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I'm on Team Stidham


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If he is going to be the starter, Stidham is in the worst position of any qb in the NFL. That is not hyperbole. He's following the goat, he's in a market that can be brutal, he has absolutely no talent around him, he's facing a brutal schedule and the best OL coach of all time just retired. He is doomed to fail.
 
count me as an optimistic Stidman supporter. I believe bb and josh will get the best from him.
I’m starting a new football journey in the post-Brady era.

And indeed, I expect Edelman to be playing in Tampa next season.

In Super Bowl LV.

Chiefs=typical SB letdown, and aren't that good anyway.

Ravens=likewise crashing to Earth.

Door is open, I'd like to see Pats pick up a little help, but it's still there in front of us.

Pats=best coached team in the league
 
Stidham is NOT a franchise QB, and I’ll bet anyone on that.
What makes you say that?

If he is going to be the starter, Stidham is in the worst position of any qb in the NFL. That is not hyperbole. He's following the goat, he's in a market that can be brutal, he has absolutely no talent around him, he's facing a brutal schedule and the best OL coach of all time just retired. He is doomed to fail.
Let's say you're right - the Patriots go into the season without enough offensive weapons. And on top of that, the OL is injured again, or they miss Scar, or they just stink.

Wouldn't most QBs and most teams struggle on offense under those circumstances?

Is it possible that Stidham could struggle at times, and still show enough to prove to BB that he can be a viable NFL QB a little further down the road when he has more help?
 
What makes you say that?


Let's say you're right - the Patriots go into the season without enough offensive weapons. And on top of that, the OL is injured again, or they miss Scar, or they just stink.

Wouldn't most QBs and most teams struggle on offense under those circumstances?

Is it possible that Stidham could struggle at times, and still show enough to prove to BB that he can be a viable NFL QB a little further down the road when he has more help?

Yes, most QBs and teams would struggle. The problem is Stidham's confidence will be shattered before he gets off the ground. He has nothing to work with. The guy may be super talented, but there will be no way to know that this year. The guy is going to get pummeled, and his confidence will be destroyed before he has any type of chance. The Pats offensive talent is that bad.
 
Apologies in advance for the long post. I've had some time on my hands the past few days.

After the shock of Brady leaving wore off, I started looking more closely at Jarrett Stidham to try and form an opinion about what the Patriots have at Quarterback moving forward. After a few days of reading stories and watching videos, I have to say... I'm on Team Stidham at the moment.

Why? Let's start with what the coaches say about him:

Bill Belichick: "Jarrett is a smart kid. He picks things up very quickly. He has a good grasp of the offense given where he is in his career. He’s handled everything we’ve thrown at him. In practice, he does a good job. He gets a lot of passes on our defense and when he has the opportunity to get the offensive snaps, he’s prepared and does a good job of those."

Josh McDaniels: "I really think he’s got a great attitude. He’s improved during the course of the year and he’s ready to go each week."

Stidham's throwing coach, Jordan Palmer: “I think he is a star, and he is going to be a big-time franchise quarterback. I have felt that way for a couple years now. I’m totally fine saying that. I don’t care that he went fourth round. I think he is legitimate."

“He is going to be the leader of New England for a long time, whenever that starts. Go ahead and jump on that bandwagon.”​

Now let's examine what the defensive backs who face him in practice are saying:

Stephon Gilmore: "He’s done good. He gives us a great look each and every week, throwing good balls... I feel like he’s gotten better."

Duron Harmon: "You see throws out there that he makes where you’re just like, 'wow'. You can tell he has the intangibles to be a good pro quarterback."

"There are other things he does and (it shows) he’s young, but it’s all a part of the learning process and the learning curve. He’s a guy who comes to work each and every day. He gives us the same attitude. He’s a great teammate. Looking forward to when he gets his chance to see what he can do."

Terrence Brooks: "There have been a few throws that we see in practice where we're like, 'Damn, that was a nice one. He's getting better.'"

"We like that guy. He's a good guy. Good locker room guy. Teammates love him."

"You see a guy who has really tight coverage on somebody, and he finds a place to put it where the DB can't get it. Those are the type of throws that you classify as 'NFL throws.'"

"He moves well. He can get in places he needs to get and make throws he needs to make."

