Solution at TE

[p8ryts]

Izzo didn't play in the fourth preseason game and only caught passes in the first.

He played with the starters early in the second game and then was hurt.

And the year off hurts, not helps.

But he will be a contributor!

Oops. Faulty memory, sorry. Still hoping.

 

[Pape]

Just quit while your behind.

1. Even with his limitations receiving Allen did a solid job here. He helped the offense as a whole with his run and pass blocking.

2. 3.5 is quite a bit for a blocking TE. Prob worth closer to 2 imo. Who knows how much we may have increased an offer had the Gronk news come out sooner.

3. We tied up our TE2 spot the past 2 years, didn’t seem to hurt us that much. The OL/run blocking was a huge success this past season especially in the playoffs. Allen did his part in this aspect.

4. Besides blocking? Nothing. But you can’t just say he added nothing to our offense if he gave us good run and pass blocking. Guys like him don’t get the credit but they still play a part in the machine.

5. 3 plus mil isn’t paltry when your up against the cap and you have a prospect in Izzo in the fold, and on a cheaper rookie deal. Like I said earlier, who knows what would’ve happened had Gronk retired prior to Allen signing with MIA. Maybe BB would’ve matched or come close to have the veteran back on the team.

why would i quit? Because of what those guys are saying? They are completely off the wall, latching onto Dwayne Allen's nutsack like its a clutch of pearls. I disagree with all this hand wringing and whining about the value of Dwayne Allen. He was an average blocker. Just about anyone could have done the job that he did. But somehow because he wore the Pats jersey he was "one of the best"? Those guys continually over-inflate his value as a blocker, conflating him to one of the best in the game. But come on man, people should expect more from the TE2 position.

3.0m is a lot for a blocker. A 3.8 cap hit was too much for a player who was not an offensive lineman to spend the entire game blocking people. So yeah, we tied up our TE2 position, but at what cost in terms of production compared to tight ends with a better grasp of the NE system could have brought? He certainly brought a lot to the table in 52 with his two plays from scrimmage ...

But at least you are honest in admitting he really brought nothing else to the table.

Last year his cap hit of 3.8 put him at the tenth highest on the team. Was he worth it? hell no. Did they try to reduce that number? yes. He said no. That's why hes gone to Miami for 3.25 a year.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

why would i quit? Because of what those guys are saying? They are completely off the wall, latching onto Dwayne Allen's nutsack like its a clutch of pearls. I disagree with all this hand wringing and whining about the value of Dwayne Allen. He was an average blocker. Just about anyone could have done the job that he did. But somehow because he wore the Pats jersey he was "one of the best"? Those guys continually over-inflate his value as a blocker, conflating him to one of the best in the game. But come on man, people should expect more from the TE2 position.

3.0m is a lot for a blocker. A 3.8 cap hit was too much for a player who was not an offensive lineman to spend the entire game blocking people. So yeah, we tied up our TE2 position, but at what cost in terms of production compared to tight ends with a better grasp of the NE system could have brought? He certainly brought a lot to the table in 52 with his two plays from scrimmage ...

But at least you are honest in admitting he really brought nothing else to the table.

Last year his cap hit of 3.8 put him at the tenth highest on the team. Was he worth it? hell no. Did they try to reduce that number? yes. He said no. That's why hes gone to Miami for 3.25 a year.

Miami saw first hand what this guy brings as a blocker. If your gonna stand by those comments in bold I suggest you click on the rewatch threads after each game. Breaks down individual plays such as the one in the link. Personally gave me newfound respect for Allen’s blocking, which is anything but average.

 

[Pape]

Miami saw first hand what this guy brings as a blocker. If your gonna stand by those comments in bold I suggest you click on the rewatch threads after each game. Breaks down individual plays such as the one in the link. Personally gave me newfound respect for Allen’s blocking, which is anything but average.

Anything but average, for what? One game?

