101 Trey Flowers - Pro bowler
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CLICK HERE to Register for a free account and login for a smoother ad-free experience. It's easy, and only takes a few moments.4 131 Shaq Mason - Pro bowler
Neither have made the pro bowl.4 101 Trey Flowers - Pro bowler
To me, it’s all about comparative success. None of these people seem to have any idea what the actual standard is when they just make a blanket statement that Belichick is the best drafter or personnel guy. I suspect he is, but I don’t know. Don’t other teams also hit on some late round picks and UDFAs? Of course. Don’t other teams uncover great FA values sometimes but usually miss when they go bargain hunting? Of course.
Belichick seems to have a lot of hits and misses. What exactly that percentage is and whether that’s good, average, or below average really isn’t clear. It’s like evaluating baseball players before advanced analysis...just no actual idea besides guesswork and selective sampling.
@slam Had a thread not too long ago looking into this. I know there's stuff out there that has touched on this. 538 Might have done something. I know there's a few articles/studies though.Of all the numerous complaints about BB's drafting I've seen here, not one has even tried to address this question, i.e. to attempt to show that other teams have done better than BB did with their own drafting opportunities. I suspect the reason for that is the complainers have tried to do that and know it can't be done.
Neither have made the pro bowl.
Expanding a bit on this post. The "AV" value is what @slam used for his thread I believe?@slam Had a thread not too long ago looking into this. I know there's stuff out there that has touched on this. 538 Might have done something. I know there's a few articles/studies though.
I know @TB_Helmet is looking into this as well as looking into others who grade prospects. Media members and w/e else we can find. So far he's looked at mine and the NFL. Specifically where the NFL drafted a prospect & where I had them graded. Once things settle down he can compare that with how others had prospects ranked/graded. Matt Miller, Lance Zeirlian, @Off The Grid , draft Twitter etc
He's been busy with work but I'm sure he'll post it when he has a chance.
Just my opinion I think Bill is very good. He's certainly not perfect. Has his weak spots and misses like everyone else but it's not easy. He's coaching, teaching and developing as a HC. Constantly trying to stay ahead of the curve with what's happening and new in the NFL world. Then he puts on his GM hat. Evaluates players futures, how much they're worth. Replacing and filling holes.
He might need more help but theirs no one that can come close to fulfilling those duties.
@slam Had a thread not too long ago looking into this. I know there's stuff out there that has touched on this. 538 Might have done something. I know there's a few articles/studies though.
I know @TB_Helmet is looking into this as well as looking into others who grade prospects. Media members and w/e else we can find. So far he's looked at mine and the NFL. Specifically where the NFL drafted a prospect & where I had them graded. Once things settle down he can compare that with how others had prospects ranked/graded. Matt Miller, Lance Zeirlian, @Off The Grid , draft Twitter etc
He's been busy with work but I'm sure he'll post it when he has a chance.
Just my opinion I think Bill is very good. He's certainly not perfect. Has his weak spots and misses like everyone else but it's not easy. He's coaching, teaching and developing as a HC. Constantly trying to stay ahead of the curve with what's happening and new in the NFL world. Then he puts on his GM hat. Evaluates players futures, how much they're worth. Replacing and filling holes.
He might need more help but theirs no one that can come close to fulfilling those duties.
Expanding a bit on this post. The "AV" value is what @slam used for his thread I believe?
Like I said above @TB_Helmet is messing around with that as well. I know he was looking into this stuff.
He also was nice enough to use it for me and NFL so far. Hopefully we'll get to see how other faired after this mess is over.
Bill has whiffed on prospects. On drafts but he's better than most imo. Imo there are some that are just better than others. We've seen it throughout history. Luck is definitely involved but it's hard to argue with consistency?
Not perfect at all but he's arguably the GOAT HC. I'd say he's very good-borderline great when it comes to evaluating contracts, bringing in FA/UDFA. And out of a 1-10 in drafting he's closer to 10 than 1 imo. 6.5-7.5? 8? Idk he's in that range for me. Again I value and appreciate the consistency. All this/was with Brady though so there is that. You can't ignore that. Still Bill is Bill. He's from the dirt and maybe the GOAT everything.
This is what, his 3rd, 4th act? Not sure how it'll end but I don't want anyone else for the job rn. And there's a decent gap before the 2nd.
Bunch of picks this year. Bunch of picks and money next year. Actually very excited to see what he'll do despite pissed Brady isn't here.
Yeah I hear this. I think part of it is we're so close to it so it's always there. A look at some of Ozzie Newsome's draft will have you scratching your head. Same with others.Several folks have done these comparative studies over the past few years, and they've always shown that BB has done well drafting, always near the top. The remarkable thing is that none of his critics have done this. I'm sure they've tried and failed and not said anything.
How about it BB drafting bashers? Can't you even contrive something that shows BB is bad at drafting vs his peers? How about just for wide receivers? Or 2nd round picks? Show something supports your claims that BB the GM sucks.
KGH started 10 games in '18 and 6 in '19 for PHL before being injured, so at least he reached 'spot starter' status, IMO.6 208 Kamu Grugier-Hill - Nothing
And that study doesn't attempt to weight for draft position. The Pats have had fewer opportunities than anyone because of their historically low draft positions, yet are near the top in value drafted. A weighted study would even more dramatically show how well BB has done. So would adding in free agent signings.
They lost me at INDY taking the top spot.PatsPulpit just did a good analysis.
The BB-Sucks-at-Drafting crowd won't like it but the truth hurts.
The Patriots are better at drafting than you may think - Pats Pulpit
They read this board.They lost me at INDY taking the top spot.
The examples the chose for 2005, 2015, and 2016 weren't very convincing.
I find it funny they are talking about as they are aware that there are fans that think BB isn't that great at drafting.
That's funny.They read this board.
PatsPulpit just did a good analysis.
The BB-Sucks-at-Drafting crowd won't like it but the truth hurts.
The Patriots are better at drafting than you may think - Pats Pulpit
I have I feeling any way you slice it. W/e criteria, metrics you're using. Bill will be among the top 3-5-10.Good point, this is like the DYAR vs DVOA difference at Football Outsiders: you can measure the absolute impa
It's year by year and weighted as well; I assume they use one of the draft position value charts (2020 NFL Trade Value Chart) for the investment made and AV (Approximate Value » Pro-football-reference.com blog) for the value achieved . Good effort.
The comments are amusing, as the BB bashers struggle to discredit it, still serving up the same memes -- "BB sucks in the 2nd round", "BB can't draft WR's", etc -- all without any analysis.
Bill is hit or miss with his drafts. His recent drafts have been nothing to write home about and maybe he should avoid using high round picks on offensive weapons. Sony Maroney is a fourth rounder at best. We'll see about N'Keal Harry.
All GM's make head scratching decisions, Bill included (hello Jordan Richards). I don't know where he should be judged among current GM's but I wouldn't say he is the best, definitely not in recent years.