"He’s made some great throws in practice where everybody takes notice. Like, 'Hey man, this dude is getting really good.'"​

How about the guys who are catching his passes?

Phillip Dorsett: "You see [his talent] every day. When he's doing scout team, he has a cannon. He's got a rocket for an arm. I'd say that's his biggest strength. He can make every throw. He throws a pretty catchable pass."

"He’s a good quarterback. I like the way he throws the ball. He spins it."

"He seems real cool and collected. He takes criticism well, doesn’t get down on himself and just goes out there and plays football."

Jacoby Meyers: "I know if we're doing scout team or something, he makes some throws where it's not really our offense and he's just showing his arm off, he's made some pretty crazy throws. I mean, he definitely has a lot of arm talent, and he shows it here and there."

"On the move. In the pocket. He can step in and do all of that."

"It’s easy to follow him on the field. It’s easy to listen to him. He’ll tell you what he wants and how he wants it and you just do it."​

All right, those guys are all on his team. What about some more neutral takes from NFL Draft Analysts?

Daniel Jeremiah: "He throws the best ball out of anybody in this draft. You put them all in shorts and a t-shirt and you would pick Jarrett Stidham as the guy. He’s a great athlete - he just wasn’t a great fit in that Auburn offense after transferring from Baylor."

"Operates in the gun. They throw a lot of those quick tunnel screens, a lot of those short underneath throws because when they do try to go down the field, he’s under constant pressure. That offensive line was out-manned in the SEC this year and as a result, he made some wild throws and missed some easy lay-ups.”

“I went to the Elite 11 last year where all of the top college quarterbacks came in as counselors - and they were all there, I’m talking about Tua (Tagovailoa) from Alabama, Jarrett Stidham was there, Drew Lock, Will Grier - all those guys. And when you watched them all just throw in shorts, I left there saying that Jarrett Stidham throws it better than all those guys. That’s what type of arm talent he has.”

Jim Nagy: "Jarrett's got starter ability. No doubt in my mind. If they develop him right. Again, quarterback play is all about opportunity and situation. I think he's in a good spot to really maximize that. I think Jarrett could definitely be a starter in the NFL."

"It's just natural. He's just a natural thrower. Some of these guys have to get drilled and go to camps. I've made the comment a couple of times over the years down here in Alabama about him, 'Jarrett came out of the womb throwing a football.' It's so natural to him. It doesn't matter if his feet aren't right, if he's off-balance, if he's gotta adjust his arm angle. The ball just comes off his hand so clean. That's why it's so important."

"You see him make a lot of throws under duress. You see him make a lot of tight-window throws. There were a couple of quarterbacks in this draft that really sat back in a clean pocket and played pitch-and-catch all the time. That's not the NFL. When I evaluate quarterbacks I want to see people in their face, throwing into tight windows."

"I go back to seeing Jarrett play Week 1 against Washington this year and you can go back to my Twitter feed from that day back in September. Some of his red-zone throws in that game were incredible. If you want to see a guy's true accuracy. Go do a cut-up of all the red-zone stuff, his ball placement in the red zone. Not even on that day but over the course of the year, he's one of the best in the class and maybe the best in this year's class. He brings a lot to the table. He really does."

National Scout for an NFC team on Stidham's senior year: "That was a really dysfunctional offense this year. The offensive line was bad, the receivers couldn't get open and the coaching was a big problem, I thought. He didn't play well, but he didn't get much help either."​

Remember that prior to Stidham's senior season, he was viewed as a possible 1st round pick.

And when he got on the field in the pre-season last summer, he was at least as good as guys like Garoppolo and Brissett were in the pre-season of their rookie years.



In fact, I see a lot of similarities between that video and the way Garoppolo played in the regular season with the Patriots once he got his shot.

Stidham seems like a good kid who's working hard, getting better, and has some real talent. I don't think it's a huge stretch to think that the Patriots might have found someone with real ability who was in a bad situation at Auburn, and that there's a chance he could be at least a serviceable NFL quarterback.

I'm not suggesting that he's the next Tom Brady.

I do think there's a chance he might be the next Jimmy Garoppolo. And once upon a time, Bill Belichick was ready to turn the keys to the kingdom over to Jimmy G.




