Should the Patriots dumb down the offense for the young WRs

[Deus Irae]

What I think about their abilities is meaningless.

No. What you think about their abilities is of the utmost importance, since you apparently don't think the offense is being designed to play to their strengths. If you're going to make that claim, you have to know what those strengths are.

For example, Harry's obviously not a deep field burner who destroys his opponent with explosion and speed right off the snap, so calling plays for that would run counter to what you're asking. But, unless you know what Harry's strengths are, how can you know whether or not they are being played to?

So what are Harry's strengths that should be getting emphasized? What are Meyers' strengths that should be getting emphasized?

 

[TheAdultintheRoom]

No. What you think about their abilities is of the utmost importance, since you apparently don't think the offense is being designed to play to their strengths. If you're going to make that claim, you have to know what those strengths are.

For example, Harry's obviously not a deep field burner who destroys his opponent with explosion and speed right off the snap, so calling plays for that would run counter to what you're asking. But, unless you know what Harry's strengths are, how can you know whether or not they are being played to?

So what are Harry's strengths that should be getting emphasized? What are Meyers' strengths that should be getting emphasized?

He just knows his team stinks, darn it! That's his God given right as a Bostonian!

 

[bormio]

No. What you think about their abilities is of the utmost importance, since you apparently don't think the offense is being designed to play to their strengths. If you're going to make that claim, you have to know what those strengths are.

For example, Harry's obviously not a deep field burner who destroys his opponent with explosion and speed right off the snap, so calling plays for that would run counter to what you're asking. But, unless you know what Harry's strengths are, how can you know whether or not they are being played to?

So what are Harry's strengths that should be getting emphasized? What are Meyers' strengths that should be getting emphasized?

Actually I do think the coaches are designing it to their strengths. I do think the coaches are game planning with that in mind. Some here think that they should be expected to grasp the entire offense now and be able to execute it - don’t “dumb” it down in other words. It takes time and they will make mistakes. Hopefully they will get better - if they don’t then maybe their talent was misjudged. Meyers seems better than some at YAC, trying to get the ball quickly into his hands and let him work might be useful.

 

[XLIX]

I don’t think it gets much more dumbed down than a slant. This ain’t the PAC-12 anymore, where your sheer size and speed could overwhelm 90% of the future accountants and lawyers on the other side of the ball. At this level, those fellas are bigger, faster, stronger and hungrier.

 

[bormio]

I don’t think it gets much more dumbed down than a slant. This ain’t the PAC-12 anymore, where your sheer size and speed could overwhelm 90% of the future accountants and lawyers on the other side of the ball. At this level, those fellas are bigger, faster, stronger and hungrier.

A lot of college players with talent have poor fundamentals. Heck, the NFL has to teach some QBs how to properly take a snap from under center.

 

[Nehalem]

After one week in this offense AB looked competent.

After a second week of practice, before he was cut, AB was apparently making the Pats D look like Robert Kraft after the police raid his favorite massage parlor.

AB, you know the same guy who got frost bite by forgetting to wear socks when he stuck his feet in a freezer.

Maybe the Patriots WR just suck?

 

[Redman443]

Bottom line is Edelman and Dorsett should be on the same page, and it's troubling Dorsett isn't. Bill should have dumbed down the offense a little since he has been relying on Harry and Meyers to play significant minutes. I don't know where Sanu is with respect to his understanding of this offense.

What was frustrating is the fact that Brady wanted Dorsett to run a sluggo or stop and go route and delivered a good ball but Dorsett ran the wrong route and Brady threw to nobody. That’s inexcusable at this point in the season because Dorsett has been here for 2 years.

 

[LightSkinSmurf]

There is no helping this offense this year. Unless AB comes back, which he isn't. We have to win with trash.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Draft BETTER.

Harry over Deebo?

Harry over Metcalf?

Sony over Chubb?

Sony over Lamar?

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Draft BETTER.

Harry over Deebo?

Harry over Metcalf?

Sony over Chubb?

Sony over Lamar?

Y'awl crack me up when this starts.

I also have to admit a gallows-humor type chuckle when Brady was reportedly shouting "Be more explosive." By the way, that is some SERIOUS dumbing down of what the offense needed to hear.

I got 20 factors in the blender, and I pushed "puree." They include, in no particular order, Time > Tom, Flu > humans, healthy O-line > whatever TF this is, Wynn notwithstanding, Weapons > no weapons, etc. etc. etc.

Which is which and how insurmountable they are remains for the chroniclers to make NFL Films scripts on some time in the future, especially in a "plucky lil championship team wins it despite all odds" recap that makes everybody's Top 100 something. Of course, to make that video, well, we do have to overcome odds .

I know it's crazy, but I'm not writing off the season because we're at 10-2, beat up as this team looks.

And I'm not writing off Michel quite yet for that matter, no matter what gives all the "See I was right!" draftnik guys a Chubb.

That is all.

 

[NashuaPats]

Is there any receiver who failed in the Patriots system and then went on to have success elsewhere? I can't think of any. This crap is way overplayed.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Hey man I usually agree with you but I think you are being a bit pessimistic. Watson has been having good plays just about every game. Sanu is playing hurt right now. Michel is a very good RB. I agree Meyers is very good, sort of out of nowhere from early on.

We are not peaking quite at the right time. Maybe. The right time to peak is in January, so it is frankly hard to tell.