Now show me the games where he made plays beyond blocking, something a te2 should do. Where he caught 5 or 6 passes. Show me his second touchdown as a patriot. You got two years worth of games to pull from....

Oooh. Thats right. Doesn't exist.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

Anything but average, for what? One game?

Now show me the games where he made plays beyond blocking, something a te2 should do. Where he caught 5 or 6 passes. Show me his second touchdown as a patriot. You got two years worth of games to pull from....

Oooh. Thats right. Doesn't exist.

I’m not arguing the receiving aspect of his game. I agreed with you that he offered nothing as a receiver. It’s your analysis that he brings nothing to the table/his blocking is average (anyone could do it) that I take issue with.

 

[Pape]

I’m not arguing the receiving aspect of his game. I agreed with you that he offered nothing as a receiver. It’s your analysis that he brings nothing to the table/his blocking is average (anyone could do it) that I take issue with.

That's fine. Disagree with me. You see what you want to see vis a vis his abilities on the field.

But really, is it all that special? A special talent that no one else could bring to the table? No, its not. And that's the whole point. Its also why he's not here anymore, cost vs value. The Patriots c replaced him with someone to do the same job for less money. That's the definition of an average player.

So, if you want to die on the mountain defending Dwayne Allen and his "super star" blocking ability go right ahead, have at it.

But in the end he's gone. No way near enough production to warrant the money he wanted/was paid in New England.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I still have hope that izzo can be our blocking tight end with a few catches sprinkled in during 2019.

We add a guy like Fant or sternburger to challenge the deep seam and suddenly the routes hogan ran last year open up again.

Hopefully izzo excels in the strength and conditioning program. He has to be able to blow up defenders trying to set the edge so Michel can run wild in order to have a spot on this roster.

 

[mosslost]

I still have hope that izzo can be our blocking tight end with a few catches sprinkled in during 2019.

We add a guy like Fant or sternburger to challenge the deep seam and suddenly the routes hogan ran last year open up again.

Hopefully izzo excels in the strength and conditioning program. He has to be able to blow up defenders trying to set the edge so Michel can run wild in order to have a spot on this roster.

Gronk.

 

[DW Toys]

Agreed although I think you're under-estimating their value. I think Sternberger and Knox go in the 2nd. Warring will probably last until the 3rd.

Cousins, Knox had limited production. What am I missing here?

2017 was his first season at TE. Has limited experience blocking in-line. You can tell he is still processing too slowly in the run game, it’s just not familiar to him yet. More of a straight line guy, lacks some agility and RAC ability. Isn’t going to juke anyone, or break any tackles.

Overview: Raw, size/speed specimen that will likely rise up boards during the combine. Knox has very limited experience at Tight End, less than 30 career receptions and ZERO touchdowns (as of writing).

I am not a LeCosse fan, but he seems better

DW Toys

 

[DW Toys]

I still have hope that izzo can be our blocking tight end with a few catches sprinkled in during 2019.

We add a guy like Fant or sternburger to challenge the deep seam and suddenly the routes hogan ran last year open up again.

Hopefully izzo excels in the strength and conditioning program. He has to be able to blow up defenders trying to set the edge so Michel can run wild in order to have a spot on this roster.

Cousin,
Here is my off the wall take on a TE in this Draft. Convert J.J. Arcega-Whiteside Stanford there. He is a superb blocker. He is a Big Mac or two away from Giants TE Evan Ingram.
It has been suggested he would be a great H Back.....but he blocks.

• Extreme body control in the air and repositioning for the contested reception
• Functional NFL-caliber speed
• Plucks the ball away from his body — watching the tape shows a consistent “hands catcher” who extends to make tough catches
• Plays much bigger than an already large frame suggests — looks 6-foot-5, 240 pounds against collegiate cornerbacks
• High football IQ to digest an NFL playbook and adapt his game, take to coaching — dummies don’t get into Stanford. Played in a pro-style system
• Displays enough short-area quickness to get separation on intermediate routes
• Basketball background shows in box-out/jump-ball situations
• Catch radius is incredible
• Not afraid to run through defenders and bull for tough yardage, particularly when the stripe is in reach
• NFL starter potential in short order — won’t have a lengthy learning curve at the next level

14 of his 28 touchdowns came in 2018
Arcega-Whiteside may become a tight end at the next level.