Thanks for having a lot of time on your hands.
 
Well if Stidham’s throwing coach says he’s a star, then he’s definitely Canton-bound.
 
Current NFL win O/U in AFCE.
Pats - 9.5
Bills - 8.5
Jets - 7
Dolp - 6

Some on this thread have the Pats as lacking talent and a 5/6 win team so the Under bet must be awfully tempting. I think the 9.5 number is right as I am expecting this to be a 9 or 10 win team as constructed (and assuming the normal mid level additions) I think some of the young players are ready to step up and BB will scheme this team to some success.

I see a division loaded with unproven QB's. Stidham may be the worst or he may be the best. We have absolutely no idea. With what appears to be a tougher schedule for the AFCE 9 or 10 wins may be good enough to win it.
 
Yes, most QBs and teams would struggle. The problem is Stidham's confidence will be shattered before he gets off the ground. He has nothing to work with. The guy may be super talented, but there will be no way to know that this year. The guy is going to get pummeled, and his confidence will be destroyed before he has any type of chance. The Pats offensive talent is that bad.
Oh please. The running game which was hampered last year by a FB injury to Develin may get him back or we have his replacement and the running game is the same one that won a Super Bowl. The offensive line was hurt by Andrews injury last year and if some of the injured draft class of 2019 make it,it will continue to be a strength. Hopefully, even though Dante retired, he is just a phone call away to help out...Yes, we are deficient at TE but I see that being addressed. As for WR, Edelman, Harry, Sanu are not street free agents and I see that being addressed in FA or the draft as this team always does. Keep in mind Brady in recent past has locked in on Edelman and Gronk even when double teamed because he didn't trust his rookies. Maybe now, the QB will spread the ball around as Brady did on in his career...
I don't have blinders on but in BB we trust and with special teams a strength and the defense still strong ( Van Noy and Collins loss hurts) we will be okay. A SB favorite? No. A playoff team that could have a QB take big steps, yes.
 
You people really are getting loopy in your isolation. I doubt Stidham can even be an effective back up. Outside of the puff pieces from the people schilling for Kraft and BB, where is this coming from? He played on an exceptionally talented team in Auburn, with a tremendous defense and ran a quasi spread option. His play and stats are unimpressive at best. He had outstanding RBs and a great defense.

The biggest game he ever played in was the 2017 SEC Championship game against a Georgia team that they had crushed a few weeks earlier. In that game he was a pedestrian 16-32 for 145 yards in a game that they scored 7 points!

Sure he lit up Mercer, against LSU 9-26 165 yards! 9-26 against a great defense!

Lets move to 2018.
vs LSU 16-28 128 yards (Loss 22-21)
vs Georgia 25-37 172 yards (Loss 27-10)
vs Alabama 15-32 153 yards (Loss 52-21)

He had maybe the best college RB in 2017 in Kerryon Johnson, he got hurt before the second Georgia game and without him, they got crushed.

If the Pats were playing Liberty University, then yeah, Stidham would be OK. Against an NFL team, PLEASE.....

I wonder what your thoughts on Jimmy Garoppolo were when he was year 2.
 
Oh please. The running game which was hampered last year by a FB injury to Develin may get him back or we have his replacement and the running game is the same one that won a Super Bowl. The offensive line was hurt by Andrews injury last year and if some of the injured draft class of 2019 make it,it will continue to be a strength. Hopefully, even though Dante retired, he is just a phone call away to help out...Yes, we are deficient at TE but I see that being addressed. As for WR, Edelman, Harry, Sanu are not street free agents and I see that being addressed in FA or the draft as this team always does. Keep in mind Brady in recent past has locked in on Edelman and Gronk even when double teamed because he didn't trust his rookies. Maybe now, the QB will spread the ball around as Brady did on in his career...
I don't have blinders on but in BB we trust and with special teams a strength and the defense still strong ( Van Noy and Collins loss hurts) we will be okay. A SB favorite? No. A playoff team that could have a QB take big steps, yes.

Look at the list of 2020 opponents and tell me you really think we're a playoff team. Optimistically I see 6 wins. Try to remember back to the final 5 or so games of last season. The Patriots were awful. That was with Collins, Van Noy, Brady, Shelton, etc.