Outside of LaCosse, I think all of these guys are capable of playing better. I’m just going through all of the reasons they’ve struggled to this point. Maybe I am too harsh on Watson...I’ve always been a fan of him as a person but frustrated by him as a player, so there’s some bias there. I didn’t like the signing, so I’ll chalk it up to confirmation bias. No doubt Sanu will be better when he’s healthy, but it’s been disappointing that some plays he hasn’t made have had to do with concentration/coordination. And as for Michel, I agree he’s a good RB and largely defend him. I just wish he could be a really reliable threat as a pass catcher out of the backfield, since that’s one area where the offense could massively improve its disguises, and it seems reasonable that a first round pick with his physical gifts would be able to develop that skill through practice and repetition. Last year it was understandable and not necessary; this year it’s a lot more critical for the entire offense that any player can be versatile in run/pass, and he’s one of the only players with the capability to do so.

 

[fnordcircle]

Nope.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Is there any receiver who failed in the Patriots system and then went on to have success elsewhere? I can't think of any. This crap is way overplayed.

Maybe Brandon Tate, but he was more of a kick returner. He was cut in 2010 and played through 2018. Kind of like Cordarelle Patterson, where he could play WR but wasn’t much of one, but still a serviceable player.

Jacob Hollister has 25 catches and 3 TDs this year. Certainly not a great player, but this is dumpster fire at TE. Always seemed like he could be a red zone threat at the least.

So the short answer is basically no. They haven’t had guys who didn’t cut it in NE but was good somewhere else. The only guy I can think of at any position is Darius Butler, who turned into a pretty good player in Indy despite being cut after two seasons. May have made a difference in that 2011 season where Edelman was playing CB.

Kind of puzzling that Amendola is still playing at a reasonably high level and the team didn’t really consider him, at least according to reports...or even trade for him if possible considering the Lions are going nowhere. He didn’t fail in the Patriots system, but I think it’s regrettable he’s not on the team now.

 

[luuked]

After one week in this offense AB looked competent.

After a second week of practice, before he was cut, AB was apparently making the Pats D look like Robert Kraft after the police raid his favorite massage parlor.

AB, you know the same guy who got frost bite by forgetting to wear socks when he stuck his feet in a freezer.

Maybe the Patriots WR just suck?

HoF level player uses his elite skills to get open instead of relying on scheme and route combinations. Alert the news media.

 

[luuked]

Outside of LaCosse, I think all of these guys are capable of playing better.

I mean he was open multiple times and ignored by Brady for whatever reason. Most notably standing absolutely wide open for a first down on that force to Edelman on a high-low combination. He caught the kind of seam pass later in the game everyone assumed he was here for. And for whatever reason we never went back to it.

In this case there is at least video evidence of him being in position and just not getting a chance. Not much more he anyone can do.

 

[supafly]

Actually I do think the coaches are designing it to their strengths. I do think the coaches are game planning with that in mind. Some here think that they should be expected to grasp the entire offense now and be able to execute it - don’t “dumb” it down in other words. It takes time and they will make mistakes. Hopefully they will get better - if they don’t then maybe their talent was misjudged. Meyers seems better than some at YAC, trying to get the ball quickly into his hands and let him work might be useful.

I disagree that they’re using them all properly, but what do I know? It would seem as though Sanu and Harry should be the physical red zone threats that can also act as possession receivers. Dorsett should be given shallow crossers to showcase his speed as well as other quick stuff, off the line. I’m not sure that they’re designing plays to the strengths of these players.

 

[primetime]

After one week in this offense AB looked competent.

After a second week of practice, before he was cut, AB was apparently making the Pats D look like Robert Kraft after the police raid his favorite massage parlor.

AB, you know the same guy who got frost bite by forgetting to wear socks when he stuck his feet in a freezer.

Maybe the Patriots WR just suck?

Brown's got a legitimate claim for being among the best five receivers to ever play the game. Like Moss, he could have walked onto any team and thrived.

 

[primetime]

Is there any receiver who failed in the Patriots system and then went on to have success elsewhere? I can't think of any. This crap is way overplayed.

Yeah, but also there aren't many receivers who fail in any one team's system and go on to thrive. It's not like the Patriots have plucked many receivers or tight ends off other team's trash heaps and polished them into gold either. The closest thing is probably David Patten years ago, though even he had 40 catches on a bad Browns team in 2000 despite playing behind Dennis Northcutt and Kevin Johnson. I guess Reche Caldwell is another example, lol.

Otherwise, guys like Amendola, Welker, Dorsett, Hogan, Patterson, Lloyd, Stallworth, and LaFell were pretty much as good for the Patriots as they were for their previous teams once you adjust for Brady and opportunity, and then in relevant cases went on to play similarly for other teams when they left.

The guys cited as examples that the Patriots offense is more complicated because "even these All Pros couldn't cut it" like Chad Johnson, Thomas, Wayne, and Holt were all at or near the end of the line physically and mentally. The guys who started with the Patriots mostly just weren't any good. Which is fine, most players who get drafted aren't any good.

The idea that the Patriots have a uniquely complicated offense by NFL standards (or are vastly different than other teams) is just not true. They have Tom Brady, and that's the difference.

 

[PatsFan2]

Harry's injury in TC will really hurt his development this year another wasted year for a Pats First Rounder all too familiar. It's obvious he's struggling not only with the mental but also the physical part of the game that gets fixed with time OTA's and TC. Yeah we should have kept Gordon and Thomas both would have given us more than Harry this year period! Very bad roster management by BB at a critical position to the Offense. I think they are going to have to change something or go with a familiar personnel package minus Harry. He's kinda useless right now not his fault but it's obvious Meyers is better and Meyers might be creeping up on Dorsett for PT. So I think they should roll with Edelman - Sanu and Meyers at WR going forward sprinkle in a little Dorsett from time to time Brady seems to trust those guys. We are just too far in the game to be clueless on Offense taking Harry out of the equation should help the O this year and him next year.