“Some guys joke about that – my strength coach says I’m a biscuit away from being a tight end – but that hasn’t really come up with teams at all,” he said. “But if someone wants to draft me I’ll play anywhere you want me to play, coach.”


No you can look at TE's that have less Fan Fare like Warring or Dax Raymond a few rounds down.
DW Toys

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Cousin,
Here is my off the wall take on a TE in this Draft. Convert J.J. Arcega-Whiteside Stanford there. He is a superb blocker. He is a Big Mac or two away from Giants TE Evan Ingram.
It has been suggested he would be a great H Back.....but he blocks.

• Extreme body control in the air and repositioning for the contested reception
• Functional NFL-caliber speed
• Plucks the ball away from his body — watching the tape shows a consistent “hands catcher” who extends to make tough catches
• Plays much bigger than an already large frame suggests — looks 6-foot-5, 240 pounds against collegiate cornerbacks
• High football IQ to digest an NFL playbook and adapt his game, take to coaching — dummies don’t get into Stanford. Played in a pro-style system
• Displays enough short-area quickness to get separation on intermediate routes
• Basketball background shows in box-out/jump-ball situations
• Catch radius is incredible
• Not afraid to run through defenders and bull for tough yardage, particularly when the stripe is in reach
• NFL starter potential in short order — won’t have a lengthy learning curve at the next level

14 of his 28 touchdowns came in 2018
Arcega-Whiteside may become a tight end at the next level.


“Some guys joke about that – my strength coach says I’m a biscuit away from being a tight end – but that hasn’t really come up with teams at all,” he said. “But if someone wants to draft me I’ll play anywhere you want me to play, coach.”


No you can look at TE's that have less Fan Fare like Warring or Dax Raymond a few rounds down.
DW Toys

Well, I have to admit, as I wide receiver the guy’s tape is bland and almost completely uninspiring.

But after a couple Big Macs and a red shirt year that includes an offseason in the strength and conditioning program, could he morph into Aaron Hernandez part 2?

Possibly? If he has the right attitude and work ethic we could have something.

I know I would love to see us sign Fitzpatrick, the miss state qb and use the practice squad/red shirt year to turn him into a wide receiver.

 

[manxman2601]

Cousins, Knox had limited production. What am I missing here?

2017 was his first season at TE. Has limited experience blocking in-line. You can tell he is still processing too slowly in the run game, it’s just not familiar to him yet. More of a straight line guy, lacks some agility and RAC ability. Isn’t going to juke anyone, or break any tackles.

Overview: Raw, size/speed specimen that will likely rise up boards during the combine. Knox has very limited experience at Tight End, less than 30 career receptions and ZERO touchdowns (as of writing).

I am not a LeCosse fan, but he seems better

DW Toys

He has genuine TE1 athleticism, is a good blocker and he’s a more than a short field receiver. He had three quality WRs in his offence and he just didn’t get fed.

 

[manxman2601]

Cousin,
Here is my off the wall take on a TE in this Draft. Convert J.J. Arcega-Whiteside Stanford there. He is a superb blocker. He is a Big Mac or two away from Giants TE Evan Ingram.
It has been suggested he would be a great H Back.....but he blocks.