This defense is not strong. It's old, very slow and not capable of carrying this team. We should have let McCourty walk, and I'd love to see us trade Gilmore if we can get value. Additionally, Hightower is another 30 year old, injury-riddled player, and his best days are behind him.

Outside of White, the rb position is awful. It's obvious the rumors of Michel having a degenerative knee condition were accurate. He looks like he went to the Nkeal Harry / Sanu training center. He's slow, and getting slower. Everybody seemed to know about this guy's knee issues, but the Pats took him in the first round. In BB we trust.

As for the wrs...Edelman has given everything he possibly could, and even at this age, he'd make a quality slot receiver in the right system, but he's not a number one guy. Harry and Sanu will be street free agents eventually. Harry couldn't beat man in college, and he sure isn't going to do it in the NFL. He's slow and worthless as an NFL receiver. He may make a gimmick play here or there because he's big and strong, but as a receiver, he's awful. As for Sanu, I cannot believe we gave up a 2nd round pick for that guy. If that wouldn't have happened, he would be a street free agent right now. He's slower than Harry.

Also, by saying in BB we trust, you are openly acknowledging you do have blinders on. Remember, BB built the present roster (including trading a 2nd for Sanu). A roster that is devoid of young talent (outside of a couple dbs and ol) and completely up against the cap. I have no idea how we have cap problems with this team.
 
Yes, but his spporting cast is as awful as there is in the NFL.

Really? Counting Develin, the Pats have three players on that offense who have been named all pro. We’ll see how much better Harry and a healthy Sanu and Edelman are this season. They desperately need 2 TEs. I’m not seeing an AFC East offense that is better.
 
Really? Counting Develin, the Pats have three players on that offense who have been named all pro. We’ll see how much better Harry and a healthy Sanu and Edelman are this season. They desperately need 2 TEs. I’m not seeing an AFC East offense that is better.

The rb, te and wr group is awful any way you cut it.
 
The Pats have cap problems because of TB and AB. That’s $18m in dead cap hits.
 
The problem is Stidham's confidence will be shattered before he gets off the ground. He has nothing to work with. The guy may be super talented, but there will be no way to know that this year. The guy is going to get pummeled, and his confidence will be destroyed before he has any type of chance. The Pats offensive talent is that bad.
I get it - you're unhappy with the talent the Patriots have to work with on the offensive side of the ball

But I think you might be letting that lead you down a path where you take a pessimistic view of everything.

Unless you know the kid personally, I don't see how you can say with any degree of certainty how Stidham's confidence would be affected by a struggling offense that may or may not have a lot to do with the way he's playing. If the Patriots struggle because no one is getting open and he doesn't have time to throw - ANY QB would struggle under those circumstances. I'm not sure that would ruin the kid for life. I mean, Peyton Manning threw 28 INTs as a rookie on a team that went 3-13, and he seemed to bounce back OK.

Besides, I threw it out there that I thought Garoppolo was a good comp for Stidham. Jimmy G moved the ball fairly effectively in 2016 when he got the chance. Look at the talent he had in the two games he started:

OL: Cam Fleming/Nate Solder, Joe Thuney, David Andrews, Ted Karras, and Marcus Cannon were the starters. Fleming took every snap against Arizona, but Solder took the majority of snaps against Miami. Shaq Mason played sparingly against Arizona, and then split time with Karras against Miami after Garoppolo got hurt and the team needed to run the ball more.

TE: Martellus Bennett played the majority of the snaps, including every play of the Miami game. His backups were Clay Harbor and AJ Derby. Gronkowski did not play in either game.

RB: LaGarrette Blount, James White, DJ Foster, Brandon Bolden. Blount was pretty effective putting the Miami game to bed after Garoppolo got hurt. He was less effective against Arizona.

WR: Julian Edelman, Chris Hogan, Malcolm Mitchell, Danny Amendola, Matthew Slater. Edelman and Hogan played a lot. Mitchell, Amendola, and Slater were part of a rotation. And yes, Matthew Slater played WR in those two games.​

I think you could make a case that the 2016 team had a little more offensive talent than 2020, but other than TE, I don't see any position where you'd say the 2016 team was clearly or significantly better.
 