• Extreme body control in the air and repositioning for the contested reception
• Functional NFL-caliber speed
• Plucks the ball away from his body — watching the tape shows a consistent “hands catcher” who extends to make tough catches
• Plays much bigger than an already large frame suggests — looks 6-foot-5, 240 pounds against collegiate cornerbacks
• High football IQ to digest an NFL playbook and adapt his game, take to coaching — dummies don’t get into Stanford. Played in a pro-style system
• Displays enough short-area quickness to get separation on intermediate routes
• Basketball background shows in box-out/jump-ball situations
• Catch radius is incredible
• Not afraid to run through defenders and bull for tough yardage, particularly when the stripe is in reach
• NFL starter potential in short order — won’t have a lengthy learning curve at the next level

14 of his 28 touchdowns came in 2018
Arcega-Whiteside may become a tight end at the next level.


“Some guys joke about that – my strength coach says I’m a biscuit away from being a tight end – but that hasn’t really come up with teams at all,” he said. “But if someone wants to draft me I’ll play anywhere you want me to play, coach.”


No you can look at TE's that have less Fan Fare like Warring or Dax Raymond a few rounds down.
DW Toys

My off the wall suggestion for a TE, well a move TE anyway is Jalen Hurd. He would need to add 10-15 pounds and improve as a blocker but he’s a 6’5” slot receiver and former RB. I really like as a developmental Aaron Hernandez type. He ran a 4.66 which isn’t great for a WR so maybe a bit of added bulk and a move to TE might be the way to go.

 

[doesntmatter1]

I feel very strongly that Dawson Knox will be a Patriot.

 

[mosslost]

https://ontonixqcm.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/math.jpg

Antonio Gates is a free agent??

 

[manxman2601]

I feel very strongly that Dawson Knox will be a Patriot.

I hope so. I really like the relationship between draft value and upside. Outstanding TE1 size and athleticism for a 2nd round pick.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Cousin,
Here is my off the wall take on a TE in this Draft. Convert J.J. Arcega-Whiteside Stanford there. He is a superb blocker. He is a Big Mac or two away from Giants TE Evan Ingram.
It has been suggested he would be a great H Back.....but he blocks.

• Extreme body control in the air and repositioning for the contested reception
• Functional NFL-caliber speed
• Plucks the ball away from his body — watching the tape shows a consistent “hands catcher” who extends to make tough catches
• Plays much bigger than an already large frame suggests — looks 6-foot-5, 240 pounds against collegiate cornerbacks
• High football IQ to digest an NFL playbook and adapt his game, take to coaching — dummies don’t get into Stanford. Played in a pro-style system
• Displays enough short-area quickness to get separation on intermediate routes
• Basketball background shows in box-out/jump-ball situations
• Catch radius is incredible
• Not afraid to run through defenders and bull for tough yardage, particularly when the stripe is in reach
• NFL starter potential in short order — won’t have a lengthy learning curve at the next level

14 of his 28 touchdowns came in 2018
Arcega-Whiteside may become a tight end at the next level.


“Some guys joke about that – my strength coach says I’m a biscuit away from being a tight end – but that hasn’t really come up with teams at all,” he said. “But if someone wants to draft me I’ll play anywhere you want me to play, coach.”


No you can look at TE's that have less Fan Fare like Warring or Dax Raymond a few rounds down.
DW Toys

He's 6'2 223 and just ran a 4.49 at his pro day. He's a starting X receiver all day. He has more value there than he'll ever have at move TE.

 

[Zuma]

FWIW SBNATION combined all popular mock 1st round picks this year and the concensus at #32 is ...

NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS
Consensus: Irv Smith Jr.

The top 2019 NFL mock drafts in one chart | NFL Offseason Guide 2019

 

[SBLIII]

FWIW SBNATION combined all popular mock 1st round picks this year and the concensus at #32 is ...

NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS
Consensus: Irv Smith Jr.

The top 2019 NFL mock drafts in one chart | NFL Offseason Guide 2019

That would be a massive reach imo. Not really impressed.

 

[mgteich]

That would be a massive reach imo. Not really impressed.

I understand that you don't think that we should draft Smith at 32. However, when calling someone a "massive reach", we are usually talking about more than personal opinion. Most analysts have Smith in the 20's.