The rb, te and wr group is awful any way you cut it.

TE for sure - worst in the NFL. RB absolutely no, especially not in the way they use them. WR, not good enough but not awful. We’ll see about this year; it’s March. Injuries (and something else I won’t get into) hampered that offense a lot last year. They lost 3 former all pros to late retirement or injury.
 
I get it - you're unhappy with the talent the Patriots have to work with on the offensive side of the ball

But I think you might be letting that lead you down a path where you take a pessimistic view of everything.

Unless you know the kid personally, I don't see how you can say with any degree of certainty how Stidham's confidence would be affected by a struggling offense that may or may not have a lot to do with the way he's playing. If the Patriots struggle because no one is getting open and he doesn't have time to throw - ANY QB would struggle under those circumstances. I'm not sure that would ruin the kid for life. I mean, Peyton Manning threw 28 INTs as a rookie on a team that went 3-13, and he seemed to bounce back OK.

Besides, I threw it out there that I thought Garoppolo was a good comp for Stidham. Jimmy G moved the ball fairly effectively in 2016 when he got the chance. Look at the talent he had in the two games he started:

OL: Cam Fleming/Nate Solder, Joe Thuney, David Andrews, Ted Karras, and Marcus Cannon were the starters. Fleming took every snap against Arizona, but Solder took the majority of snaps against Miami. Shaq Mason played sparingly against Arizona, and then split time with Karras against Miami after Garoppolo got hurt and the team needed to run the ball more.

TE: Martellus Bennett played the majority of the snaps, including every play of the Miami game. His backups were Clay Harbor and AJ Derby. Gronkowski did not play in either game.

RB: LaGarrette Blount, James White, DJ Foster, Brandon Bolden. Blount was pretty effective putting the Miami game to bed after Garoppolo got hurt. He was less effective against Arizona.

WR: Julian Edelman, Chris Hogan, Malcolm Mitchell, Danny Amendola, Matthew Slater. Edelman and Hogan played a lot. Mitchell, Amendola, and Slater were part of a rotation. And yes, Matthew Slater played WR in those two games.​

I think you could make a case that the 2016 team had a little more offensive talent than 2020, but other than TE, I don't see any position where you'd say the 2016 team was clearly or significantly better.

The 2016 team had much more offensive talent. I'm on Stidham's side and I hope that he does well. He's just been placed in an impossible situation. Following the goat in the Boston media market with absolutely no talent around him to help.

BB created a roster so bad it pushed Brady away and made it nearly impossible for a young qb to come in and succeed.
 
The 2016 team had much more offensive talent. I'm on Stidham's side and I hope that he does well. He's just been placed in an impossible situation. Following the goat in the Boston media market with absolutely no talent around him to help.

BB created a roster so bad it pushed Brady away and made it nearly impossible for a young qb to come in and succeed.

Yeah the drafts haven't been the best lately, and some of the tades/acquisitions have been questionable, and Tom is gone...but maybe hold off on full panic mode until after the draft, after further free agent acquisitions, and after the coming trades.
 
Yeah the drafts haven't been the best lately, and some of the tades/acquisitions have been questionable, and Tom is gone...but maybe hold off on full panic mode until after the draft, after further free agent acquisitions, and after the coming trades.

It's not panic at all. It is an awareness of where we currently stand. Watching how poor this team was offensively at the end of last season, combined with an objective analysis of the talent level on offense, has resulted in a crystal clear understanding of where this franchise is. I don't truly know how it got here, but we're here, and I think the best thing we could do would be to maximize the value of the few assets we have. I would never have resigned McCourty and Slater, and I would trade Gilmore asap as long as the compensation is there.

This team lost 3 out of their final four at home with Brady, Collins, Van Noy and Shelton. There simply is no talent on this team (outside of a couple young dbs and ol). Gut the thing, and start from scratch.

Additionally, we're about to find out if the younger generation of players want to come play for a guy like BB. The thing about Brady that is difficult to place a value on is how many guys were willing to overlook the "strictly business" Patriot Way in order to be in the playoffs every year. How many came to play with the goat? Take away the "guarantee" of a postseason, and how desirable is the Patriots environment? We're about to find out.
 
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